Mafiascum.net

@gibus, what was your aim in voting me? You have not questioned me about anything, you just parked your vote and it feels like a really lazy way to not have to scumhunt today because you haven't asked anyone anything, or engaged with the other people in your scumpool. You even said I haven't done anything scummy. So what exactly are you voting me for?

You said "for pressure." Okay, nausi already pressure voted me. I posted only once in the thread after that, so it should be obvious the "pressure" wasn't going to achieve anything. Like my inactivity was clearly not the result of people not paying attention to me in this thread, so why did/do you think that paying attention to me would change my lack of activity after nausi's pressure vote was already shown to not have an effect?

In post 1389, gibus wrote:I'm curious about her thoughts on Fred after he claimed, people other than votato and FF, wave's flip, no NK.

I think I covered #1. Still catching up fully so will get to #2.

#3 - wave's flip made me reevaluate my hesitation on a freddie wagon. I originally thought freddie was a counterwagon to scum!waves, which would imply town!freddie, but that wasn't the case since waves was town. I also have to reevaluate my reads on Tuxedo/osuka since I was basing those partly on association with counterwagoning freddie.

#4 - I'd prefer to not give scum all the cards. Several people have already speculated why there's no NK, I see no reason to keep speculating on it when it should be pretty obvious what no NK implies.

Literally speculation on no NK just helps scum. They already know what column of the grid we're in, so us giving them more info on what or who blocked them or what or who didn't block them only helps them narrow down what row we're in too. On the other hand, town has little to no info on where we are in the grid. Even a PR may not know what row we're in. They have no idea if there's another PR in the setup (excluding masons), and we also have no idea which column we're in because we don't know if there's a mafia PR.

In post 1422, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1166, Freddiethelady wrote:Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!

In post 1389, gibus wrote:How is pressure voting sus? We need content from everyone before we lynch.

I'm curious about her thoughts on Fred after he claimed, people other than votato and FF, wave's flip, no NK.
I don't like #1308 because it looks like confbias at that point (he was scumreading FF & osuka for a while).

No, votato wasn't scumreading fish before the whole D1 lynch fiasco. Fish wasn't in his lynchpool for D1 at all. Votato only started putting fish into his scumpile after fish called freddie scum.

that's not true, i said ff and yourself could be scum

In post 1423, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1422, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1166, Freddiethelady wrote:Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!

I forgot to talk about this one, just more "cluelessness" from freddie that I don't buy. Once again, multiple people straight up told her that waves was dead, they told her why it was bad to claim after the lynch happened, and then she keeps acting like she will be lynched.

Theres no scum motivation either. It's a fuck up. I don't see why it's ai. I'm pretty sure she thought she'd be night killed for claiming town, because she figured everyone believed her, and now her secret was out.

Why are you speaking for Freddie?

Is this more of your super secret rl relationship that you know telepathically what they are thinking?

@gibus Here's what I mean by "votato wasn't scumreading osuka & ff until they started pushing freddie," the osuka edition. I already mentioned the fish edition in 1422.

Here's votato's early game progression on ironcat/osuka slot.

In post 191, votato wrote:so if everyone posted youd suspect everyone? i disagree. I dont have any very strong scum reads yet. I cant yet tell if ironcat is very noob or scummy. But i get noobtown vibes from feather, gibus, and freddie.

In post 295, votato wrote:VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

In post 316, votato wrote:town: gibus, feathers, votato
likely town: brass, freddie, formerfish
null: lilith
possible scum: iamironcat
scum:copykat

its very unlikely that the felines are the scumpair and that i've solved this early, but as a dog person it would bring me great pleasure. i would totally buy brass distancing or bussing here.

In post 371, votato wrote:

In post 357, lilith2013 wrote:@votato, can you explain why you think gibus is newbtown based on this other game? I read some of his posts there and he comes across as .... surprisingly un-newb there.

oh i missed this. im not sure if i can, since its ongoing. i agree that he comes off as newbie-er here, so could be playing it up to get brownie points.

i agree that ironcat is being really strange. but some of it is definitely due to language barrier. i also really dislike people who are so formally logical, so it could be a personal bias thing on my end.

^ Up until this point, ironcat has mainly been pushing me and fish. Votato's read on ironcat is "scummy but I think it might just be a playstyle thing," so not actually pushing ironcat, he admits it's not a strong scumread, etc.

