VoidedMafia (6): morph the cat, BBmolla, 1baldeagle1, Klick, uʍop ǝpısdn, pieguyn
Nero Cain (3): Lord Mhork, zMuffinMan, VoidedMafia
Lord Mhork (2): Nero Cain, Zdenek
Klick (2): Garuda, Seanald
morph the cat (1): Pyrotechnics
uʍop ǝpısdn (1): ProHawk
zMuffinMan (1): PeregrineV
Not Voting (4): Lost Butterfly, Banakai, DoctorPepper, Harakiri
Deadline for Day 2 is Friday, November 1st, at 2:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:
(expired on 2013-11-01 13:00:00)
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:01 am
by Nero Cain
Both Love potion and Vote Freezer are extremely pro-town and it would make it harder for scum to mislynch. I'll go into a longer explanation later if need be and repond to some other stuff when I get back home.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:10 am
by PeregrineV
@Voided-
In post 895, Voidedmafia wrote:Fair enough, but I think there's other things to focus on right now until Seanald can give us more to work with.
He hasn't, even though he's had the chance.
In post 945, Voidedmafia wrote:My point is that focusing on the fact that seanald advertised austerity, an action that I do agree looks a little
stupid
, is not really a point to call someone scum on day 2, nor is it something that IMO should be a focus come D2. There are better things to look at, like who voted Hermy and for why, who didn't vote Hermy and why, who's trying to get towncred for actions they took (or didn't) (*coughProhawkcough*), etc.
Also, I don't really see a whole lot to lynch Seanald over. Lots of stupidity, not a whole lot of scummy to me.
This sounds familiar.
And Seanald has not addressed it yet.
In post 1449, Voidedmafia wrote:Because that one point is not enough to be worth lynching Seanald over. Yes, it's scummy. Yes, it's a very questionable advertisement choice. But are you telling me it's so salient that it's worth lynching Seanald over anyone else? Nero has this problem and more with his advertisement of Love Potion and Vote Freeze, as well as the problem with Mhork; does that not hold more weight than just a questionable advertisement choice? If you're basing your vote on more than that, what then?
You have a point. Let's look at your case on Hermy, yesterday's lynch. He had 4 posts, one of which was a vote against you.
In post 680, Hermy wrote:It's late and I'm way too tired to post truly useful stuff. But if anybody wants my opinions on anything then I'll be happy to give them.
For now, a tentative VOTE: voidedmafia
For reasons that have pretty much been listed. I've seen his gameplay and ISO and voided is marginally scummier than Harakiri. Though at this point both of them could possibly be scum. Though if it has to be one, I'm thinking voided.
Very eager to get me out of the way now that I'm actually a wagon worth considering? I'd be lying if I didn't say that I agree with the wishy-washy calls.
And since you are a new face, I expect you to lay out why you think I'm scum--or rather, lay out what points you think are against me.
In post 686, Hermy wrote:Er... I'd prefer reasons now instead of later...
Same to you.
In post 744, Hermy wrote:I'm getting a flashwagon for bad wording. Nice.
There's a difference between bad wording and being wishy-washy. Bad wording is often bad wording. Wishy-washy is flip-flopping and being noncommittal. You'll learn for next game.
Vote: Hermy.
I think that's about L-3 or so.
Hermy was lynched over Seanald yesterday.
You may have better luck explaining why Seanald is town, or why Austerity Measures is chock full of town goodness.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:11 am
by ProHawk
Morph, all of your scum reads please.
In post 1291, zMuffinMan wrote:harakiri had gotten lynched and flipped town, we would be in the same situation. i can't tell if you're being naively ignorant about this or simply ignoring it to make your point.
Wrong. Harakiri had interactions with players that would have been significant. Harakiri threw votes down for multiple people (Harakiri, Butterfly, Voided, Mhork, Senald, and Hermy). There were arguments for and against Harakiri being scum, and arguments that had more substance than the few quickly placed arguments for the lynch of Hermy. I can't tell if you are being intentionally being obtuse, or just really don't know how to sort useful evidence from the useless.
In post 1395, zMuffinMan wrote:1264 was a horrible post. even by nero standards. especially the last line.
I am not sure where you get this superiority complex from, but let me ask you this. In the Cash Cabd, what was the average percentage breakdown of posts made by you vs your partner?
Also, still haven't dropped Harakiri form being scum, but am starting to like the scum-hunting approach that LB is taking.
