Mafiascum.net

VOTE: oversoul

I'm equally happy with an Oversoul lynch and Sryana isn't getting traction.

In post 1430, Zdenek wrote:

In post 1428, sword_of_omens wrote:Unless i’m reading this wrong somehow, his unvote makes sense to me...he originally looked at it as too powerful to be scum, then thought it might be considered a fake claim....

The thing is, it's not too strong to be scum. It is too strong to be town.

it is OP'd either way....




i will be re-reading Syr, Ffery, and Amrun today...

Zdenek wrote: fucking hate that I have no idea who SoO wants to lynch right now,

most likely it will be from Syr, Amrun, Ffer...I've stated why i think OS is town, and Kats had opportunity D1 to quietly let a mislynch go through, but instead was calling for Antagon's lynch the loudest.....

I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

In post 1451, sword_of_omens wrote:'ve stated why i think OS is town

Where?

Because thinking that he claimed a PR is not a town-tell and well looking like your trying to figure someone out it is not a great reason either.

If you think OS is town. Reread day 1. Look at the issues that arise. Look at the timing and content of Oversoul's posts. It should make you want to lynch him.

In post 1452, fferyllt wrote:I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

Zdenek wrote:If you think OS is town. Reread day 1. Look at the issues that arise. Look at the timing and content of Oversoul's posts. It should make you want to lynch him.

I'll look at this later.

In post 1456, Syryana wrote:

In post 1452, fferyllt wrote:I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

I've skimmed it and I've gone over his ISO. I am not sure what you mean by concerned about looking town. He had a few walls full of quote-and-response, that haven't been as prevalent in this game. And it looked like he made a point of not avoiding his scumbuddies. There were quite a few comments made in Tierce' and serra's direction.

In post 1457, fferyllt wrote:

In post 1456, Syryana wrote:

In post 1452, fferyllt wrote:I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

I've skimmed it and I've gone over his ISO. I am not sure what you mean by concerned about looking town. He had a few walls full of quote-and-response, that haven't been as prevalent in this game. And it looked like he made a point of not avoiding his scumbuddies. There were quite a few comments made in Tierce' and serra's direction.

Not a lot of time right now but, in short from what I remember of that game he was more passive, inquisitive but not aggressive. He wouldn't push on a target unless there was a good deal of public opinion condoning it (i.e. he only ever pushed main wagons). Here he's more aggressive and it just seems to me he's more like he was in that game where he was town (ongoing, you know the one). Am I wrong?

In post 1458, Syryana wrote:

In post 1457, fferyllt wrote:

In post 1456, Syryana wrote:

In post 1452, fferyllt wrote:I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

I've skimmed it and I've gone over his ISO. I am not sure what you mean by concerned about looking town. He had a few walls full of quote-and-response, that haven't been as prevalent in this game. And it looked like he made a point of not avoiding his scumbuddies. There were quite a few comments made in Tierce' and serra's direction.

Not a lot of time right now but, in short from what I remember of that game he was more passive, inquisitive but not aggressive. He wouldn't push on a target unless there was a good deal of public opinion condoning it (i.e. he only ever pushed main wagons). Here he's more aggressive and it just seems to me he's more like he was in that game where he was town (ongoing, you know the one). Am I wrong?

There was a targets of opportunity feel, yes.

The atmosphere of this game is really, really different, though. Aside from day 1 there haven't been many true targets of opportunity, except me and I really think I was left alone as a late game mislynch option. Matt looked lynchable on the wrong day. Since day 1, to me the bandwagon formations have been slogs through mud.

he voted hp on day 2, though. hmm

Wait, syry why are you voting Oversoul over me?

He's not

~Vote Count LV

Oversoul (3) ~ Katsuki, Zdenek, Amrun
Katsuki (2) ~ Oversoul, Syryana

Syryana (0) ~

(Amrun)

Not Voting:

fferyllt, sword_of_omens,

(Zdenek)

In post 1422, Zdenek wrote:I saw this

In post 630, enomis wrote:

In post 629, Oversoul wrote:

In post 628, enomis wrote:@oversoul: And yet you are not voting for poo.

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

All you did was" I need to think about this".

Explain your unvote since you already 'realized' the implications of the wording and you think the correct action was to lynch him.

and realized that Oversoul is probably scum.

