Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

UNVOTE:

I would like time to think if scum!osuka would go all-in on Truth here before he claims

and also there's like 3 people who haven't said anything about the osuka wagon lately

[popopopopopopo]

eh i think that exchange was scummy tbh

hes locked in, feels like he can't get off it at this point, this is what he's going with

the logic behind his push feels off, i know i said it was NAI before but like when truth says something like "im a mason miller, need docs on me tonight" it shows he fundamentally misunderstands the game, yes, but it isn't scummy, and the way osuka continues to insist that it is makes less and less sense from a town mindset

[GuiltyLion]

completely agree with popopopopopopopopopopopopopop

it also feels to me like Osuka's trying not to spew by not giving any holistic reads on the game state nor most slots individually

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why is osuka siding so hard with Blair here and then voting for CSF when CSF isn't Scummy?

CSF is scummy though

write a spicy narrative for why you think i'm scum

Those of you who are scum, good job getting my wagon to this point

Those of you who are town, please get in your head that you evidently can’t read me

Why should we townread you

I'd like to see these answered

[osuka]

Why is osuka siding so hard with Blair here and then voting for CSF when CSF isn't Scummy?

CSF is scummy though

write a spicy narrative for why you think i'm scum

I'd like to see these answered[/quote]
everything until 221 is shallow but im willing to forgive that since the beginning of the game can be slow
221 you have a tr-ish on me
227 you sound suspicious of truth
231 iioa
276 you think me vs quick is tvt
499 tr on glitch
537 is bad justification for a vote that feels is just meant to put more momentum behind a wagon
562 you still mention me vs quick as tvt
1054 you say that your read on nauci actually flipped
1147 you vote me

you literally never engaged my slot directly and the only mentions of anything resembling a read on me implied or meant I was town in your opinion. this strikes me as very opportunistic for a few reasons:
1. glitch made a big case on you in 1090 and put you at 3 votes (second most at the time)
2. you never expressed a scumread on me
3. GL had voteparked me, so you wouldn't be The Only Vote™ on me

of particular note is the fact that norwi voted me not a minute after that,

and

he was previously on your wagon (distancing?)

is that spicy enough for you?

[osuka]

unfortunately I can't really tell you why you should townread me other than the fact that i'm town and i've been playing wincon, so i can tell you for a fact that everything i've done this game was from a town mindset. i can't read myself _and_ i got a role PM that tells me my alignment so I'm doubly biased, that's a fucking loaded question

[Glitch]

I am trying hard to follow and understand the push against osuka, for real, but it's just not clicking with me. I've had him null for so long and still going through his iso there's so many things that pull me both directions I just have such a null read on him. His lack of voting is sketch at best, and yet these posts are spot on:

The only noteworthy read of Osuka right now is CSF!Scum. And he's basically done nothing to convince us of it other than say "he be playing scummy". And saying scum is on his wagon. (no indication of who though)

i honestly don't know for sure who exactly is scum on the wagon, but i can tell you for a fact that it either started with scum motivation, or was put into overdrive by scum. As previously pointed out by someone other than me, wagons rarely pick up this quickly and sustain themselves for this long without some scum motivation

Should we hammer osuka now? I would like to get to the next day.

Reminder for doctors to protect me please!

do you see this shit? this is a scumpost

there is a wagon most people are happy with on L-1 and there are days until deadline AND there is a very active discussion happening around said wagon. If this is not a very deliberate attempt at ending discussion early, i don't know what is

I don't think there's enough valid content from osuka to make a definite judgement that he is scum, while there is even more reason now to suspect Cat Scratch. Can we break down CSF's progression on osuka?

Spoiler: Cat Scratch Fever on osuka

lol this game is going to be a clash of egos huh

I'm townreading Norway and I think osuka is townish. Still think Quick is prob town but he seems to have trouble getting his point across

VOTE: guiltylion

I think Quick and Osuka are TvT right now, and this back and forth is rapidly growing tiring to follow. Why don't we all hug it out and vote GuiltyLion or something

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

Based on their back and forth, I think they both believe in their pushes. I can also understand why they each scumread the other even though I disagree with it.

They're both independently towny as well. Quick has demonstrated that he has an unusual process of scumhunting, and I think his process is hard to fake.

I'm gut townreading osuka.

Why is osuka scummy for thinking you could be lying about being a mason but not wanting to take the risk of pushing you? A lot of people have expressed disbelief in your mason claim yet no one is pushing for your lynch off the top of my head.

Holy shit

So here there is a push for more votes on guilty. He's never called guilty even scummy tho? But he's voted for him and called for others to vote him.

Uh yeah, I saw a shitshow of what I thought was TvT and did not want Osuka and Quick to continue arguing back and forth with each other and instead combine our votes to form a pressure wagon on someone who was conspicuously missing.

Then he votes for me, with no explanation of either his original guilty read or his new vote on me. He provided a reason for the vote on me when I pressed him.

If you want an explanation, you can just ask instead of making assumptions. Is this a newbie game where we scumread people for not explaining things?

I thought Guilty's meta defense of himself was convincing enough. His posting rate is higher as town than scum, and his contributions here pushed me to think he's town.

