A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[beeboy]

Must Be Town

True Ogre:

Same as below

davesaz:

I like a lot of his interactions and I can follow all of his progression easily while I also agree with most of it. He is trying to drive the game forward. I haven't seen anything bad coming from the slot as well. Overall I have no reason to scum read him.

Probably Town

Mirhawk:

Early on he was incredibly towny and was one of my strongest town reads. The case on his is complete bull and I don't understand any of the scum reads on him. His interaction and uber towniness has died off a bit now that he is a leading wagon but that is understandable considering the time he spends in this game has to be used to defend himself.

The Pied Piper:

I like a lot of the interactions they have done and I can follow there logic easily.

Spiffeh:

As far as I remember this is how town Spiffy play, I would have him above but I disagree with some of his reads and am suprised he isn't reaching certain conclusions. Also he went from pressuring Seniors to having him as null which is suspicious. Going strictly on gut and meta I would have him higher but I would probably have him as null/scum if I didn't understand his play

SnarkySnowman:

Solid reads, no incredibly scummy things. I would rank Snarky below Spiffy and Mirhawk but overall I have no problems.

I don't even know

Tammy:

The intitial interaction with me gave me very strong vibes that she was trying to avoid confronting real issues by calling my play shit. Although recently all her progression has made sense and I am not having trouble following it. I am pretty underwelmed by some of her posts but I need to wait a bit before I can expand on this read.

dramonic:

Useless trolling I would have him as scum but people are saying meta and a mislynch on him would give us literally 0 info because I wouldn't blame anyone for trying to get him lynched from a town POV.

Sakura Hana:

Sakura's interaction themselves have been very towny and I would like to put her in the town pile but I can't follow any of her logic this game and I disagree with a lot of her reads. She immidiatly backtracked on both her Seniors and Cakes vote but this could easily come from town. Ignoring her reads I would say she is definitly town but if you ignore her towny interaction and only look at her reads I would say she is probably scum.

Amihan:

The fake CC was towny but I think Amihan could be trying to use that as an excuse to coast. More analysis is needed.

Probably Scum

SirCakez:

His reasons for scum reading people are bad and I can't follow any of his logic this game. I don't have any faith in my ability to read him based on meta and if I felt more comfortable I would put him 1 slot lower but there is a chance he is just lynch bait right now and I don't want to make any risks. The way he is approaching scum reads is very "by the books". This is literally EXACTLY how he almost coasted to end game in borderlands 2 and I don't want to die off and see him win because everyone thinks his easy to fake interactions are good. Although I didn't pay attention to him when we played a game and he was town (because I was scum) so his scum hunting style could just be something I disagree with not necessarily scum.

tictac:

Nothing noteworthy from this slot. I stopped following it really, I remember it being very underwhelming but I currently have better priorities so I don't feel like going back and ISOing him to pinpoint exact reasons or posts. Overall though he felt very insincere and fake.
THE WRONG LYNCH: I don't know what this slot is doing. I can't follow there reads or any of there progression. I would rank them below Cakes but I don't want to put them in the null pile because they are clearly pushing reads and trying to rally town. I want to keep looking at this slot and potentially reavalate it but I don't have any difficulty imagining them flipping scum.

Must Be Scum

Friendless Seniors:

This is definitely EP scum, This is definitely Hiplop scum. I find that Hiplop is easiest to read when you push him into a corner and that is exactly what I did. The whining and giving up is literally exactly how I expected scum Hiplop to react he is appealing to emotion and was using it as an excuse to coast. The EP slot knows how mad I get at this game and tried to get me mad anyway and even pointed out that it was a problem which is backwards logic. They kept complaining and I caved and decided fine I will stop pushing EP so I started to push Sakura and Cakes. I even stopped posting for a decent chunk of time so I could give people as much space as possible. After I gave them space they continued to defend themselves and not actually drive the game foward they aren't the types of players to focus on themselves as town but that is all they are really doing. They are deliberately avoiding actually needing to commit to anything and this is the fake, insincere scum EP taking away all meta and only reading EP's post it is blatantly scum. I don't think Hiplop has actually made any decent posts this game so reading him is hopeless and I know for a fact he is doing it on purpose so we lose a method to read the slot. They both called my play bad to discredit me because they know what I am saying about there meta is true and they are also using that as an excuse to coast.