Enomis is exactly right. Oversoul's unvote makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Other points about OS on day 1.
Oversoul's 253 ignores everything that is going on at the time. Pjo had started trolling me and SoO, and Whimsy was at L-1/L-2.
In fairness, his vote was on Whimsy, but his vote there in a post where he didn't comment on Whimsy at all.

There's also the post where Oversoul asked Matt and Tierce to kiss and make-up. Up until then, he thought Matt was town, but criticized Tierce for pushing a bad argument against Zach, and was suspicious of her for how her interaction with Zach ended. I think asking them to kiss and make-up is something that one would say to town reads that are fighting, not to a town-read and to a someone who's other interactions you have found questionable.

Erm... no.
I unvoted him because I wanted to think about his claim and how he was posting.

The reason I ignored everything else was because of the fact that nothing else was really going on. I made my reasoning and thinking abundantly clear that day. What are you confused about?

Telling Matt and Tierce to kiss and make-up has nothing to do with their alignments and more so there hospitality towards one another. I don't like reading fights between people and it was obviously not solving anything. You're reading too much into it. Although people recently across the board have been really skiddish when it comes to posts that are not de facto "I am scumhunting" which is a real shame since this is a game and all and as I have repeated multiple times, people do not play the same as others.

re: your suspicions about me thinking the role was too strong to be scum, my intention was that the role was too weird for it to be a fakeclaim. Normally I consider weird things to come from town more often than scum because scum don't want that kind of attention whereas town just tell it how it is.

it is why I made the reference to Zach's opinions because I remember him thinking roughly the same thing about the claim.

In post 1444, Syryana wrote:I'm waiting on fery to get back to me on it to see if I'm crazy or not.

Why are you so concerned with fery's read on me?
She is, if anyone, definitely not the authority on Oversoul meta. If you are looking for "please tell me I'm not insane" you should be more concerned about SoO's opinions. He knows my play probably better than anyone on this site.

I could vote Sryana for his weirdness surrounding thinking that Whimsical/Antagon flipped town. I generally think that scum try to feign confusion about obvious things in order to look town. His confusion over that also gives me pause because he was the only other one to state that enomis was the scum kill because of flavor.

It doesn't make sense.

Also, his ffery scum read didn't change at all apparently given the revelation that Antagon flipped scum and not town like he previously assumed.

I don't really think much of his earlier posts. But I'd be lying if I said that I thought he was more scummy than Katsuki.
More Katsuki votes.

@Zdenek – Mainly because of his interactions with Tierce..he looks like he is genuinely trying to get a read on her alignment, with the way he pushes back at her…and like I said, his #724 and #1266 are things that I have noticed that he only says as town..as scum, I have never seen him do that…

***

In post 1437, Syryana wrote:I originally thought that she was scum, particularly since she's only ever been in one Vi-modded game that I can see and by and large Tarharlindur is a scum role in Vi games. However, my "Amrun is likely town" scenario came from this.

Flavor cop in this scenario has zero utility for scum. Scum really only need to find the one role: Enomis. As he was from Ar Tonelico (not Ar Telonico, bad Vi, no puppy), and there are no other characters from that universe, scum couldn't have been given any information regarding whomever had the apocalypse role that would be useful for a flavor cop (otherwise, herp dead guy derp).

Therefore, the flavorcop must be a fakeclaim if coming from scum. Given pjo's "let's claim universes!" gambit, in order for Amrun to be scum this series of events must have occurred: 1) Flavor cop fakeclaim must have been created/taken from Vi pregame, 2)Pjovek must have gambitted with said fakeclaim at the start of the game, 3)Amrun, after replacing in, must have claimed said fakeclaim during massclaim. While it is not outside the realm of possibility that this has in fact occurred, I'm putting this in the "if they did all that and pulled it off this well they can bloody have the fucking game and I'll nom them for scummies later". Therefore Amrun is town.

If Amrun is town, it follows that fery must be town. Fery knew Day 1 that pjovek was the flavor cop (of some flavor, ucwutididthur). Flavor cop in this game essentially negates fakeclaims. If fery were scum, no fucking way would Amrun still be alive. None. I would even posit that scum-fery would have pushed for Amrun to be killed over Enomis, given Enomis (afaict) didn't crumb PR, whereas pjo/Amrun did (and fery picked up on it). Even assuming the other scum overruled her on N1, Amrun still would not have survived to now.