As of page 35, I don't scumread Nauci anymore

holy shit haha

and

I

thought i was late to this game

?

I was effectively inactive from this game for the last few days and was catching up

this is a completely meaningless post

VOTE: osuka

I think I prefer this over Glitch, who I'm not sure isn't just new town who scumreads people for not explaining reads.

Mainly sheeping Nauci's metacase tbh. I also think him forgetting to use his vote is scum indicative

UNVOTE:

I would like time to think if scum!osuka would go all-in on Truth here before he claims

and also there's like 3 people who haven't said anything about the osuka wagon lately

Let's break each quote down.

• 221 - Early game towered on osuka
  
• 276 - Reads the Quick v Osuka fight as TvT
  
• 280 - osuka is Towny independent of the Quick v Osuka fight,
  AND
  is Towny because he’s TvT,
  AND
  on top of that he is gut reading osuka as town
  
• 562 - Reaffirms TvT read on osuka/Quick
  
• Absolutely nothing
  from CSF regarding osuka for the next 500+ posts
  
• 1107 - osuka throws a little shade in Cat’s direction
  
• 1118 - osuka throws more shade at Cat
  
• 1147 -
  Cat Scratch out of the blue votes for osuka
  openly sheeping Nauci and for not using his vote.
  
• 1425 - Unvotes when the wagon gets serious and there’s an actual chance of lynching osuka.

This reads as shit. Clear TR on osuka while it's easy up to halfway through the game, then drop off and say nothing about him. Let a long time pass and then as soon as osuka pushes even a little bit on you, you vote against him for bs reasons. That's some scummy shit setting yourself up to be able to say, "Well I had good reasons, Nauci just said them already," but that's just an easy excuse not to make your own case or bring original content or reasoning to the table. Why we would lynch osuka who is confusing AF as opposed to CSF who is clearly scum doesn't make sense to me.

Additionally, I think osuka makes a strong, pro-town point in the second quote at the top (1411). Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on why it's pro-town

not

to use all of our time, and I think I read a counter argument that it is pro-town to use the time if we have it. Muddying up the waters with tons of posts that make it hard for us to go back and read is not a solid argument, though, for ending a day early. The way I see it you have two options that determine whether or not ending the day early is pro-town or not.

First, if the discussion is dragging out, dying, and stalled... then yes, it is pro-town to end the day and keep things moving. If town is not in the drivers seat and no one is driving at all it gives scum an opportunity to take the reigns and control the conversation, spam up the thread, and wait it out until the end of the day when everyone panic-votes themselves into a mislynch. Second scenario, discussion is alive and active with strong content being produced and active gameplay dominated every RL day. This creates an difficult environment for the scum to survive, because they're forced to participate in the open or be suspected for trying to coast under the radar. It gives us more opportunity to evaluate our options and avoid a mislynch. For example, hypothetically I'm thinking if so many are on board with an osuka lynch (one that isn't totally solid), then it is

pro-mafia

to try and end the day early rather than giving everyone time to sort through this case and giving osuka a chance to explain. It is pro-town to take more time to let the scum hang their own noose, like I have clearly set out above with Cat Scratch's cheap shift onto osuka that we would not have had a chance to dive into had we ended the day early.

So it's not a hard-and-fast rule that ending the day early is pro-town. It is pro-town to let the day go on until we are confident in a scum lynch, and if that means it takes a long time, that's fine. If we get to that point sooner rather than later and there's not much more to talk about, then end the day early and get to business. But the latter is not the case in our game. If it creates more content for us to sift through and makes our job harder because we have to do more reading, then man up and just deal with it. You have more stuff to evaluate. That's a good thing. Maybe this is just a longer game that takes more time than a normal one. Don't be lazy, work hard to find the right lynch.

Vote stays on CSF and I'd encourage y'all to move your votes too.

[osuka]

hahah this is funny

look at how two people pointed out the exact same thing independently of each other

it's almost as if we should VOTE: csf

[LicketyQuickety]

I am pretty sure Glitch just totally redeemed themselves.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, popp and Blair are Scummy as shit and I might actually vote Cat at this point given no wagon develops on popo, Blair, or Truth.

[Blair]

Is the CSF wagon finally happening?

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

Prediction: Quick will somehow find this scummy even though he's been screaming about me asking to consolidate onto CSF for fifty billion pages.

[osuka]

Also, popp and Blair are Scummy as shit and I might actually vote Cat at this point given no wagon develops on popo, Blair, or Truth.

again I'm 100% down for lynching truth

[osuka]

does two people count as a wagon

[LicketyQuickety]

Quick will somehow find this scummy even though he's been screaming about me asking to consolidate onto CSF for fifty billion pages.

If I was saying you need to consolidate to Cat, you would have a point, but I never said anything even remotely close to that, so you don't really have a point at all.

[osuka]

So it's not a hard-and-fast rule that ending the day early is pro-town

additionally i would say that ending the day early is almost universally pro-scum by virtue of stifling discussion

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why is osuka siding so hard with Blair here and then voting for CSF when CSF isn't Scummy?

