Mafiascum.net

So there was in fact no strongman.

Mods need to stop with this BS.

In 100% of games lately the setups have roles that deliberately mislead the town, such that ROLES ARE USELESS.

Worse than useless.

In post 1451, DrippingGoofball wrote:In 100% of games lately the setups have roles that deliberately mislead the town, such that ROLES ARE USELESS.

Worse than useless.

This is fair as it "cleared" me.

I'm sure the mod team will comment on balance.

In post 1444, Titus wrote:

In post 1440, Roden wrote:Pretty sure it's because Geraint was basically confirmed town after Day 4. DGB, for all intents and purposes, was basically confirmed town yoo because of the Loyal Doc situation, but there was a chance I did get Roleblocked. Which was true, but DGB was still town anyway lol.

I actually want to know WHY Geraint still voted DGB when he didn't seem to believe I got Roleblocked.

We all had reasons to be conftown which is why I was surprised I had locktown reads from both town. DGB's was particularly surprising given 1338.

I had the bus. Geratim had the targeting. DGB had the roleblock.

I'm not sure how I got that quickhammer.

That quick hammer came real fast too, I'm honestly surprised neither of them even considered you. Egix was definitely the best kill choice, GG.

In post 1452, Titus wrote:

In post 1451, DrippingGoofball wrote:In 100% of games lately the setups have roles that deliberately mislead the town, such that ROLES ARE USELESS.

Worse than useless.

This is fair as it "cleared" me.

I'm sure the mod team will comment on balance.

I don't want to pick on the game, objectively the scum played a really fun game and I don't want to take away from that.

It's become a chronic source of frustration and disappointment to play a game only to find out that the mod has stuck their finger on the scale irrespective of overall balance. Strongman-finder with no strongman is just one example among many.

In post 1420, Titus wrote:Ranny had horrible reads. If he wasn't conftown, he would likely have been in lylo for the misvote.

No way geratim's scum. The frame was too perfect.

Lol

In post 1451, DrippingGoofball wrote:In 100% of games lately the setups have roles that deliberately mislead the town, such that ROLES ARE USELESS.

Worse than useless.

This is a point I find worthy of comment. There are two things I want to say about it: one specific to this game, and the other more general.

The more specific point is that Egix' Strongman-Finder ability served a definite purpose in the setup, in that it motivated him to target players he suspected of being Mafia. This made his 'real' ability of catching the Encryptor one that would reward good reads on his part. (Ultimately this is not why he targeted VFP but had the game gone differently it could have been.)

The more general point is that the purpose of power roles in a Mafia game, particularly in a closed game, is to give their faction whatever benefit those roles have. It is emphatically to present an "outguess the mod" puzzle wherein the town tries to discern the setup by meta-reasoning. I can honestly say I did not add that role with the hope of anyone, not only because that particular formulation was an NRG suggestion but because I never would have imagined anyone to be so confident in the first place that the presence of a Strongman-Finder implied there must be a Strongman to find. Given that you openly admit you knew no such guarantee existed, I don't think you can also seriously claim you were tricked.

In other words: the primary way the town could have caught Titus as Mafia in this setup was by To the extent that the town lost by disregarding scumhunting in favor of reliance on a promise that no one had ever made, I consider that loss well earned.

There’s no way anyone can predict this at the time of setup, but due to poor communication from the doctor’s slot, it really did look like there was a strongman. It wasn’t just trying to outguess the mod.

In post 1457, Rannygazoo wrote:There’s no way anyone can predict this at the time of setup, but due to poor communication from the doctor’s slot, it really did look like there was a strongman. It wasn’t just trying to outguess the mod.

The Loyal Doctor implying the existence of a Vig and that being correct also helped solidify the idea that there was an actual Strongman. I don't think it's entirely unfair to think if the Loyal Doc was added for reason, so too was the Strongman Finder. Though I agree that shouldn't have been the only factor for determining scum, especially in a final three scenario.

Umlaut wrote:

In post 1451, DrippingGoofball wrote:In 100% of games lately the setups have roles that deliberately mislead the town, such that ROLES ARE USELESS.

Worse than useless.

