Mystery Box Mafia - Game Over

[Junox]

Look guys, with our action we either kill a townie or find scum. If scum RBed us last night to set up a mislynch today, they're not getting much out of it because whats the difference if spyrex hypo-town is killed last night or lynched today, its still the same hypo-townie dead either way. Only thing scum gains is tempo - they get to nk again before we get to lynch again which admittedly isn't a horrible thing for scum but is it worth RBing us over? IMO, only if scum felt there was a good chance one of them would be lynched today, otherwise a kill on a townie last night + a mislynch today is even better for scum. Consider - RBing us doesn't stop us from targetting scum, and we wouldn't know the difference. Meaning even if we were RBed, that doesn't mean spyrex isn't scum, but I'll let Juls go more into why we felt spy was scummy and decided to target him.

So Neruz is also scummy for this jumping to spyrex's defense:

Because a

reliable mislynch

is better.

Scum RBing us doesn't cause a reliable mislynch because scum would know there's still a chance we target scum anyways.

[SpyreX]

Here's the abridged version:

1 in (

Empking

, Neruz)
1 in (

Empking

, SpyreX)
1 in (Inhim, Junox,

Empking

)
1 in (Neruz, SpyreX, Sathoris, Junox)
2 in (Sath, dana, lobster, Neruz, Gamma, Junox)
2 in (Lobster, SpyreX, Dana, Sath, Gamma)

Neruz clear, SpyreX clear, Inhim clear, Junox clear as per top 3 & play supports Neruz and Inhim and ability use supports Junox

That means #4 leaves Sath
Which means #5 and #6 leaves 1 in dana, lobster, gamma

The only area we were having a discussion about is:

Empking(6) - Gammagooey, Neruz, inHimshallibe, MagnaofIllusion, SpyreX, danakillsu
Neruz(1) - Empking

Not Voting(3) - Junox, Sathoris, LobsterCatapult

He was thinking two on the wagon but both of us thought Sath was a lock. Which would mean with AT LEAST one on the wagon LC would be off and it leaves the last in dana/gamma.

VCA aside the rationale for Sath is the timing of the PR in parallel to RC's with the "teehee no one would expect us both to do this". That and Sath has been pretty much non existent and Robo thus far hasn't altered that.

[SpyreX]

Code: Select all

Look guys, with our action we either kill a townie or find scum. If scum RBed us last night to set up a mislynch today, they're not getting much out of it because whats the difference if spyrex hypo-town is killed last night or lynched today, its still the same hypo-townie dead either way. [b]Only thing scum gains is tempo[/b] - they get to nk again before we get to lynch again which admittedly isn't a horrible thing for scum but is it worth RBing us over? [b]IMO, only if scum felt there was a good chance one of them would be lynched today,[/b] otherwise a kill on a townie last night + a mislynch today is even better for scum. Consider - RBing us doesn't stop us from targetting scum, and we wouldn't know the difference. Meaning even if we were RBed, that doesn't mean spyrex isn't scum, but I'll let Juls go more into why we felt spy was scummy and decided to target him.

Tempo is important. Don't downplay that.

And the other? Considering MoI is dead AND one of his last posts is:

Top Tier – Empking, Sathoris, Junox

Well you put it together.

[Junox]

SpyreX, our flavor is "blown up". How exactly did we kill MoI? You are reaching here.

~Juls

[Junox]

I'm not downplaying that tempo is important, I'm just thinking that gaining that tempo this way would be at best a last resort longshot for scum who felt hopeless, and less than hopeless scum would be better off hoping we nk a townie and then the town mislynches today for ++tempo.

Whether we were actually RBed or not, we could still target scum, and scum are going to have to play the RB defense card, so I think we can agree that scum wouldn't RB us to prevent us from identifying scum.

The question is, then, is there anyone who felt threatened enough that the scum as a team however many remain decided to RB us in hopes (not guaranteed) we would target a townie who would then be mislynched today (also not guarenteed) rather than risk having a scum lynched today? Basically, the conservative play (blocking us) is still risky, and only worth it if scum really expected to be lynched today.

My first inclination would be to look at the early voters after we claimed today (gamma, dana) - neither of them have entered lynch discussion at all really, so I can't see them feeling threatened. You bring up Sath aka Robo - Robo had to be talked into voting you, and then unvoted as soon as you explained yourself. He also had to ask about us and our role. While he could be faking it, I'd expect that if there was a scum plan to RB us and get a mislynch today, he would have read about it in the QT and would be aware of such things as "why spyrex is scum" after we claimed and "whether or not we are confirmed" - those are legitimate "tells" that if there was RB in play who targetted us, Robo would have to go out of his way to intentionally play ignorant about it and do it quite well. As far as I'm concerned, if we really were RBed, robo's posts at the start of the day make him pretty town IMO.