Ranger:

She put Tammy, Cakes and Piper and Sky in her highest and 2nd highest points respectively throughout her entire read list. Despite being completely confident and being incredibly critical on many of the other players she put Tammy immediately as town. "because gut yo that 1 RVS post into coasting was so towny" I feel as though when Tammy did post her presence maybe made Ranger feel confident that she could put her at the top of her readlist and look good but the read itself doesn't make any sense. The reads feel fake, the read lists are hard to follow, she didn't include reasons or the page she was on to make her read lists hard to follow on purpose and overall there isn't anything astounding with her analysis this game. She also started to back track on her Spiffy scum read when she realized that people disagreed with it. I guess that was just a long way of saying she makes no sense but *shrugs*

VOTE: Friendless Seniors

[beeboy]

I didn't proof read the above.

I left out some reads.

Some people where saying I was confusing but they thought my engagement was towny but they couldn't follow my reads. Ideally I would like people to follow my reads so I made this post to help people understand my position.


If you have any questions or want me to expand further on any reads be my guest and ask.

[beeboy]

Ooohhhh I got a page top as well o=

Seniors votes plz.

[Tammy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read and determine whether or not to take you seriously. Why would you be underwhelmed by me? Unless you're an alt, you don't have any completed games with me and therefore shouldn't have expectations that I'm failing to meet. Besides that I feel pretty damn good here so hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go.

[Tammy]

You have more than five games to your repertoire and you're actually trying to argue the waffling is a scum tell thing?

How is that unbelieable to you?
Waffling isn't a strong tell, but it is a tell and it's a pretty commonly used one.

It's a terrible tell in and of itself because while scum may waffle, waffling is more often a personality trait and since town don't know shit they often don't know shit and therefore "waffle".

The reason why it's been problematic when it's been used by the likes of sircakez and mala is because it's akin to throwing buzzwords at posts and people to make it look like you're scum hunting when you're actually not. It's very easy to just throw around this shit because you look involved, but I don't trust anyone with any modicum of experience in this game to actually use waffling, backtracking or fencesitting as a scum tell without actually trying to figure out if it comes from scum or town.

When people waffle there's always a reason. Now for instance in the case of this here:

That reads to me as a CC, so yes your fence sit is pretty bad.
~M

It reads to me as an implied CC without explicitly stating that she is indeed a miller.
How is my fence "pretty bad" anyways? That's pretty vague.

I'm not sure how if she doesn't believe that Ami cc'd,

but is willing to jump onto the building train that was happening that early page on.

I'm certainly a lot more sure of Mirhawk being scum than I was when I was reading early yesterday.

~M

?

Because obviously you voted after the CC when the wagon was growing.
Then shortly after you said you wanted her to CC, but was still voting. It felt as if you were leaving your options open which is a hugeeeeeee fencesit.

~M

The reason I hate this is because why can't this come from him as town. When I read it I didn't take it as a for gospel counter claim. What is his scum motivation here to fencesit? If both pistachio and ami are town, then mirhawk has absolutely no way of knowing if one is a miller or if one is a counter claimer no matter his alignment, so what is his scum agenda with the fence sit? What is he gaining here?

I see no gain whatsoever, therefore calling him scum because of the fencesit, when it's something he can't know, is bogus and looks like flinging mud to use a buzzword without digging.

I have a similar problem with sircakez's accusations to beeboy and trueogre. Sircakez gave a blanket backtracking scum read on true ogre for very little (I think he's said he feels better about him now, so) but it felt like throwing a buzzword to make it look like scum hunting. This has been discussed a lot so I'm not going to requote it, but the waffling accusation to beeboy also made me frown. And he justifies his issue with beeboy voting and unvoting in too few posts but he's not actually looking at the conversation that took place to see if it makes sense. Therefore again it feels like buzzword throwing rather than actual scum hunting.

When you also throw in that he's defending people based on play in previous games, I'd expect a depth of reads that isn't showing through the waffling accusations. If you're going to use waffling, fence sitting, or backtracking as your reasoning for scum reading someone then you should be digging deeper to see if it's coming from town who just don't know shit.

Oh hey pied piper, I guess that answers my big problem with cakez I said I'd get to.

[beeboy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read and determine whether or not to take you seriously. Why would you be underwhelmed by me? Unless you're an alt, you don't have any completed games with me and therefore shouldn't have expectations that I'm failing to meet. Besides that I feel pretty damn good here so hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go.

