Mafiascum.net

In post 1446, votato wrote:ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Just replace the word "scum" with "town", and get "As town there's no reason for her to claim there."

In post 1450, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1446, votato wrote:ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Just replace the word "scum" with "town", and get "As town there's no reason for her to claim there."

Exactly. Nai

In post 1449, votato wrote:

In post 1447, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1445, votato wrote:

In post 1443, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1421, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1219, Formerfish wrote:And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

except notice that no pressure was actually applied. Where were the votes?

I'm not saying that pressure was applied, I'm saying why would fish bring anyone's attention to osuka's inconsistent read on him if he didn't have to?

distancing? There was little risk involved given the focus was elsewhere. Why did you fight Maria in gnr?

They were arguing back and forth at a time when, if they were scum, they would have already successfully achieved a mislynch on waves and lined up another mislynch on freddie. In what world do they continue arguing in the thread for pages after the hammer when they can just not do that and it still wouldn't be suspicious? "Occams razor."

She picked a fight with me first, that wasn't planned. I always argue when someone picks a fight with me, so that's what I did in response. You'd have to ask her "why" she picked a fight with me.

In post 1444, votato wrote:i mostly started suspecting ff later. The gambit reeked to me

Why? Because I caught your partner and saw through the thirst behind that attempted towncred grab?

In post 1451, votato wrote:

In post 1450, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1446, votato wrote:ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Just replace the word "scum" with "town", and get "As town there's no reason for her to claim there."

Exactly. Nai

Yeah that's really not what I'm saying at all.

Scum!freddie claiming VT gets the benefit of people calling her noobtown and hard defending her for it; she gets the benefit of not having to explain why she wasn't the NK in this game ever; she gets the benefit of being able to tie messy associatives to the people who are defending her so even after she gets lynched, PoEs are fucked up by that claim.

At any time during that entire chain of events, freddie could have asked for clarification about what was happening if she was so clueless, like you say she is. She could have asked whether waves had really been lynched. She could have confirmed whether she needed to claim. Since you two know each other so well, she could have asked you directly to explain what was happening if she felt intimidated by others in the thread. She didn't do any of those things.

In post 1446, votato wrote:ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Multiple people have pointed out the potential LAMIST mentality behind that.

Like, i am so close to asking a question, but once I do that box cant be closed, but if the answer is yes then i get the relationship you guys have and im not going to question things any more, but if the answer is no then you are being severely anti-town with your play here and are being more of a distraction than anything.

I assume you disagree that before Freddie claimed that they were a likely target for the nk, therefore claiming vt as scum allowed her an out when the day started and she was still alive, "Oh, well they didnt kill me because they knew i was a vt because they know im town and must have went pr hunting."

You cant say that there is no reason for scum to claim there, you can only disagree that thats what happened.

In post 1448, gibus wrote:I don't understand how FF found Copy bleeding town, and find it AI that he ignored my question.

I generally dont explain townreads, i just make cases and lynch scum. I do that by making allies and enemies, if my allies prove to be incorrect more often than not, or make bad plays than i readjust, until then i lynch through my scum reads and play the game until we win.

In post 1455, Formerfish wrote:

In post 1446, votato wrote:ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Multiple people have pointed out the potential LAMIST mentality behind that.

Like, i am so close to asking a question, but once I do that box cant be closed, but if the answer is yes then i get the relationship you guys have and im not going to question things any more, but if the answer is no then you are being severely anti-town with your play here and are being more of a distraction than anything.

I assume you disagree that before Freddie claimed that they were a likely target for the nk, therefore claiming vt as scum allowed her an out when the day started and she was still alive, "Oh, well they didnt kill me because they knew i was a vt because they know im town and must have went pr hunting."

You cant say that there is no reason for scum to claim there, you can only disagree that thats what happened.

all of this

In post 1448, gibus wrote:How is FF defending Copy different from votato defending Fred?

Because im not saying that Copy slot is 100% town and fighting anyone who says otherwise. I remember liking Copys posts (and i think he was fighting with Vota wasnt he?) and then when the slot was replaced there were shenanigans where Tux was pushed close to a lynch right after replacing in and mentioning that they werent caught up, so that gave them town points in my eyes since it seemed like a scum push to get a quick lynch before the player could catch up and start defending the slot against the bullshit being flung against them.

So, yeah, my read evolved on that slot to grow stronger based on evidence of their plays, and the plays lobbied against them by players i scum read.

Kind of the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing.

And no one has laid out a case that is going to sway me away from Vota or Freddie yet.

You want me to look elsewhere, give me a place to look that is more attractive then where im looking.

In post 1444, votato wrote:i mostly started suspecting ff later. The gambit reeked to me

Fish announced that he was ending the gambit in 473 by virtue of having posted about it. There wasn't going to a "D2 solve" because as he said, he didn't have anyone to back him up. You still didn't have him in your lynchpool in 876. So where exactly did you start suspecting fish due to his gambit?

In post 1458, Formerfish wrote:Because im not saying that Copy slot is 100% town and fighting anyone who says otherwise. I remember liking Copys posts (and i think he was fighting with Vota wasnt he?) and then when the slot was replaced there were shenanigans where Tux was pushed close to a lynch right after replacing in and mentioning that they werent caught up, so that gave them town points in my eyes since it seemed like a scum push to get a quick lynch before the player could catch up and start defending the slot against the bullshit being flung against them.

Meh I kind of disagree with all of these reasons to townread Copykat slot

In post 1448, gibus wrote:Copy's predecessor was

statistically more probable

to be scum, but still eliminates him in his PoE.

Important part of that sentence is in bold. This is the second time you are taking things in the view of a vacuum and questioning things based off that logical fallacy.

Please stop.

In post 1460, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 1458, Formerfish wrote:Because im not saying that Copy slot is 100% town and fighting anyone who says otherwise. I remember liking Copys posts (and i think he was fighting with Vota wasnt he?) and then when the slot was replaced there were shenanigans where Tux was pushed close to a lynch right after replacing in and mentioning that they werent caught up, so that gave them town points in my eyes since it seemed like a scum push to get a quick lynch before the player could catch up and start defending the slot against the bullshit being flung against them.

Meh I kind of disagree with all of these reasons to townread Copykat slot

There is more to it, but again i dont really explain my townreads since a lot of it is based off gut and putting things together in ways that a lot of other people dont see. I have just played a shit load of this game over the last 7 years and have a pretty good grasp on the fundamentals that scum hunting of old was built on. I'm like this when finding scum or town:

Vota, who do you want to lynch today?

Gibus?

Freddie?

And not which one of those, but i want answers from the 3 of you specifically.

In post 1461, Formerfish wrote:

In post 1448, gibus wrote:Copy's predecessor was

statistically more probable

to be scum, but still eliminates him in his PoE.

Important part of that sentence is in bold. This is the second time you are taking things in the view of a vacuum and questioning things based off that logical fallacy.

Please stop.

I was questioning your early game analysis

In post 1465, gibus wrote:

In post 1461, Formerfish wrote:

In post 1448, gibus wrote:Copy's predecessor was

statistically more probable

to be scum, but still eliminates him in his PoE.

Important part of that sentence is in bold. This is the second time you are taking things in the view of a vacuum and questioning things based off that logical fallacy.

Please stop.

I was questioning your early game analysis

We are well beyond that, would you like time to catch up, or do you think we can proceed?

i want to lynch osuka. There is only one thing that would make me change my mind

In post 1467, votato wrote:i want to lynch osuka. There is only one thing that would make me change my mind

i hope you're not softing that you want me to claim

im busy with work atm but i plan on catching up to this thread asap, sorry i didnt do it yesterday