Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[oʍo]

it would be a shame if an even night investigative caught them tonight though.

[MathBlade]

That would be called a great thing if it happened. That’s a great way to misspell shame. I don’t believe you’re an investigative though but if one existed checking lurkers would be awesome and be #mathApproved

[marcistar]

something feels weird

[ssbm_Kyouko]

something feels weird

Yeah something is definitely weird.

[ManateeDude]

something feels weird

i concur

[MathBlade]

Now I feel weird that everyone suddenly agrees with me that something is weird.

[oʍo]

i'd feel weird here if this was a gamestate where there were 3 scum left and dgb was still a flipped scum if thats a mood to feel weird in

[ManateeDude]

wdym omo

[MathBlade]

That’d be awfully scumsided.

A 4v9
4v7
4v5

Means 2 miselims before elo. I doubt this.

In constrast

3v10
3v8
3v6
3v4

I don’t think 4 scum is likely.
3 miselims before elo if three scum.

Three miselims seems a lot more likely.

[oʍo]

I'm saying I don't feel weird because there's solves in my view that work easily with only 2 scum left and DGB being flipped scum.

[Dwlee99]

Or scum aren't hopping on because she is scum.

Possible but not probable.

Aiming at a lurker is kinda a dart board in a dozen.

They either A> produce content B> Get replaced or C>Get policy elimmed.

Surely we can do better than a policy elim after getting scum?

Max has a scummy lurk

[MaxTheFox]

Why claim lmfao
They need to explain their dayplay, I don't give a shit what they claim, it doens't clear their dayplay up. We already had a self clear role claim so there's 0 chance of that here.

Explain

your

dayplay first, as I and others asked you several times.

Lowkey

OMO

's play style will always be scummy to me, but agenda wise I think they're town here.
On the other hand, I gave you a benefit of doubt in D1 but now I think you're using this

lurking

attitude to stay away from the limelight as scum.

Just my playstyle I guess. Unlike my last town game I actually have time to post right now.

Do you catch up fully? If so, can you give a read-list if possible?

I will once I catch up again.

[MaxTheFox]

and max since we're all here how do u feel abt salsa, specifically her vote on you?

Salsa, like Dwlee, is town to me. And her vote is also similar to Dwlee's: misguided townie.

Do you really trust the person who accused me of scumclaiming, pointing to a random post, and didn't explain it?

[MaxTheFox]

Also look at my last towngame! Even after I stopped being so busy I was about as active as I am now. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913

[MaxTheFox]

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

[MaxTheFox]

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

[MaxTheFox]

Also the reason I'm "lurking" is that I'm in GMT+7. That's why I have to catch up a lot.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

The first vote on Max- clearly not RVS.

This is my third game on MS. My previous two games:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642 - Scum. Proud of this one.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913 - Town. Not proud of this one because I was busy and lurked and made myself sus.

nobody cares

Saudade seems aggressive toward Max already

I disagree that Lookers behavior is town indicative, if anything its just his personality trait and his prefered way of expressing himself

Saudade here is saying Looker's behavior is NAI, but a shift is coming

I dont like not mafia, which in my opinion is a great basis for elimination who in?

I object.

Saudade then looks to set up Not_Mafia as an alternative to Looker, and omo objects. Good to see from omo, not joining the counter to scum!Looker

Propose an alternative

Now Saudade is again fishing for something that will stick to take the pressure off of Looker. This seems odd since purportedly he sees Looker's behavior as NAI. Rather than looking for a specific scum as an alternative to a wagon he doesnt SR, it seems like he's more interested in

any

wagon as an alternative, even if he doesnt have a reason for it.

Votecount:

• Looker (3): marcistar, ManateeDude, Titus
  Titus (2): Roden, ssbm_Kyouko
  omo (2): Saudade, MaxTheFox
  ssbm_Kyouko (1): Dwlee99
  Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
  geraintm (1): Salsabil Faria
  MaxTheFox (1): omo
  Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

I'm mason
VOTE: SSBM_KYOUKO

ive decided im townreading u

can we be townbuddies? :0

yes yes ofc ofc, tho we cant let the mafia know

I know

VOTE: salsa Bill

ive decided im townreading u

can we be townbuddies? :0

yes yes ofc ofc, tho we cant let the mafia know

I know

VOTE: salsa Bill

This is my real name which you're mocking without my permission, not cool buddy!

UNVOTE: Saudade

VOTE: geraintm

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

[Progressionless post until MaxTheFox arrives]

VOTE: looker

VOTE: looker

@looker any reason u havent lay down a vote?

VOTE: looker

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

VOTE: looker

@looker any reason u havent lay down a vote?

Hello.
It's 5am here, and I'm spending the day decorating:(

VOTE: Titus

Adding the VC for context of where the votes are at right now.