The following posts occur after osuka enters and calls freddie scum.

In post 876, votato wrote:hmm i havent gone back to re-read the ISO on gibus. but my memory doesnt ping me. If people are really serious about that wagon ill go reread, but I think its not an optimal lynch for today. If gibus is scum i fully anticipate being able to figure it out with a high degree of confidence well before lylo. i think my lynchpool atm is copykat/tuxedo or ironcat/osuka. I could maybe be persuaded about lilith (maybe), or formerfish (probably not today though).

In post 1021, votato wrote:osuka sinks further into the scumpile. calling people's posts shit is neither a way to win them over nor to prove a case. seems like some AtE bullshit, except it isnt remotely appealing. what are your thoughts on brass/wave here osuka?

Votato has changed his tone from "I don't know if ironcat is scummy, could just be noobtown" to having osuka in his preferred lynches as well as calling him scummy. The tone of his read on this slot has changed significantly, from a kind of detached "eh could just be noobtown," casual stance, to "osuka is in my lynchpool," "osuka sinks further into the scumpile," "AtE bullshit," all much more aggressive language than before. So there's a difference in the way that votato is acting in regard to his scumread on this slot, from before vs after osuka starts hard pushing freddie. I think what I'm trying to say here is that the scumread suddenly appears to be a scumread after osuka starts pushing freddie.

pedit: You had fish as likely town in the reads post I quoted above. He's not in your preferred lynchpools in your lynchpools post 876 either. The same applies here, where you didn't start having a scumread where you engaged with/pushed that slot until after fish started pushing freddie.

In post 1431, Formerfish wrote:Is this more of your super secret rl relationship that you know telepathically what they are thinking?

Haha that's honestly not very far off

In post 1425, lilith2013 wrote: You said "for pressure." Okay, nausi already pressure voted me. I posted only once in the thread after that, so it should be obvious the "pressure" wasn't going to achieve anything. Like my inactivity was clearly not the result of people not paying attention to me in this thread, so why did/do you think that paying attention to me would change my lack of activity after nausi's pressure vote was already shown to not have an effect?

UNVOTE: lilith2k13
Your response to Nauci's pressure vote looked unsatisfactory, and I confused your inactivity with lurking as scum. I agree, my vote was hasty.

In post 1429, votato wrote:

In post 1423, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1422, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1166, Freddiethelady wrote:Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!

I forgot to talk about this one, just more "cluelessness" from freddie that I don't buy. Once again, multiple people straight up told her that waves was dead, they told her why it was bad to claim after the lynch happened, and then she keeps acting like she will be lynched.

Theres no scum motivation either. It's a fuck up. I don't see why it's ai. I'm pretty sure she thought she'd be night killed for claiming town, because she figured everyone believed her, and now her secret was out.

Um... what?

Why would town!freddie be NKed for claiming town in a way that most people in the thread thought was scummy?
Further, why would she be NKed for claiming VT when scum are going to be PR-hunting?
What incentive would scum have at all to kill town!freddie rather than try to keep her alive until LYLO so they can autowin by mislynching her?

In post 1430, Formerfish wrote:Why are you speaking for Freddie?

Also this

In post 1434, gibus wrote:

In post 1425, lilith2013 wrote: You said "for pressure." Okay, nausi already pressure voted me. I posted only once in the thread after that, so it should be obvious the "pressure" wasn't going to achieve anything. Like my inactivity was clearly not the result of people not paying attention to me in this thread, so why did/do you think that paying attention to me would change my lack of activity after nausi's pressure vote was already shown to not have an effect?

UNVOTE: lilith2k13
Your response to Nauci's pressure vote looked unsatisfactory, and I confused your inactivity with lurking as scum. I agree, my vote was hasty.

Why are you scumreading Tuxedo and formerfish?

Now might be a good time to explain why votes on a player who hasn't checked in after a no kill is a bad idea. There you go, explained.

In post 1418, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1416, gibus wrote:@lilith I never claimed.

That's why I put the word "claimed" in quotes.

In post 84, gibus wrote:Aren't we all vanilla townies.. VOTE: feathers

What exactly were you trying to say here then? Why did you vote feathers?