Don't have time to respond to much more at the moment, hopefully will find more later.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:12 am
by PeregrineV
In post 1451, Nero Cain wrote:Both Love potion and Vote Freezer are extremely pro-town and it would make it harder for scum to mislynch. I'll go into a longer explanation later if need be and repond to some other stuff when I get back home.
prohawk wrote:Wrong. Harakiri had interactions with players that would have been significant. Harakiri threw votes down for multiple people (Harakiri, Butterfly, Voided, Mhork, Senald, and Hermy). There were arguments for and against Harakiri being scum, and arguments that had more substance than the few quickly placed arguments for the lynch of Hermy.
even though the last sentence is wrong, you're vastly overestimating how "useful" that information is. plus information lynching is meh compared to lynching someone you actually think is scum.
prohawk wrote:superiority complex
...
prohawk wrote:In the Cash Cabd, what was the average percentage breakdown of posts made by you vs your partner?
100%. my hydra partner had IRL issues very shortly after the game started and never actually posted anything.
I guess when Senalad explains why he is advertising to keep an ability that takes $600 away from mafia (who can transfer all their money to a single player, and reduce loss) and $1500 away from town in a game that requires abilities to be bought, then I'll think my vote is silly too.
Until then....
controlling the money controls the game dude. why wouldn't i get that ability.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:42 am
by Harakiri
Vote: Seanald
Terrible reply, voting first, asking my other head later
I guess when Senalad explains why he is advertising to keep an ability that takes $600 away from mafia (who can transfer all their money to a single player, and reduce loss) and $1500 away from town in a game that requires abilities to be bought, then I'll think my vote is silly too.
Until then....
controlling the money controls the game dude. why wouldn't i get that ability.
Austerity Measures x 1 (Day): The following Night, every living player (including yourself) loses $100 (to a minimum of $0), after wages and transfers have resolved. This will be announced in-thread.
I don't think so, keeping the games money as close to zero sounds pretty useful. I'd like to believe in towns ability to outplay scum in thread play rather than through night actions.
I guess when Senalad explains why he is advertising to keep an ability that takes $600 away from mafia (who can transfer all their money to a single player, and reduce loss) and $1500 away from town in a game that requires abilities to be bought, then I'll think my vote is silly too.
Until then....
controlling the money controls the game dude. why wouldn't i get that ability.
Austerity Measures x 1 (Day): The following Night, every living player (including yourself) loses $100 (to a minimum of $0), after wages and transfers have resolved. This will be announced in-thread.
And furthermore, assuming alphabetical elimination of unadvertised abilities, Austerity measures would have hit the drink N1.
I don't think so, keeping the games money as close to zero sounds pretty useful. I'd like to believe in towns ability to outplay scum in thread play rather than through night actions.
I'm no expert, but I think Mountainous sucks for town, and with scum stacking their money on one player, they reduce their losses.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:01 am
by Seanald
well its how town destroyed the game in marketplace 2.
you also keep saying this like you know for certain that it's happening.
you forget they play a huge risk putting their eggs in 1 basket, my team made that mistake in marketplace 2 and lost a lot of money.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:04 am
by Harakiri
In post 1447, PeregrineV wrote:I had negative value to the scumteam once the two town players from lylo flipped.
I mean on day one when it was you v Desp. You stayed way under the radar.
And you have already stated the reason leaving him around is dangerous.
I understand your thinking, but the thing is muffin, if town, is also a huge benefit to the town and I don't want to lynch him when we have much better candidates on the table.
In post 1451, Nero Cain wrote:Both Love potion and Vote Freezer are extremely pro-town and it would make it harder for scum to mislynch. I'll go into a longer explanation later if need be and repond to some other stuff when I get back home.
Oh, I
can't wait
to hear this.
In post 1456, Seanald wrote:controlling the money controls the game dude. why wouldn't i get that ability.
In post 1459, Seanald wrote:I don't think so, keeping the games money as close to zero sounds pretty useful. I'd like to believe in towns ability to outplay scum in thread play rather than through night actions.
No.
No.
The average skill level in this game is higher than average, for one, so scum is more likely to be competent.
Moreover, this is bad.
You cannot completely give up half the game to the other team and expect to win
. Scum have a lot of catchup mechanics for cash, we don't. Removing $100 from each of our wallets hurts the town a metric fuckton more than scum--scum can easily pool money, scum can plan around the use of the ability. Scum naturally will have more money than the town. Town does not have that ability.You
cannot
ignore the main mechanic of a game and expect to win. To do so is, like, empirically wrong. Ugh! The fact you even espouse such an opinion hurts.
you also keep saying this like you know for certain that it's happening.
you forget they play a huge risk putting their eggs in 1 basket, my team made that mistake in marketplace 2 and lost a lot of money.