CSF is scummy though

write a spicy narrative for why you think i'm scum

I'd like to see these answered

everything until 221 is shallow but im willing to forgive that since the beginning of the game can be slow
221 you have a tr-ish on me
227 you sound suspicious of truth
231 iioa
276 you think me vs quick is tvt
499 tr on glitch
537 is bad justification for a vote that feels is just meant to put more momentum behind a wagon
562 you still mention me vs quick as tvt
1054 you say that your read on nauci actually flipped
1147 you vote me

you literally never engaged my slot directly and the only mentions of anything resembling a read on me implied or meant I was town in your opinion. this strikes me as very opportunistic for a few reasons:
1. glitch made a big case on you in 1090 and put you at 3 votes (second most at the time)
2. you never expressed a scumread on me
3. GL had voteparked me, so you wouldn't be The Only Vote™ on me

Why is my progression

scummy

If I think Nauci started townposting and made a good case on you while I was gone, there's no reason for me to

not

shift my opinion of you. I was away from the thread for a few days - at what point do you expect me to have engaged you? I would like you to point this out.

I don't think I need a reason to engage you before voting you. I can always engage you after voting for you. After all, here I am, still talking to you.

of particular note is the fact that norwi voted me not a minute after that,

and

he was previously on your wagon (distancing?)

He wasn't, he was on NDMath before that.

[osuka]

Why is osuka siding so hard with Blair here and then voting for CSF when CSF isn't Scummy?

CSF is scummy though

write a spicy narrative for why you think i'm scum

I'd like to see these answered

everything until 221 is shallow but im willing to forgive that since the beginning of the game can be slow
221 you have a tr-ish on me
227 you sound suspicious of truth
231 iioa
276 you think me vs quick is tvt
499 tr on glitch
537 is bad justification for a vote that feels is just meant to put more momentum behind a wagon
562 you still mention me vs quick as tvt
1054 you say that your read on nauci actually flipped
1147 you vote me

you literally never engaged my slot directly and the only mentions of anything resembling a read on me implied or meant I was town in your opinion. this strikes me as very opportunistic for a few reasons:
1. glitch made a big case on you in 1090 and put you at 3 votes (second most at the time)
2. you never expressed a scumread on me
3. GL had voteparked me, so you wouldn't be The Only Vote™ on me

Why is my progression

scummy

If I think Nauci started townposting and made a good case on you while I was gone, there's no reason for me to

not

shift my opinion of you. I was away from the thread for a few days - at what point do you expect me to have engaged you? I would like you to point this out.

I don't think I need a reason to engage you before voting you. I can always engage you after voting for you. After all, here I am, still talking to you.

i never said i think your progression is scummy. I said that there was zero progression to begin with, genius

the fact that you didnt engage my slot for 500 posts means that either your read on me is fabricated, or you had a scumread on me that you literally never thought to discuss with town. I find the second one much more difficult to believe

[osuka]

I don't think I need a reason to engage you before voting you

this in particular is just really, really sad

[Cat Scratch Fever]

This reads as shit. Clear TR on osuka while it's easy up to halfway through the game, then drop off and say nothing about him. Let a long time pass and then as soon as osuka pushes even a little bit on you, you vote against him for bs reasons. That's some scummy shit setting yourself up to be able to say, "Well I had good reasons, Nauci just said them already," but that's just an easy excuse not to make your own case or bring original content or reasoning to the table. Why we would lynch osuka who is confusing AF as opposed to CSF who is clearly scum doesn't make sense to me.

Do you think osuka did enough to sustain my early TR on him? His engagement dropped off at some point, and it made perfect sense to reverse my read there.

The idea that people need original reasons to vote someone is very wrong. It's important to recognize a good case when you see it, so town doesn't run around in different directions like headless chickens.

[Blair]

Quick will somehow find this scummy even though he's been screaming about me asking to consolidate onto CSF for fifty billion pages.

If I was saying you need to consolidate to Cat, you would have a point, but I never said anything even remotely close to that, so you don't really have a point at all.

I'm pointing out that I have a well documented progression on this topic, and your awareness of said progression is also well documented.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i never said i think your progression is scummy. I said that there was zero progression to begin with, genius

the fact that you didnt engage my slot for 500 posts means that either your read on me is fabricated, or you had a scumread on me that you literally never thought to discuss with town. I find the second one much more difficult to believe

I barely posted for like >300 posts, so this is very not the argument you think it is.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

*I barely posted for like >300 posts in that very interval you are talking about

Why are you ignoring this?

[Blair]

I don't think I need a reason to engage you before voting you. I can always engage you after voting for you. After all, here I am, still talking to you.

HOL' UP

...!!!

Didn't you shade me for voting for you without taking the time to engage with you first?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't think I need a reason to engage you before voting you

this in particular is just really, really sad

Why? I was like the second vote on you - there was going to be ample time afterwards to talk to you and evaluate you on your play.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't think I need a reason to engage you before voting you. I can always engage you after voting for you. After all, here I am, still talking to you.

HOL' UP

...!!!

Didn't you shade me for voting for you without taking the time to engage with you first?

I shaded you for directing town onto two wagons when you first replaced in