Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[Human Sequencer]

TF, what's the scum motivation for me defending Drone?

[TwoFace]

why do you think you defending drone has anything to do with anything?

scum motivation for defending drone if he is town - buddying/white knighing
scum motivation for defending drone if he is scum - want to protect your scum buddy.

like why do you ask a silly question? (I self edited myself here, ya'll would be really proud of me)

you defending drone the last page has absolutely no effect on my existing scum read on you.

[Drone]

Would it help you understand that I don't even read your posts? I'm just taking a taste of the, seeing they're worthless and continue.
Honestly? You got to the level I no longer fucking care if you're a pr.
A pr in your hands is like having an extra scum.
You're bad, you've got attitude problems, you can't work posts into something understandable, or control your goddamn choice of words.

We're lynching him today, or I replace out.

[Human Sequencer]

Why would scumHuman buddy townDrone, especially considering post 358 and his subsequent reasoning of it?

It goes against scumHuman's motivations because scumHuman wants to lynch townies, and that was an angle they could use to target another townie.

If I'm scum, why are you even listening to anything I have to say? Doesn't the fact that I helped you in your reasoning to not lynch town give me at least some town points?
I'm just trying to convince you that MAYBE you're not 100% infallible like you seem to think you are. You could be wrong, I could be wrong. Opinions can change in light of recent events, and your reads should fluctuate accordingly. Look at how my reads have organically moved throughout the game. You've stayed gunned on me whole fucking game for little justification, but whatever I suppose I'm dying tonight because of it anyway so I shouldn't even bother finishing this post that was trying to win you over.

Just because somebody disagrees with you, and just because you got into an argument with somebody over fickle semantics doesn't regard them as scum. There's more to it than that.
idk. Whatever.

PEDIT: Yeah that
Don't like the 'I'll just replace out :^)' threat though, but I completely understand

[ChaosOmega]

I'm back, sorry for the extended absence. Reading through stuff as we speak.

Will go on the record now to say I'm super against a HS lynch, and I won't be voting there at all today.

[Human Sequencer]

I'm finally getting people who are actually thinking this game through. People like Kamelot, Drone and Chaos. I knew you'd pull through.

[ArcAngel9]

I like Arc more than I liked TB to be honest. But maybe that's just because they don't like HS.

Arc, can you summarize your case for TwoFace? Why are you scum reading him? do you have any townreads?

Did you try ISO me? I have been pointing my finger at him since my initial catch up post. Although my initial reads were not strong but the way he has created options to hop into my wagon seems suspicious. I could be wrong but the way he wanted to dominate the argument verbally seems unfair but am glad it has happened because i do see his aggression genuine but at this moment, I am two minds about his slot.

How about your focus on scum hunting than clinging on to your neverending support to my wagon?

I'm not clinging to anything. We were having a conversation. I'll gladly end it if you don't want to conversation anymore. Conversations are useful.

Bye Felicia.

Wrong. I want conversation that doesn't include abuses and insults. Let's have a scum hunting conversation instead. I am up for it.

And you think people who are not productive are scum? and the others are town?

My read on you is null. You aren't helping me read you better because of you're lack of content. If a null read gets lynched, I'm ok with that though it's not my preferred. But I'm voting my preferred.

Can we go back to how I was supposedly hopping on wagons when I've only voted 2 people. That's a blatant misrep.

I never you said you're voting, i was referring to your options to hop on to various wagons seems scummy.

I don't like the Arc wagon. No one has provided a case for her other than she's not doing anything but she stated she's on page 20 and is still struggling to catch-up. With that being said, I haven't seen anything that has made me say "she's town, don't lynch her" but I do like her little spat with Nero and her description of how he is seems accurate so far. Hate her thoughts on TF's but I don't think she intentionally lied about how she believes he's bleeding scum, seems more like frustration and a misunderstanding. I'd wish she'd just shut up and finish catching up though as it's confusing as to why she's defending herself from people voting for her mainly from her predecessors play.

I want to see her thoughts on everyone not HS, Nero, RK, and TF before going forward with her and some attempts to actual scum hunt. If I don't see either of the two by tomorrow evening, I'm willing to compensate.

I am well aware that i missed a part of game that i am yet to cover. And I dont want people to misinterpret that i am lurking so i decided to roll myself in the current game and go back if necessary or when i get enough time to review the game. So who else you're willing to compesate to lynch apart from me?

Finally a wagon I can completely get behind.

VOTE: ArcAngel

@Nero, votes outside of votetags aren't counted by this mod.

This reads so opportunistic and I'm struggling to see your side here because you're still using your thoughts on TB in order to try lynch Arc, which makes no sense and doesn't feel like town play to me.

In newbie 1744 we used this to literally lynch scum. We got two scum back to back after losing both PRs day 1.
I understand why you carry the perspective you do, but you should try to understand mine too. I think there's a lot of value in evaluating the actions of that slot's predecessor.
There's also no way this was 'opportunistic' because I've stated about twenty gorrilion times I want to lynch TB's slot.