VOTE: maxthefox

Saudade is now voting Max as the alternative to Looker immediately after the VC where it shows omo was voting Max. It looks to me like Saudade is sheeping omo now because omo was not willing to sheep him on an alternative to Looker.

I forget what is happening this game and I'm not rereading what's good.

Vote maxthefox, its good

VOTE: Max
Okay

Here's Dwlee now following Saudade onto Max. I'm not sure if I buy that partners band together to counter wagon the third scum unless the third scum is a PR, and we've seen Looker flip goon. So dwlee I think is unlikely to be scum with MathBlade.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

I don't see a consensus, I see a RVS wagon.

Above are the two responses from Max onto her wagon.

max's response to votes on her is weird

We know manatee is town now, and I agree they do seem weird.

max's response to votes on her is weird

Well I'm not panicking because the votes were piled up during late RVS. What did you expect me to say? Honest question.

Yet another response to the votes. Again it is a weird thing to say

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

This is actually a good response I think, finally. At the time I read it, I thought it seemed foolish, but I actually think that might be a town tell for Max. I might have to reread to see if she sounds like this in her scum game.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

again this kind of naive posting could be seen as town!Max

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

This though I'm hesitant to say is towny. Feels like an imitation - I just dont know if "I'm happy to lock my vote onto you" sounds quite natural coming from her.

Max has reacted alright to the few votes thrown at him actually

Maybe Saudade saw what I'm seeing now, but I feel like in the moment it is much easier to see that Max's responses are not great. Without meta of Max this feels like a TMI. It could be an attempt to pocket a perceived weak town player who can be dragged along to limlo.

VOTE: dwlee99
why'd you sheepe me bro

We are literally masons

touche

This is a weird interaction. I don't think it's theater but it doesnt feel right. I think the issue is with Saudade here.

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

I think Looker is TMIing N_M town here maybe. Now that the pressure has shifted to Max and then dissipated from her, Looker needs some place to go and N_M is potentially a town here that Looker is reaching out to since so many of the other town players have already been voting him.

Don't like how quickly Saudade has let go of his hate boner

Finally this shows that N_M saw all of this in the moment which shows good depth of thought. I'm happy to say he's town.
--
I grabbed these posts to analyze the counterwagon to Looker, which I thought would point toward Saudade, but I'm not so sure. I actually think it could point to either of them.

I'm going to have to read Max's ISO from other games

[MaxTheFox]

Didn't catch up fully but my reads are formed, might as well.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Reads (this is sorted within tiers):

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
MathBlade (this was Saudade) - his attempts at solving earn him a lot of good boy points.
Salsabil - kept up the good tone.

TOWN LEAN

Manatee - gut read remains.
Not_Mafia - read stayed.
Dwlee - 50% meta read on this, dubious, I'm not locked onto this in any way.

NULL

marcistar - barely there. Lurker.
ssbm - just generally doesn't ping me as

anything

.
Titus - same.

SCUM LEAN

geraintm - suggested no-lim day 1 which is usually considered a bad idea. Also lurking.

SCUM BIN

omo - see the previous list, except their accusation of a scumclaim is serious now apparently.

---

It's easier for me to townread than scumread people, I found.

[MaxTheFox]

I'd put Max in the townblock based on the composition of the wagon on him.

"Pronoun: She"

[MaxTheFox]

I mean whatever I don't care, they're not good enough as scum to maintain it to endgame so I'm not too pressed about yall not figuring it out and TBH it'll help us in the longterm if they don't get turbo'd because it'll catch their other scumbud easily.

You seem to be assuming I am scum and going from there.

it would be a shame if an even night investigative caught them tonight though.

Is this a crumb or what?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Didn't catch up fully but my reads are formed, might as well.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Reads (this is sorted within tiers):

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
MathBlade (this was Saudade) - his attempts at solving earn him a lot of good boy points.
Salsabil - kept up the good tone.

TOWN LEAN

Manatee - gut read remains.
Not_Mafia - read stayed.
Dwlee - 50% meta read on this, dubious, I'm not locked onto this in any way.

NULL

marcistar - barely there. Lurker.
ssbm - just generally doesn't ping me as

anything

.
Titus - same.

SCUM LEAN

geraintm - suggested no-lim day 1 which is usually considered a bad idea. Also lurking.

SCUM BIN

omo - see the previous list, except their accusation of a scumclaim is serious now apparently.

---

It's easier for me to townread than scumread people, I found.

Weewooweewoo sound the alarms
VOTE: Max

In actuality I skimmed her iso in the other games she posted and I think this is clearly scum!Max.

[MathBlade]

What difference did you notice upon skim?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If it's not clear why Mathnis town on red flip, it is that Saudade moved the wagon from Looker to Max, and Looker/DGB flipped Goon