You said you advertised it. Did you bid on it and win it? If so, when do you plan on removing $100 from each player? When do you think is the optimal time to use it for town?
In post 1447, PeregrineV wrote:I had negative value to the scumteam once the two town players from lylo flipped.
I mean on day one when it was you v Desp. You stayed way under the radar.
And you have already stated the reason leaving him around is dangerous.
I understand your thinking, but the thing is muffin, if town, is also a huge benefit to the town and I don't want to lynch him when we have much better candidates on the table.
In post 1451, Nero Cain wrote:Both Love potion and Vote Freezer are extremely pro-town and it would make it harder for scum to mislynch. I'll go into a longer explanation later if need be and repond to some other stuff when I get back home.
Oh, I
can't wait
to hear this.
In post 1456, Seanald wrote:controlling the money controls the game dude. why wouldn't i get that ability.
In post 1459, Seanald wrote:I don't think so, keeping the games money as close to zero sounds pretty useful. I'd like to believe in towns ability to outplay scum in thread play rather than through night actions.
No.
No.
The average skill level in this game is higher than average, for one, so scum is more likely to be competent.
Moreover, this is bad.
You cannot completely give up half the game to the other team and expect to win
. Scum have a lot of catchup mechanics for cash, we don't. Removing $100 from each of our wallets hurts the town a metric fuckton more than scum--scum can easily pool money, scum can plan around the use of the ability. Scum naturally will have more money than the town. Town does not have that ability.You
cannot
ignore the main mechanic of a game and expect to win. To do so is, like, empirically wrong. Ugh! The fact you even espouse such an opinion hurts.
FFERY! CABD! NACHO! Let's make some money!
Hi. Thanks for the obvtown claim. While ffery does the difficult reading and lynchy stuff, I want to establish a worst case "what the redacted says" baseline. Would you like this dance?
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:41 am
by PeregrineV
In post 1464, Harakiri wrote:I mean on day one when it was you v Desp. You stayed way under the radar.
This took me a minute, but OK. I remember AD getting lynched, and forgot Desp was the other player.
I've commented on this in bits and pieces already.
In post 1340, zMuffinMan wrote:i actually think my scum game can be rather transparent if you know what to look for.
Unfortunately, I don't, so this is rather useless.
In post 1343, Pyrotechnics wrote:As said before, not why I was scum reading Mina. She felt off and I was trying to figure out why. How was I supposed to know that she really was addressing baldeagle in that quote when the name wasn't there and the rest of the post was addressed to you in name but actually to me. I was mostly just confused by the whole post.
I realize that now, but it wasn't immediately clear when reading through your posts the first time.
In post 1306, Garuda wrote:Please don't fuck up quite possibly the only time we will be town together ever.
Please don't treat me like I'm stupid. This is the only thing you've said to me all game; that doesn't sit well.
Usually we don't interact much in games; you call me scum in a troll/non-trolling way I'm never quite able to distinguish between and then I'm called up to read you even though we both know my grasp of your meta is not so good. Why didn't you like our Klick vote?
In post 1355, Pyrotechnics wrote:that it would bring suspicion on you guys if she wasn't posting; therefore you might fake ffery posts to make it look like she's posting more than she actually is and make you guys look town.
This is much easier said than done. The only one of my hydra partners I could consistently fake is mollie, and that's definitely not something I could easily pull off around people that were actually familiar with her.
In post 1393, Nero Cain wrote:50/50 on Klick.
50/50 on Sean, atleast he's correctly reading me as town.
Klick: Incredibly scum.
Seanald: Incredibly town.
In post 1438, morph the cat wrote:Cabd's going to write it up and post it later, but we want to quicklynch the fuck out of Klick.
I don't think so, keeping the games money as close to zero sounds pretty useful. I'd like to believe in towns ability to outplay scum in thread play rather than through night actions.
Town has more money than scum does.
Austerity Measures takes away more money from town than it does from scum (thus hurts town more).
Scum has already done pretty well in the auction department so far.
Using Austerity Measures means that you're hurting town when town has already been suffering a bit. Keeping the money close to zero doesn't mean that no one wins anything, it means that people the team with less money but in higher amounts (scum) will prosper over the group that has more money that's spread over more people (town).