Pjo could have just as easily planned on claiming/fake-claiming flavor cop, with Ffery being his buddy.. You have to admit it looks a little coincidental for Pjo to ask about Universe and coincidentally drop crumbs about Ffery’s role name not once, but twice, without even “checking “ for Ffery’s Universe…this would give Ffery a “legitimate reason” to have Pjo as a town read throughout the game if Pjo ever came under suspicion..Scum Ffery would have a reason to get rid of town Pjo,yes… but scum Ffery would have none to get rid of scum Pjo...After Amrun replaced in, Fferry could have easily updated her on their plan…Also, looking at Amrun’s “Universe picks”, they have all been pretty much useless..she waited until after OS and everyone else claimed before she commented on it…she could have at least stated what Universes she checked while refraining from the names she received, but she didn’t..this would also allow her to “safely” pick Universes without confirmimg anyone...

Ffery - Ffery refrained from voting end of D1…she did vote Egg, but immediately unvoted as soon as Tierce asked for one…she also gave Bungle a town read for flip-flopping on her without reason (which still does not make sense)…she already had her “gut read” that Pjo was town, and then she gave Zdenek a town read right after his #402 which he stated it wasn’t a big deal about whether or not she was buddying Pjo and that Pjo was a better target for scum, anyway…
She never gives scum reads on anyone in the game, either…
her #651 was an ISO wall of Zach that she said was negative, but then at the end of it she never really clarifies what her stance on him is. I think the closest she got to an actual scum read was hp and me…and she never really even pursued either one of us..she kept pushing off her scum-read of hp saying that he was scummy, but wanting to wait on voting for him (#900)
She did do an ISO read of me, which she called out as “pretty bad” right after in her #901, but again doesn’t place a vote or even try to pursue me…even though she again says “I don't think I've ever had as strong a negative read from SoO's posts before” in her #907.
She instead votes hp when he antagonizes the non voters...
Next she states that she is leaning scum on Implosion and me...mainly because she was thinking about sheeping Matt’s list..when asked point blank by Syr who her scum reads are she says they are in disarray, and again says she was thinking about sheeping Matt’s list. She votes Implosion.
Next day she starts out voting Amrun and has a quick back and forth with her stating this:

Ffery wrote:don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.
You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions

And then unvotes her for almost no reason:

Fferry wrote:Well.
Reread has clarified fuck-all. But that's par for the course in this game.
UNVOTE: Unvote Amrun

She is now stating that she will most likely be voting for OS..i find it very strange that she hasn’t really pursued me considering i’ve been her main scum read pretty much all game, yet instead continually opts for the main wagons...

Pjo/Amrun – Agin Pjo’s play was bad at the start of the game...his posts were manily troll posts..where he does a fake reads list, asks Tammy about a non-existant case of his... he misrepped me by trying to paint me as a lurker on D1 based on my “i’ll be catching up today” post and tried to push it as a viable PL...Not to mention his post:

Pjo wrote: I thought scum only had a QT during nightphases?
If so then this is silly.
Or are pregame QTs actually a thing?
Sounds useless, theres like nothing to talk about without any posts.

This could easily be faked..especially the part about pre-game QT’s..that would definitely play into Ffery/Pjo planning to claim/fake-claim cop...
He also came back with this:

Pjo wrote:Alright, if pregame QTs actually exist, then I'm okaaaay lynching Eggplant, but I don't really like the wheels the wagon is driving on. They spin in different directions.

Again, alluding to pre-game QT...
Pjo also commented on Ffery (after Zach did) for flaking out on the Eggplant wagon when Tierce asked her to unvote , but never tried pursuing her at all...
Again ...more ties:

In post 217, Pjovek wrote:Also should I share my super-secret way of reading ffery as town?

Still waiting for that....as it wasn’t because he supposedly “copped her”.
Amrun, meanwhile interact much with Ffery up until a bit later.
#902 is where she says if she had 2 votes, the second would be on Ffery..based on stuff that got “eaten by the tigers”.
She then doesn’t say anything else at all about her until #1158:
(For the record, I was going to vote ffery out of the gate today but decided I wanted to watch this develop instead without influencing it.)
Then in #1170 she finally does vote her, which brings about the “but Pjo seemed to know my role” conversation.
Implosion is then lynched...
They start up the new day again...however Amrun doesn’t vote Ffery but instead votes Syryana (so as to “cop” her that night, assuming)
And Ffery unvotes Amrun with the whole “it doesn’t make sense, but ok”
And Mass claim ensues where it all “comes together”
Ferry is then cleared...