I made a poor attempt at sarcasm, trying to say that she could claim VT as scum and that it meant nothing. It was an RVS vote

because she doesn't get the basic fundamentals of the game. This is a newbie game. Freddie played two games irl prior to this and repped into 1997 and is struggling to catch on

In post 1440, votato wrote:because she doesn't get the basic fundamentals of the game. This is a newbie game. Freddie played two games irl prior to this and repped into 1997 and is struggling to catch on

In post 1417, lilith2013 wrote:For freddie to be town here, there are so many exact pieces that have to not line up in her thought process for her to claim after a hammer on someone else.

Here's the sequence of events:
1) she put wave to L-1 and knew to announce it
2) I declared intent to hammer and asked wave to claim
3) wave claimed
4) wave voted freddie to L-1
5) fish fakehammered
6) votato said in 1088 that wasn't a hammer, he was already on the wagon
7) literally no one has asked freddie to claim thus far. votato even says no need to claim since no one has declared intent to hammer.
8) fish hammers wave and it's clear they are discussing wave having already been lynched.
9) freddie claims VT.

so freddie claimed:
- after freddie herself was the one who declared waves at L-1
- after she sees someone hammering waves
- after no one told her to claim or declared intent to hammer her
- after votato specifically said not to claim
- after multiple people are clearly discussing waves already being dead

She has to have not seen

all of these things

in order for town!freddie to think she needs to claim, which makes literally no sense because she was the one who put waves at L-1 in the first place. If she was confused about the gamestate, she could have even asked, "am I supposed to claim?" to make sure. There's literally no need for her to claim. at all.

so why claim then?

for towncred. like, look at me being so noobtown that I claim even when I'm not the lynch. I can't even tell when someone else's wagon was hammered! That can't be real.

Vota, do you disagree with this chain of events?

In post 1432, lilith2013 wrote:You had fish as likely town in the reads post I quoted above. He's not in your preferred lynchpools in your lynchpools post 876 either. The same applies here, where you didn't start having a serious scumread where you engaged with/pushed that slot until after fish started pushing freddie.

This was @votato if it wasn't clear. Votato's reads post where fish is in his townleans is 316; 876 is where votato vocalizes preferred lynches.

In post 1421, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1219, Formerfish wrote:And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

i mostly started suspecting ff later. The gambit reeked to me

In post 1443, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1421, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1219, Formerfish wrote:And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

except notice that no pressure was actually applied. Where were the votes?

ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

In post 1445, votato wrote:

In post 1443, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1421, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1219, Formerfish wrote:And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

except notice that no pressure was actually applied. Where were the votes?

I'm not saying that pressure was applied, I'm saying why would fish bring anyone's attention to osuka's inconsistent read on him if he didn't have to?

In post 1437, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1434, gibus wrote:

In post 1425, lilith2013 wrote: You said "for pressure." Okay, nausi already pressure voted me. I posted only once in the thread after that, so it should be obvious the "pressure" wasn't going to achieve anything. Like my inactivity was clearly not the result of people not paying attention to me in this thread, so why did/do you think that paying attention to me would change my lack of activity after nausi's pressure vote was already shown to not have an effect?

UNVOTE: lilith2k13
Your response to Nauci's pressure vote looked unsatisfactory, and I confused your inactivity with lurking as scum. I agree, my vote was hasty.

Why are you scumreading Tuxedo and formerfish?

I'm scumreading Tuxedo's slot because of Copy.
I don't understand how FF found Copy , and find it AI that he ignored my question.
His theory about how Fred was made to claim by his scum partner as a form of defence for not being the NK seems like a stretch because it is a really bad move by scum and I can see a newbtown make that kind of a mistake. But his insistence makes me wonder if he is the scum partner of Fred, and after successfully bussing and lynching Fred on D2, shift the focus on another townie for a mislynch to win the game. How is FF defending Copy different from votato defending Fred? Votato claims to know Fred IRL so that townread seems more plausible. I also find it weird that in the early stages of the game, FF says Copy's predecessor was statistically more probable to be scum, but still eliminates him in his PoE.

In post 1447, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1445, votato wrote:

In post 1443, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1421, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1219, Formerfish wrote:And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

except notice that no pressure was actually applied. Where were the votes?

I'm not saying that pressure was applied, I'm saying why would fish bring anyone's attention to osuka's inconsistent read on him if he didn't have to?

distancing? There was little risk involved given the focus was elsewhere. Why did you fight Maria in gnr?