This post is giving me some weird feelings from mismatched, Nacho talk to me.
~Sakura Hana
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:46 am
by morph the cat
You are a Mafia (Left Hand) Member, along with your partners [Partner names go here].
Nest Egg: You start the game with [Some amount >100].
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive [Given no time bonus, some value >50].
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, [Some fixed amount probably, 25?].
Insider Dealings: Any money you spend bidding on auctions that are listed in red is [Probably only half used or partially refunded]
Dirty Tricks ($$$): You have a number of dirty tricks at your disposal. Each Night, each member of your team may perform one of these (if desired); however, each Dirty Trick may only be performed once per Night. The first Dirty Trick is free; each subsequent use [some signifigant but not impossible amount]. Dirty Tricks are not treated as targeted abilities; they cannot be roleblocked, and will not appear on Tracker or Watcher reports.
•Wire Fraud: Name two players, a transferer and a transferee. Any money that the transferer would transfer to the transferee during this Night [are blocked and or given to you instead].
•Lockout: Name a target player and a current auction. Any bid made by the targeted player for that auction [will not count as a bid?].
•Countermeasures: Name a target player, a targeted ability name, and a target. If that player attempts to use that ability on that target during this same Night, [that action will fail and they will lose that action].
Shell Game ($$$): At any point during the Night, you may [choose?] to transfer some or all usages of one of your abilities amongst your team as desired. They may be used by the recipients that same Night.
•Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, [there is no cost to transfer money to them]. Otherwise, [same as town role pm?, 80% goes to them probs].
This post is giving me some weird feelings from mismatched, Nacho talk to me.
~Sakura Hana
Awwww, how cute, I managed to make sakura paranoid. Tell the other head he still owes me a setup spec dance.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:54 am
by morph the cat
In post 1468, Garuda wrote:Can we please quicklynch the fuck out of Klick?
Wait till tonight (ffery wants to wall first) and the vote's all yours, and it's even in relatively new condition, no major scratches, scrapes, ticks, or fleas.
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:23 pm
by Harakiri
In post 1471, morph the cat wrote:Awwww, how cute, I managed to make sakura paranoid. Tell the other head he still owes me a setup spec dance.
Left Hand wrote:The free market is fine, but it’s so...inefficient. A shame, really, but from that insight you quickly realized that with the help of a few others who shared your views that this is a turning point, a time of opportunity. Control of the marketplace can lead to all of your dreams coming true; given such a reward, it’s obvious that you’ll do anything to eliminate the competition -- permanently.
You are a Mafia (Left Hand) Member.
Nest Egg: You start the game with $150.
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive $100.
Efficiency Bonus: You do not receive an efficiency bonus.
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, $100 is split evenly amongst the living members of your team (any fractions are lost).
Money (P): Each Night, you may spend any or all of your money on the following activities:
Bid: Bid on abilities being auctioned off in the marketplace. Described in Section III.
Invest: The following Night, you will receive 140% (round down) of what you invested (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s investment rate).
Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, they will immediately receive 95% (round down) of what you transferred. Otherwise, they will receive it the following Night (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s Transfer).
Advertise: Influence what abilities will be auctioned off in the marketplace the following Night. Described in Section IV.
Share: Select a single ability you possess; you may distribute some or all of your shots of this ability as you desire amongst your teammates for $51. This takes effect immediately, and they may use received shots this same Night.
Mafia Knowledge (FP): The Mafia (Left Hand) team is Guille2015, Phillammon, and MagnaofIllusion. You all received the same Role PM.
Mafia Communication (FP): You may speak with your partners in the Quicktopic here at any time.
Insider Information (FP): You know that there is another Mafia team, and that you win with them. You know that the town is not mountainous; there are town members who are not Entrepreneurs.
There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch: You do not possess a factional Night-kill. In order to kill, you must win the Night-kill auction.
Pulled Strings (FP, 1-shot): Once during the game, one member of your team may choose an ability that has not yet won an Advertising. It will win the current or next Advertising round, regardless of any money spent on other abilities. Advertising is described in Section IV.
Fakeclaim (P): The Entrepreneur Role PM is posted in the thread. If you give me specific game mechanics, I will write the relevant PM for you incorporating those elements with proper flavor and styling.
You win with the Mafia: You win when all the players alive have the Mafia win condition, and there is at least one player alive.