So if Ffery is scum, then Amrum HAS to be scum...there’s no other reason...as Scum –Ffery would have killed Amrun early in game due to the crumb if Amrun was town.
If Amrun is scum then Ffery could very well be scum as well..again, the whole lil dash thing is way too coincidental to have happened twice...the interaction between the two looks like they could be buddies...
Frankly, i’d feel better knowing if Amrun is lying or not and would prefer to vote her as Pjo’s play seems much more scum oriented to me (and quite honestly, because if i get burned again over a stupid flavor cop, i'll be really pissed) but i will vote either one...





Also,
i will be V/LA for the weekend, however i will find a spot with my phone before deadline to try move a vote if need be, or to answer anything directed at me...

@Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.

You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered.

@SoO, I am trying to figure out an Amrun scum/me town scenario that makes sense. Pjo's "breadcrumbs" from day 1 are bothering me immensely given Amrun's play.

Re his super secret way of reading me town, he explained it here.

In post 219, Pjovek wrote:

In post 217, Pjovek wrote:Because sword was a great day1 lynch (and still is)

In the meantime he has dodged replacement forcing with promises of more lurking, so yeah. A good lynch indeed.


Also should I share my super-secret way of reading ffery as town?
It'll cost you though.

Ah fuck it I can't hold my bowels.

Behold the power of my scumhunting:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1
Scum is Eggplant, sword and implosion.
fferyllt is the most town.
Don't get mislead by actiondan, he's not actually in the game.

Pjovek™ Scumhunting™ Inc.

Being the most prolific poster at any point in the game is not a sure-fire town tell where I am concerned.

More later.

In post 1462, fferyllt wrote:He's not

Sorry read VC wrong.

@SOO: Who do you think is most likely scum out of OS/Kat

Syr, would like your thoughts about this:

In post 1466, fferyllt wrote:@Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.

You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered.

Se're not no lynching today, so fuck off SoO and your Amrun vote. Basically you just bought yourself tomorrow's rope. So that's cute.

I've played with SoO before and he's never whined like this about lack of access, so he probably is actually scum too, so right now, I'd love to string him up, but getting a wagon going there is isn't going happen now.

So somebody should probably
======[]
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Given this

In post 1469, fferyllt wrote:Syr, would like your thoughts about this:

In post 1466, fferyllt wrote:@Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.

You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered.

And this

In post 1463, Vi wrote: Oversoul (3) ~ Katsuki, Zdenek, Amrun
Katsuki (2) ~ Oversoul, Syryana

Syryana (0) ~

(Amrun)

Not Voting:

fferyllt, sword_of_omens,

(Zdenek)

[/ooc]

And this

In post 1463, Vi wrote:--Deadline is 07:30 EDT on July 6, 2013.

(This is your last day!)

[/b]

My opinion therefore becomes this


VOTE: Oversoul

In post 1470, Zdenek wrote:Se're not no lynching today, so fuck off SoO and your Amrun vote. Basically you just bought yourself tomorrow's rope. So that's cute.

I've played with SoO before and he's never whined like this about lack of access, so he probably is actually scum too, so right now, I'd l ove to string him up, but getting a wagon going there is isn't going happen now.

So somebody should probably
======[]
[]======

you are wrong here, Zdenek try reading DBZ mafia..ffery was there and can tell you I got called out for the exact same thing.... and no I wasn't scum there, either... as far as my vote goes, , I said I would move it if I had to before dead line, but I was hoping that people would at least read and discuss the shit i type rather than just dismiss it....I had preferred not to vote on my town reads and think it's a legitimate case.. there was plenty of time to at least discuss it...

@Kats... although it doesn't really matter now, I probably would have gone with you... I've played with OS quote a bit and would like to think that I can read him pretty well...

~Vote Count LVI

Oversoul (4) ~ Katsuki, Zdenek, Amrun, Syryana
Katsuki (1) ~ Oversoul,

(Syryana)

Amrun (1) ~ sword_of_omens

Not Voting:

fferyllt,

(sword_of_omens)

~Vote Count LVII

Not Voting:

fferyllt, Katsuki,

(Oversoul,)

Amrun, sword_of_omens, Syryana,

(Zdenek)