This is a point I find worthy of comment. There are two things I want to say about it: one specific to this game, and the other more general.

The more specific point is that Egix' Strongman-Finder ability served a definite purpose in the setup, in that it motivated him to target players he suspected of being Mafia. This made his 'real' ability of catching the Encryptor one that would reward good reads on his part. (Ultimately this is not why he targeted VFP but had the game gone differently it could have been.)

The more general point is that the purpose of power roles in a Mafia game, particularly in a closed game, is to give their faction whatever benefit those roles have. It is emphatically

not

to present an "outguess the mod" puzzle wherein the town tries to discern the setup by meta-reasoning. I can honestly say I did not add that role with the hope of

tricking

anyone, not only because that particular formulation was an NRG suggestion but because I never would have imagined anyone to be so confident in the first place that the presence of a Strongman-Finder implied there must be a Strongman to find. Given that you openly admit you knew no such guarantee existed, I don't think you can also seriously claim you were tricked.

In other words: the primary way the town could have caught Titus as Mafia in this setup was by

scumhunting.

To the extent that the town lost by disregarding scumhunting in favor of reliance on a promise that no one had ever made, I consider that loss well earned.

To be fair, town lost because town kept letting themselves get mis-elim'd for three days in a row lol.

Even if I KNOW that mafia roles are mostly there to trick the town, I just can't help it because as uninformed majority, I am in the dark searching for glimmers.

I refused to believe in a setup where a strongman-finder had no strongman to find.

If one can't believe the power roles, and one should only look to behavioral scum hunting to find scum, why not make the games mountainous and do away with PRs?

It's as if we were asked to solve a puzzle with the wrong picture on the box.

Again, it's not this game in particular, it's ALL THE GAMES lately.

I'm not averse to the mods planting some land mines against the town but it gets really old after a while.

I thought that by playing more normals, I could avoid this. I guess not! It's the new mod meta. The town needs to play like it's mountainous.

T3, I hope you learned a valuable lesion from this.

The lesson is, do it again

In post 1457, Rannygazoo wrote:There’s no way anyone can predict this at the time of setup, but due to poor communication from the doctor’s slot, it really did look like there was a strongman. It wasn’t just trying to outguess the mod.

To be fair, I did all I could to highlight strongman wasn't confirmed without being anti-scum. I wanted DGB in the scumpool so there was a bit of self interest.

DGB, you are entitled to your taste in setups, and if this one wasn't to your taste then it probably doesn't matter whether or not I can explain how it's reasonable from my perspective. I hope you still enjoyed the game.

In post 1458, Roden wrote:To be fair, town lost because town kept letting themselves get mis-elim'd for three days in a row lol.

Also true, and why I said "to the extent that" -- because really, the direction of this game wasn't primarily about that even if the last day maybe was.

GG, Scum.

Nice NOT playing with you all.

Thanks for modding, Umlaut

In post 1464, Umlaut wrote:I hope you still enjoyed the game.

I did, thanks to the scum's outstanding circus act.

In post 1439, Titus wrote:@Egix, why in tarnations did you target DGB when mechanically she could not be a strongman?

200IQ strat. I figured out that you were scum and there was no strongman. I was hoping that you would kill geraint, thus confirming me as town since I couldn't have neighbourised DGB simultaneously.

Two 200IQ strats. I still could have argued you were split but you died because that was a stretch, you were the least pocketed, and I could spin why either killed you.

I forgot about this game and my reads were obviously bad.

If scum is still reading this, why was I the N1 kill because you all thought cw would confitown me?

In post 1469, Jessica Rabbit wrote:I forgot about this game and my reads were obviously bad.

If scum is still reading this, why was I the N1 kill because you all thought cw would confitown me?

No one had good reads. No one wanted to eliminate you though. You died because of being obvtown.

We didn't need to protect ourselves because town was guarding us from suspicion. We just needed to have no safe voice to turn things around.

I will never understand my own gambit.

You played the King's gambit, thinking that you were playing the Queen's gambit.

In post 1471, T3 wrote:I will never understand my own gambit.

I'd nominate it for Kodak moment but I figured that might be insulting.

Kodank moment