Right Hand wrote:The free market is fine, but it’s so...inefficient. A shame, really, but from that insight you quickly realized that with the help of a few others who shared your views that this is a turning point, a time of opportunity. Control of the marketplace can lead to all of your dreams coming true; given such a reward, it’s obvious that you’ll do anything to eliminate the competition -- permanently.
You are a Mafia (Right Hand) Member.
Nest Egg: You start the game with $150.
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive $100.
Efficiency Bonus: You do not receive an efficiency bonus.
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, $100 is split evenly amongst the living members of your team (any fractions are lost).
Money (P): Each Night, you may spend any or all of your money on the following activities:
Bid: Bid on abilities being auctioned off in the marketplace. Described in Section III.
Invest: The following Night, you will receive 140% (round down) of what you invested (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s investment rate).
Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, they will immediately receive 95% (round down) of what you transferred. Otherwise, they will receive it the following Night (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s Transfer).
Advertise: Influence what abilities will be auctioned off in the marketplace the following Night. Described in Section IV.
Share: Select a single ability you possess; you may distribute some or all of your shots of this ability as you desire amongst your teammates for $51. This takes effect immediately, and they may use received shots this same Night.
Mafia Knowledge (FP): The Mafia (Right Hand) team is GreyICE, Pitty, and Seanald. You all received the same Role PM.
Mafia Communication (FP): You may speak with your partners in the Quicktopic here at any time.
Insider Information (FP): You know that there is another Mafia team, and that you win with them. You know that the town is not mountainous; there are town members who are not Entrepreneurs.
There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch: You do not possess a factional Night-kill. In order to kill, you must win the Night-kill auction.
Lockout (FP, 1-shot): Once during the game, one member of your team may choose a current auction. The auction will act as normal, but at the end of the Night it will be announced that no one has won the auction, and that the auction will re-occur during the next Night. All money bid on the auction will be refunded.
Fakeclaim (P): The Entrepreneur Role PM is posted in the thread. If you give me specific game mechanics, I will write the relevant PM for you incorporating those elements with proper flavor and styling.
You win with the Mafia: You win when all the players alive have the Mafia win condition, and there is at least one player alive.
You are a Mafia (Left Hand) Member, along with your partners [Partner names go here].
Nest Egg: You start the game with [Some amount >100].
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive [Given no time bonus, some value >50].
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, [Some fixed amount probably, 25?].
I assume these numbers are all likely the same or very similar to the last game.
Insider Dealings: Any money you spend bidding on auctions that are listed in red is [Probably only half used or partially refunded]
This is the one I was most worried about. I assume money they spend on red auctions has a multiplier factor or that they won ties no matter what...I dunno. I don't think they have an insurmountable advantage, though.
Dirty Tricks ($$$): You have a number of dirty tricks at your disposal. Each Night, each member of your team may perform one of these (if desired); however, each Dirty Trick may only be performed once per Night. The first Dirty Trick is free; each subsequent use [some signifigant but not impossible amount]. Dirty Tricks are not treated as targeted abilities; they cannot be roleblocked, and will not appear on Tracker or Watcher reports.
•Wire Fraud: Name two players, a transferer and a transferee. Any money that the transferer would transfer to the transferee during this Night [are blocked and or given to you instead].
•Lockout: Name a target player and a current auction. Any bid made by the targeted player for that auction [will not count as a bid?].
•Countermeasures: Name a target player, a targeted ability name, and a target. If that player attempts to use that ability on that target during this same Night, [that action will fail and they will lose that action].
We're in agreement on Wire Fraud.
I think the text on Lockout is "will not count towards the auction and be drained from that player's account." However, note the Right Hand's role PM in the last game...
I think countermeasures is closer to roleblock+steal ability. All three of these abilities are there for the sake of punishing town coordination in the open--if I'd not been dumb and actually read how the second game went down pre-game, I would have put a lot more emphasis on neighborizer(my initial plan was to try to get as many hydras in a neighborhood as possible). Thankfully, Peregrine is like, town and half, so it's fine(game might actually be over if Peregrine is scum anyways).
Shell Game ($$$): At any point during the Night, you may [choose?] to transfer some or all usages of one of your abilities amongst your team as desired. They may be used by the recipients that same Night.
This appears to be a buffed version of the power from the last game. Likely has a small cost.
•Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, [there is no cost to transfer money to them]. Otherwise, [same as town role pm?, 80% goes to them probs].
They get 95% and non-teammates play by normal rules.