~Rhinox
EBWOP: lolz DOUBLE ATTACK MODE ACTIVATE

[Junox]

Or are you saying that's what makes Sath scum?


Town: We should lynch Spyrex, no doubt. The scenario proposed is less probable in my opinion than the fact that Spyrex is just scum.

~Juls

[SpyreX]

Thats why Sath is scum AND why you got RB'd.

Of course its far too easy to put the blinders on and do this and it doesn't lose the game so get to it.

When there's not a quickhammer don't be surprised.

[Robocopter87]

W-ll th-r- r--lly -sn't m-ch - c-n s-y -n d-f-ns-. bc-z -ts - VC-.

- cl--m VT. P-r- VT. -l-ng w-th - PR fr-m m- b-x.

- w--ld l-k- t- h--r fr-m th- r-st -f th- pl-y-rs b-f-r- d-c-d-ng -n wh- -s sc-m.

[Neruz]

So Neruz is also scummy for this jumping to spyrex's defense

I'm not defending spyrex, i'm stating that your investikill is

not

100% reliable at finding scum. I don't give a wooden nickle who you targeted, i'd still have brought up the same point.

[Gammagooey]

I'm gonna translate that while I ask you somethiing because I don't have anything better to do right now.

Well there really isn't much I can say in defense. bcuz its a VCA.

I claim VT. P-r- VT. along with a PR from my box.

I would like to hear from the rest of the players before deciding on who is scum.

Let's pretend for a minute that your last statement irritates me. Exactly who do you want to hear from before deciding on things, and give me a vague idea of what you'd like to hear from them to help you decide.

[Robocopter87]

I'm gonna translate that while I ask you somethiing because I don't have anything better to do right now.

Well there really isn't much I can say in defense. bcuz its a VCA.

I claim VT. P-r- VT. along with a PR from my box.

I would like to hear from the rest of the players before deciding on who is scum.

Let's pretend for a minute that your last statement irritates me. Exactly who do you want to hear from before deciding on things, and give me a vague idea of what you'd like to hear from them to help you decide.

Th-nks 4 tr-nsl-t-ng 4 m-. Th-s PR -s r-d-c-l--sly h-rd. B-t f-n. sh--ld - -s- n-mb-rs? L1k3 th1s? @3106 - V-w-ls 1n @lph@b3t1c@l 0rd3r. C@n't th1nk 0f 1 f0r th3 l@st 0n3.

W3ll. c0m1ng 1nt0 th3 g@m3 1 w@s k1nd@ thr-st int0 b3l13v1ng th@t SpyrX w@s sc-m. Wh1ch n0w 1 d0nt r3@lly b3l1v3.

N0w th3 s1t6@t10n h@s ch@ng3d t0 31th3r m3 0r SpyrX. @nd s1nc3 1 d0nt th1nk h3 1s sc6m. @nd 1 kn0w th@t 1 @m @ VT. 1'm try1ng t0 g3t s0m3 r3@ds 0n th3 r3st 0f th3 pl@y3rs.

Pl@y3rs wh0 1 @m r3f3rr1ng t0

d@n@k1lls6
1nh1msh@ll1b3
L0bst3rC@t@p6lt

0rd3r m@k3s n0 d1ff3r3nc3.

1s th@t 3@s13r t0 r3@d? B3c@6s3 1ts m6ch 3@s13r t0 typ3. 1'll d0 wh@t3v3r 1s c0nv3n13nt.

[LobsterCatapult]

ok. so, i decided to get my fucking head in this game.

everything fits together now, why MOI had the info on the hoopla kill...spyrex sheeping...and MOI's neighbor buddy. i usually would risk that MOI is smart enough to recognize spy-scum in the qt when he saw it. however...im not so sure. everytime i keep reading this, i keep discovering other shit going on.

like i really dont like your hoopla vig-shot.