The fact that you pushed me when you did not even say I was scum instead of pushing literally anyone else was what I found underwhelming. I also find that for large periods of time you limit you interactions with specific people which is underwhelming. I also read a lot of your longer posts but they just felt like really long winded away of getting a cross a simple post so I feel like the word count in your ISO is misleading. Underwhelming has literally nothing to with meta, I find people I have never played with underwhelming all the time.
Although to be fair after rethinking things I definitely don't think you are town but I couldn't put my finger on why I exactly think you are scum so you are nullish.

Are you following what I mean now, if you are town it is important we are on the same page?

[beeboy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read

You keep bringing up how you don't want to read through long posts but I find all of your long posts to just be big short posts and it is the same thing I am cutting through shit to understand your point.
Maybe this is a play style thing I don't know if you always make long posts to prove your points meta would actually help me approach my read on you here. It is just without that meta all I see is an incredibly odd double standard that pushes an agenda that allows you to coast.

[Tammy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read and determine whether or not to take you seriously. Why would you be underwhelmed by me? Unless you're an alt, you don't have any completed games with me and therefore shouldn't have expectations that I'm failing to meet. Besides that I feel pretty damn good here so hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go.

The fact that you pushed me when you did not even say I was scum instead of pushing literally anyone else was what I found underwhelming. I also find that for large periods of time you limit you interactions with specific people which is underwhelming. I also read a lot of your longer posts but they just felt like really long winded away of getting a cross a simple post so I feel like the word count in your ISO is misleading. Underwhelming has literally nothing to with meta, I find people I have never played with underwhelming all the time.
Although to be fair after rethinking things I definitely don't think you are town but I couldn't put my finger on why I exactly think you are scum so you are nullish.

Are you following what I mean now, if you are town it is important we are on the same page?

Why would I call you scum when I was trying to figure you out and get you to cut through the shit so I could determine what your read on FS was all about? Interacting with someone and pressuring them isn't always about proving their scum but is about getting a handle on them and the game. I interact with who sticks out to me when I'm going through stuff.

What would my writing style have to do with anything?

I'm not sure what you're asking in the last question. Are you asking me if it's important if we're on the same page if I'm town or are you saying it's important we're on the same page?

[Spiffeh]

Tammy help what do I do

[Tammy]

Um I was trying to get you to cut through the shit so I could get at your actual read

You keep bringing up how you don't want to read through long posts but I find all of your long posts to just be big short posts and it is the same thing I am cutting through shit to understand your point.
Maybe this is a play style thing I don't know if you always make long posts to prove your points meta would actually help me approach my read on you here. It is just without that meta all I see is an incredibly odd double standard that pushes an agenda that allows you to coast.

I think you misunderstand me completely. Your early game that I was getting after you for and trying to get you to stop was your noise. You were loudly declaring that FS were scum for very slim reasons, some of which were not scummy at all. I needed you to stop with the bullshit, so that I could get a read on you and try to determine where you were coming from on FS.

I directly engaged you with what I wanted you to stop doing.

What you're doing here is I have no clue. If you are trying to find a point that you think I'm not making clear enough, then engage with that particular point and ask me to clarify. What you're doing here just feels like you're trying to criticize me and put me down for my writing style or my thoughts and saying they're not good enough. But you're being vague and I don't know what you're referring to.

What is this double standard that allows me to coast? What???

[beeboy]

Why would I call you scum when I was trying to figure you out and get you to cut through the shit so I could determine what your read on FS was all about? Interacting with someone and pressuring them isn't always about proving their scum but is about getting a handle on them and the game. I interact with who sticks out to me when I'm going through stuff.

What would my writing style have to do with anything?

I'm not sure what you're asking in the last question. Are you asking me if it's important if we're on the same page if I'm town or are you saying it's important we're on the same page?

If you disagreed with my how I was approaching the game why wouldn't I have the expectation you would scum read me?
Why not react to early posts in the game that are scummy instead of reacting to me?

It feels like overall safe play I don't see the reason for town to not want to pressure someone with a vote but I can see why scum wouldn't want to as negative interaction is a lot easier to walk off then a legit vote.
You keep coming up with excuses to justify why you where pressuring me and they honestly all fail to justify what you where doing.

If we are both town and do not understand each other there is a 0% chance we can work together so we will probably lose that is why getting on the same page is important.