Mort, I believe in you and your ability to find the scum after I flip or after Road flips or etc, but I don't believe in your ability to convince the rest of town or survive through the nightkills even if you get on the right tack.

This post reads off to me. Mainly the last part, it's like you know Mort is on the wrong path or is going to be killed during the night.

I literally can't say anything in this game. I've got like eight crosshairs reading everything I say as if I'm confScum.
If I'm lynched today -please- remember those read posts I made earlier.

I buy your case but do you know that TB is a newbie and a very bad player. How you dont want to give a benefit of doubt on that seems you dont want to purse scum hunting on my case instead you made up your mind on the slot which makes me feel that you probably scum

I will admit my TF green lens is weakening, but I need more time to formulate that.
Especially if arc is green.
If arc is green I'll be confused but I'll probably be on Twoface's tail.

why do you read TF as scum now? Can you summarize it in a better format?

I still stand by what I said about TB. I think it's very relevant to interpreting her slot.

Arc is really abrasive and forward. I'm still sorting out how I interpret her, but I feel like her suddenly trying to flip a wagon against me, an easy target, isn't a good sign. Her claiming I had no lead or reasoning isn't legitimate, because I've put forward my thoughts on TB many times.
>inb4 people complain because I'm sring arc based on TB again
That's how I interpret the slot. I understand you interpret it differently.

Arc is a lot greener than TB though. The read is weakening. Which is bad because now I don't have any scum slots I'd really be willing to lynch, and I'm worried it might stay like that before day ends.
I'm gonna iso Drone and Wobbs soon to get a better perspective on them.

PS Arc, I don't mean to offend you in any way, I'm just playing the game.

PSS Twoface, nice reddit-tier meme! You really outmemed her! You must be a meme master!

No offense taken, I am a practical person and understand other views. I voted you because scum always find easy way to hop on, i dont know if this is your general play style or immpractical method to scum hunt but i see it very scummy. I hope you get my point of view on you.

783
Should have caused you to unvote.

Who was this directed at and why would that cause somebody to unvote?

Soft claiming a pr should at LEAST get votes off, questioning is the answer to deal with that.
The boy is scum guys.

And for Uzi:
I don't know if TF is scum, I'm not reading him well due to his nature. Either way, a TF lynch is best lynch.
I'm all in to that.

Who has softclaimed, I am bit confused. TF claimed a PR? Why?

[ArcAngel9]

VOTE: Unvote

[TwoFace]

Why would scumHuman buddy townDrone, especially considering post 358 and his subsequent reasoning of it?

It goes against scumHuman's motivations because scumHuman wants to lynch townies, and that was an angle they could use to target another townie.

If I'm scum, why are you even listening to anything I have to say? Doesn't the fact that I helped you in your reasoning to not lynch town give me at least some town points?
I'm just trying to convince you that MAYBE you're not 100% infallible like you seem to think you are. You could be wrong, I could be wrong. Opinions can change in light of recent events, and your reads should fluctuate accordingly. Look at how my reads have organically moved throughout the game. You've stayed gunned on me whole fucking game for little justification, but whatever I suppose I'm dying tonight because of it anyway so I shouldn't even bother finishing this post that was trying to win you over.

Just because somebody disagrees with you, and just because you got into an argument with somebody over fickle semantics doesn't regard them as scum. There's more to it than that.
idk. Whatever.

PEDIT: Yeah that
Don't like the 'I'll just replace out :^)' threat though, but I completely understand

you know what, I don't even know anymore. If you're town you have done a lot of things that don't make sense to me. I realize that I could absolutely wrong about you, That's part of the game. But we are at a point where deadline is approaching soon and somebody has to be lynched. My original list of reads from way back were Wobbufft/you/drone/Misa - I later added naomi into the list and have just recently said that I would be ok with arc although that's not my preferred.

I am not going to compromise myself when i don't have to. You are my 2nd most scum read and my 1st is not likely to be lynched so that's where I am voting.

[TwoFace]

Wrong. I want conversation that doesn't include abuses and insults

and I want a conversation that doesn't include lies/misreps yet that's what you did.

sorry if I used too colorful language with you, I keep forgetting I am not in kansas anymore.

[ArcAngel9]

Would it help you understand that I don't even read your posts? I'm just taking a taste of the, seeing they're worthless and continue.
Honestly? You got to the level I no longer fucking care if you're a pr.
A pr in your hands is like having an extra scum.
You're bad, you've got attitude problems, you can't work posts into something understandable, or control your goddamn choice of words.

We're lynching him today, or I replace out.

Replacing out doesn't help town. if you're town don't make hasty decisions.

why do you think you defending drone has anything to do with anything?

scum motivation for defending drone if he is town - buddying/white knighing
scum motivation for defending drone if he is scum - want to protect your scum buddy.

like why do you ask a silly question? (I self edited myself here, ya'll would be really proud of me)

you defending drone the last page has absolutely no effect on my existing scum read on you.

