Mini 1592: Flying Aces (Game Over)

[CooLDoG]

^yeah, it would have been hard to come back after that.

[Dr Pants]

yeah scum had a really bad run of luck this game. if Pasche hadn't slipped they might have been able to stabilize, but once it was down to 1 mafia vs 7 town it was effectively over

[Belisarius]

Did MC's fake claim include that medal or whatever that he had in his claim?

Actually, yeah, it stuck out in my mind heavily.

This was the fakeclaim, copy/pasted from my sent items:

Messiah Complex: James McCudden - Doctor

Royal Flying Corps
17 Shiteburn Lane
London, UK

REF-PLT-5537-R
ORDERS-7-57-SRT

ATTN: MCCUDDEN, JAMES, VC

You are hereby requested and required to present yourself for active duty at J. Aerodrome in the Douai sector. You will serve in the capacity of

Allied Doctor

. Each Night, you may visit a player of your choice and protect them from night kills. Your nation of allegiance is The United Kingdom of Great Britain Please signify your understanding of these orders by confirming in-thread

Why Not's was originally intended to read "BISHOP, WILLIAM AVERY, VC, DSO AND BAR" but I wasn't at a keyboard when I was thinking it up

[Thor665]

I will say I disagree with thoughts expressed in the QT about the relative balance of the setup. Outside of the way the propagandists were handled (and the vague idea that Vigs are a balancing effect to weaken town...? Though I don't think that was an actual issue.) I thought the game was pretty well constructed.

The propagandists probably should have been given explicit info about the bonus fluff that would appear around their posts. It didn't end up mattering, but it easily could have,

[Dr Pants]

While I did like that you died Thor, I am a little disappointed that we didn't get to see more of the Propaganda role. Its much more powerful than people think it is, if used at the right time you could massively distract town.

[Thor665]

Not with the mod attached flavor of 'dropping from a German plane' methinks.
Or, if it did work - it would be blatantly town's fault for buying it.

[Thor665]

Also that does overlook that there was an Allied Propagandist - whose death should have clued people in, or who, by being alive, should have had a pretty good idea himself.

[Why not]

I thought my role was incredibly powerful. If I hadn't allowed a wagon to grow on me, I'd've been able to confirm people left and right.

[Belisarius]

It was meant to be; Daychat would be just as powerful in the hands of the right scum team and they had a rolecop to find you.

[Desperado]

daychat is just as powerful as an amnesiac cop?!?

wow

[Desperado]

even if we had found him n1 and killed him asap, which is essentially what happened, he still gets two investigations + alignment indicative tells on the two he sends them to.

and cooldog was conftown because everyone spent d1 assuming it was an openly two faction game, regardless of your intentions.

[Desperado]

@ Thor: cooldog, baezu, why not, and pants were all confirmed town on d2. we had nothing to deal with either town pr beyond learning of their existence. maybe it comes down to a difference of opinion re: daychat idk

gg everyone

[Dr Pants]

but there are scenarios where amnesiac cop would actually help scum, most obviously if a scum player got info on one of their partners
the way the game worked out was very town sided, but part of that is that Why Not and CoolDog both did very well with their PR's
if CD missed his shot and Why Not got a scum confirmed as town, the game would have been super scum sided

[Desperado]

if we played this game 1000 times, how many times to you think the amnesiac would investigate one scum and send it to another?

[Thor665]

@Desp - Cooldog was confirmed as a Vig, as Vigs will.
Why Not was a cop who claimed with a result - that will also happen.
Pants was cleared simply because I died - that is not fair to blame on the setup as if I had played different or the Vig had shot elsewhere it would have been a different outcome.

I will agree with you that game designers have weird theories in their head about the power of Daychat that I have seen be justified in only about 1% of any given game with Daychat I have ever seen.

That said, a 1-shot Vig and a Cop versus a Rolecop and Roleblocker doesn't feel like bad game design to me.

@Pants - I agree with Desp, that is silly talk.

[Desperado]

that's an extreme outlier and that isn't how you balance games. it is much, much more likely to confirm multiple town and force the recipients to reveal their agendas than the situation you described

[Thor665]

I will agree the Mod probably shouldn't have confirmed the sides like he did in an otherwise closed setup, but with a claim of 1-shot Vig anyway, it's not like there would have been much SK suspicion in any case.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think the setup is ok, but agree that daychat is not as strong as reviewers may think.

[Desperado]

Thor, pants was also town for the way he handled why nots investigation. that's part of my issue with the role. and cooldog would not have been conftown if we didn't interpret mod information incorrectly

[Desperado]

I think I just don't like amnesiac cop. it is insanely powerful.

[Thor665]

I think the "incorrect" mod information read was actually the mod trying to cover his backside, personally

Pants was going to be town read after the interactions between him and I Day 1 post a Thor scum flip pretty much no matter what. All that did was make people more trusting of the Baez result, but, frankly, with a Thor scum flip the Cop made the right choice of who to send the info to regardless.

PEdit - you are saying with a regular cop, the game would have felt balanced to you?

[Desperado]

I'd feel better about it yeah.

[Desperado]

We still wouldn't have had any roles to actually interfere with the town prs but making him a regular cop introduces a lot more leeway for scum

[Desperado]

For one, why not himself isn't conftown if he has to relay his investigations personally

[Thor665]

I hear you talking, but it sounds like the same line as people who argue about how powerful Daytalk is for scum (which, literally only matters in larges or for quickhammers as far as I can tell).
Okay, so there are 'interactions' to assess...there is also some added paranoia about buying results which *also* gives scum leeway.

PEdit - eh, he was an investigative. He was as confirmed as any investigative. Hell, if I hadn't been dead we potentially could have argued him as a Mafia Propagandist or something.