@spyrex, is your other counterpart to your neighborhood dead?

i still dont understand junox's ability. i....ugh, have never really understood this "dishonorable-vig" thing. i think junox is....probably town. empking trying to use his gambit on neruz is hilarious, however i dont see junox being scum with empking.

however...i can totally understand why scum wouldnt rb junox. because of this exact case that spyrex is bringing up. scum woudlnt waste a rb on junox ever because junox has been hitting town all game. OR they could just claim that they rbed him, without actually having to do so. its just wifom. Junox's ability is probably the DUMBEST thing that scum could rb. because he KILLS town. I dont see why scum would rb you tonight while going into tomorrow, since if we did mislynch spyrex today, with your dishonorable vig not hitting, i'd be pretty fucking surprised if town put any stock into what junox was selling d7

Now, the only scenarios i see with junox and spyrex both being town together is:

1)junox was redirected to another player, probable scum.
2)spyrex was protected last night.
3)scum is dumb

im...leaning that spyrex could have fooled MOI in the neighborood.

@robo, why are you now thinking spyrex is town? im SORT of leaning null/town on robo, if only because he is putting forth effort to try to make his posts more legible.

i think gamma is town. he practically served empking into oblivion. and im a tad surprised he isn't voting me.

@gamma, important question: do you think its scummy that junox didnt comment on empking using his own failed gambit as a legit investigation tool against neruz?

fos:spyrex

ill think of this more tonight.

but. i think robo is an easy target. an easy target as scum or town, not sure, but, im not willing to get on his wagon right now.

also not sure about inhim.

[Gammagooey]

@Robo-kk, thanks- I get that you don't have a strong read on any of those three but did you have any weak or gut read on them while you were reading through everything? And the symbols/numbers in place of numbers does make it way easier to read so <3.

@Lobster- Yeah Iiii'm pretty sure I'd be voting you right now if it wasn't for Junox's shenanigans today. Don't think Junox is scummy for not mentioning Empking- they actually did mention him and his Neruz-votes when talking about Neruz, saying that it was pretty obvious what Emp was voting for I think around the time that Neruz was forgetting that Junox and Juls and Rhinox were all the same person.

Plus I didn't think that Empking's votes themselves were very scummy, for me it was more him bringing up the cop stuff over and over again as a justification for his vote on Neruz and his responses to pressure- I think the best way to explain it is that I thought Emp's posts there were scummy because even though they weren't relevant to whether Neruz was scum or not anymore Empking kept on pushing them into discussion to make his vote reasoning look stronger and not go into detail on why he thought Neruz was scum.

And also I still don't think Junox's Neruz fake-kill gambit came from scum so yeah.

[LobsterCatapult]

@Robo-kk, thanks- I get that you don't have a strong read on any of those three but did you have any weak or gut read on them while you were reading through everything? And the symbols/numbers in place of numbers does make it way easier to read so <3.

@Lobster- Yeah Iiii'm pretty sure I'd be voting you right now if it wasn't for Junox's shenanigans today. Don't think Junox is scummy for not mentioning Empking- they actually did mention him and his Neruz-votes when talking about Neruz, saying that it was pretty obvious what Emp was voting for I think around the time that Neruz was forgetting that Junox and Juls and Rhinox were all the same person.

Plus I didn't think that Empking's votes themselves were very scummy, for me it was more him bringing up the cop stuff over and over again as a justification for his vote on Neruz and his responses to pressure- I think the best way to explain it is that I thought Emp's posts there were scummy because even though they weren't relevant to whether Neruz was scum or not anymore Empking kept on pushing them into discussion to make his vote reasoning look stronger and not go into detail on why he thought Neruz was scum.

And also I still don't think Junox's Neruz fake-kill gambit came from scum so yeah.

hmmm

i still dont really like it. what do you think about empking and his interactions with his votes on inhim and vigging inhim over me?

[Gammagooey]

Iiii don't remember anything special going Empking->inhims, inhims VCA pointing at Empking as the most likely scum is the biggest thing I remember in the other direction and although it wasn't anything groundbreakingly different from MoI's it doesn't make me want to noose him. Aaaand I've got a weak town read on him from the magnificent power of GUT.

[Seraphim]

Vote Count:

SpyreX(3)

- Junox, Gammagooey, danakillsu

Robocopter87(1)

- SpyreX

Not Voting(4)

- LobsterCatapult, inHimshallibe, Neruz, Robocopter87

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2011-08-21 12:36:28)

[Robocopter87]

@Robo-kk, thanks- I get that you don't have a strong read on any of those three but did you have any weak or gut read on them while you were reading through everything? And the symbols/numbers in place of numbers does make it way easier to read so <3.

N0t r3@lly. @nd th3 p30pl3 1 s6sp3ct3d d13d.

1t w@s @ t0t@l cr@pst0rm.