[Tammy]

Tammy help what do I do

Your homework!!!

If it's game related, a specific question might help? Although I'm getting ready to step out and run some errands, but I'll be back in a few hours

[Friendless Seniors]

Not even a true quality that I give up as scum

like hes straight up lying

[Spiffeh]

I still think Ranger is scum why are people townreading her?

[Spiffeh]

Hippy who is scum?

[Friendless Seniors]

beeboy, go on cakez. He is very very likely sucm here

Ranger is..meh? I'll get to work there. I can read that slot, don't worry.

[Friendless Seniors]

Honestly spiff, university just ended for me. I've been a bit busy for mafia.

I'm a bit behind haha. I'm sorta catching up but everytime I do, beeboy is screaming in my face!!!!

[Friendless Seniors]

I'm here too and can give you my thoughts.You - Didn't like your push on FS at first. But after going over your ISO overall your other questions and activity look town to me.FS - I don't like the amount of time they spent complaining about your (BBoy) push on them. I also don't like that they are scum-reading me off one post. They like Ami's case on me even though that consists of Ami not liking my questions and assigning a scum motivation to it. EP and Hippy have both played with me before so they know how I am D1 in a large. Their position on me feels a lot like a slot keeping their options open to be able to jump on a lynchbait wagon. Leaning scum here.Ranger - feels town. Ranger just got in the game and spent some time reading and putting forth reads as she went along. The posts read as open and forthright to me. I want to see more as we go along but for now, I'm not interested in lynching Ranger today.VOTE: Friendless Seniors

Hippy has been largely absent. I agree you're probably town.

Why us over ranger?

[Spiffeh]

Just ignore him and say words before deadline

[beeboy]

I think you misunderstand me completely. Your early game that I was getting after you for and trying to get you to stop was your noise. You were loudly declaring that FS were scum for very slim reasons, some of which were not scummy at all. I needed you to stop with the bullshit, so that I could get a read on you and try to determine where you were coming from on FS.

I directly engaged you with what I wanted you to stop doing.

I find it odd you expect 40 pages after my initial RVS read that I would still be committed to Seniors. You wanted me to disengage but at that moment in time you didn't understand why I was still voting him at all.
It is an odd thing to focus on if you didn't find it scummy but instead just bad play since you didn't understand the actual reason I was still committed to Seniors. I guarantee from your point of view there was better things that you could focus on then my bad play to help you understand the game.

What you're doing here is I have no clue. If you are trying to find a point that you think I'm not making clear enough, then engage with that particular point and ask me to clarify. What you're doing here just feels like you're trying to criticize me and put me down for my writing style or my thoughts and saying they're not good enough. But you're being vague and I don't know what you're referring to.

I did, I am asking why you focused on me instead of anyone else. I didn't understand who you thought was scum when you were catching up and I find that incredibly odd.

What is this double standard that allows me to coast? What???

You don't have time to read long posts, you make long posts that can easily be short.
You are justifying not reading large portions of the game.

[beeboy]

beeboy, go on cakez. He is very very likely sucm here

Ranger is..meh? I'll get to work there. I can read that slot, don't worry.

Cakez is very likely scum but I like lynching you more.

[Friendless Seniors]

I speak as the obvscum he caught in Mafiaception.

this is wrong. Spiffeh hard defended you all game? You might remember a certain friendless senior caught you.

357 is dead on the money, but I'd like to add: hiplop's naked vote on pistachi0n served the same purpose. Everyone else who voted pistachi0n looked like they genuinely felt like they were pursuing a scumclaim, but hiplop gave absolutely nothing. (Yes I can tell it was hiplop.) And Mirhawk gave 324.

of course it was me. I naked vote ALL the time. When someone counterclaims, that's what I think you should do. Its my fucking way of play and YOU of all people should know that. This is bullshit. You CAN read me, and I think you're one of the few who can, but you're completely off based

and you know it

I gotta figure this out. I have lots of experience with ranger.

[Friendless Seniors]

you're giving me an aneurism

[beeboy]

Not even a true quality that I give up as scum

like hes straight up lying

That is my understanding, maybe I am wrong but I have reasons to scum read EP when I scum read both heads the hydra is probably scum.

I am really sorry that I am basing how you play as scum from the scum games we have played together recently instead of old games.

[Friendless Seniors]

VOTE: ranger

this is scum, actually.