J6st @ b6nch 0f m0nk3ys fl1ng1ng cr@p.

1 w@nt @ct6@l g@m3pl@y. @ct6@l @tt3mpts t0 pl@y th1s g@m3.

S0 y3@h. St1ll w@1t1ng 0n th3 0th3r tw0.

[SpyreX]

Remind me when I have more time to really hack into LC's post because its inherently backwards.

[LobsterCatapult]

I've decided to ISO dana and Inhim

from these results i feel that dana is a lot more scummy, and inhim is nullish/town.

dana, to me, is scummy for:
his apprehension on the empking hammer,
his vote on rikana
his 238 is strange as well.
his 378 is also seemingly scummy as well in regards to posting restrictions.

inhim is slight townie for:
i like his 325 when refrencing cdog.
his VC, I'm not sure if scum would really put that much effort into the game, but wifom i guess
his 993, doenst read to me as something scum would say either.

@inhim, what do you think of spyrex?

im not entirely sure why my reasoning is backwards, but ive been accused of similar things before so fire away spyrex.

[Gammagooey]

@Mod- Please prod inhims.

Still fine with SpyreX becoming the deads.

[SpyreX]

I forgot all about here thanks for making it move up my bookmarks:

however...i can totally understand why scum wouldnt rb junox. because of this exact case that spyrex is bringing up. scum woudlnt waste a rb on junox ever because junox has been hitting town all game. OR they could just claim that they rbed him, without actually having to do so. its just wifom. Junox's ability is probably the DUMBEST thing that scum could rb. because he KILLS town. I dont see why scum would rb you tonight while going into tomorrow, since if we did mislynch spyrex today, with your dishonorable vig not hitting, i'd be pretty fucking surprised if town put any stock into what junox was selling d7

Except for the simple fact I'm saying directly that Junox WAS RB'd to get us to this situation. With the margins tight creating a mislynch here especially when scum (Sath) was a probable shot/lynch in the cycle nukes Junox's credibility by actively showing there's an RB in play AND sets up for leaving Junox free tomorrow under the "I hit scum (RB'd)" or "I shot another town (good)".

Doing this NOW may be a tiny bit premature but its a last ditch effort considering the decimation that has occured scumside.

Which makes this:

Now, the only scenarios i see with junox and spyrex both being town together is:

1)junox was redirected to another player, probable scum.
2)spyrex was protected last night.
3)scum is dumb

A load.

How you managed to turn what I said into the opposite and then use it as fuel for scenarios that are FAR less unlikely than "The vig who if they don't kill generates a mislynch got RB'd" I dont even know.

[inHimshallibe]

WHOOPS.

SpyreX, sorry hon, this reads like a last gasp for breath from a dying scum.

[SpyreX]

Don't you start on me.

I'm always irritated when I get lynched. I'm glad that THIS isn't unrecoverable at least.

Its far more irritating watching Sath and LC (who I think is the illustrious partner after that junk) skate by.

Can you promise me this inHim? Tomorrow will you get Sath lynched for me? Don't let this stupid RB business repeat itself.

[LobsterCatapult]

I forgot all about here thanks for making it move up my bookmarks:

Except for the simple fact I'm saying directly that Junox WAS RB'd to get us to this situation. With the margins tight creating a mislynch here especially when scum (Sath) was a probable shot/lynch in the cycle nukes Junox's credibility by actively showing there's an RB in play AND sets up for leaving Junox free tomorrow under the "I hit scum (RB'd)" or "I shot another town (good)".

Doing this NOW may be a tiny bit premature but its a last ditch effort considering the decimation that has occured scumside.

Which makes this:

A load.

How you managed to turn what I said into the opposite and then use it as fuel for scenarios that are FAR less unlikely than "The vig who if they don't kill generates a mislynch got RB'd" I dont even know.

yeah. except i dont see why scum would actually roleblock here, and why they'd be tempted to save it till now, especially with the chance that they would hit town. it doesnt make sense to me.

@junox, why did you target spyrex? and what do you think of dana(who is v/La)?

[Junox]

It was primarily me (Juls) that pulled the trigger but Rhinox had his suspicions too.

1) last game I played with spyrex he was so town it made your teeth hurt. This game he has been planted firmly in Nullville.
2) I could see spyrex leaving me alive because he would think I would never target him and he could just throw this scenario out of a role block if I ever did.
3) We had misgivings about the timing of the smoking jump. It looked like a bus.

I was v/la for most of the last day but rhinox tended to think Dana was town based on the appearance of general confusion over what empking would flip.