Drone also defending me, I am bit confused here. you think HS is scum is because he is buddying up with Drone or Drone scum because he is defending people out of his way. He was defending me too. I see your point that scum would love to defend town to gain brownie points but you need to be lot clearer than this.

[TwoFace]

I never you said you're voting, i was referring to your options to hop on to various wagons seems scummy.

yeah that still isn't true.

[ArcAngel9]

Wrong. I want conversation that doesn't include abuses and insults

and I want a conversation that doesn't include lies/misreps yet that's what you did.

sorry if I used too colorful language with you, I keep forgetting I am not in kansas anymore.

I am not worried about your fashionable abuses. I am still concerned about your style of scum hunting.

Lies. Seriously? Time and again i am repeating that what i meant was the options you kept to hop my wagon was scummy. Please stop misunderstanding my actions.

[ArcAngel9]

I never you said you're voting, i was referring to your options to hop on to various wagons seems scummy.

yeah that still isn't true.

You're being stubborn. That's all i can say.

[TwoFace]

Drone also defending me, I am bit confused here. you think HS is scum is because he is buddying up with Drone or Drone scum because he is defending people out of his way. He was defending me too. I see your point that scum would love to defend town to gain brownie points but you need to be lot clearer than this.

As I said in the post you just quoted, I don't think HS defending drone has anything to do with my already existing scum read on him.

[TwoFace]

I never you said you're voting, i was referring to your options to hop on to various wagons seems scummy.

yeah that still isn't true.

You're being stubborn. That's all i can say.

yes I can be stubborn but that doesn't change what you said.

can you please point out which various wagons you are referring to? Help me understand your pov cause from my perspective it looks like a lie

[Human Sequencer]

'I buy your case but do you know that TB is a newbie and a very bad player. How you dont want to give a benefit of doubt on that seems you dont want to purse scum hunting on my case instead you made up your mind on the slot which makes me feel that you probably scum'
Well, I hadn't already made up my mind on the slot, because as I said recently, I'm starting to view you as less scummy the more you post.
Beyond that, I really do think that TB's actions were more likely to come from new scum instead of new town. I've said this about 4^99 times now.

'I voted you because scum always find easy way to hop on, i dont know if this is your general play style or immpractical method to scum hunt but i see it very scummy. I hope you get my point of view on you.'
This wasn't just an 'easy way to hop on' though. I was ready for this wagon for a very long time. I've stated my detailed case on TB twice now, once from before I voted.

'why do you read TF as scum now? Can you summarize it in a better format?'
I don't read TF as scum now, my interpretation has gone from 'obvTown' to 'maybeTown'.

TF has pretty much claimed vig at this point and claims he'll shoot Wobbs or maybe me tonight because he's immaturely pissed off and bitter about an argument he had with copper, the person who was in that slot previously.

It's worth noting that if we get one one kill tonight, TF is then very very suspicious, and only a few fringe doctor cases or other niche stuff like that could save him from definitely being scum.

[ArcAngel9]

Drone also defending me, I am bit confused here. you think HS is scum is because he is buddying up with Drone or Drone scum because he is defending people out of his way. He was defending me too. I see your point that scum would love to defend town to gain brownie points but you need to be lot clearer than this.

As I said in the post you just quoted, I don't think HS defending drone has anything to do with my already existing scum read on him.

Can you help me see your real case on HS. I would love to refer that. Sorry if i am sounding like a lazy person but i am doing this for different reasons.

[Human Sequencer]

I should also mention, he also has some pretty valid points on Wobbs.**

[TwoFace]

It's worth noting that if we get one one kill tonight, TF is then very very suspicious, and only a few fringe doctor cases or other niche stuff like that could save him from definitely being scum.

this is a bad post

[Human Sequencer]

He'll just call you lazy and complain a bunch. Here.

Spoiler:

ok so I voted Copper because I agreed with Mort that this post was bad - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8478254

I explain why i think it is bad here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8480817

Here is more explanation from me why I had an issue with his post - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8481099

He looks worse when he falsely accuses me of being flip floppy yet the 2 posts he quotes are me basically saying the same thing.- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8481161

This post is really bad because he misreps the reason why I am voting him. yes I disagree with his definition of lynchbait, but it isn't his definition of lynchbait why I think he is scum, it's the fact that he said he would unvote when he got to l-1. As i explain in a post with mort later in the day, if he is actually concerned with the way the wagon is progressing why wait until L-1? why not unvote now. A townie who is uneasy imo would unvote.

argument ensues, his arguments fall flat and don't help change my opinion of him at all.

here is more from me why copper is scum to me -http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8483290

posts 383/383 contain me restating why I think he is scum, which again proves I haven't refused to do anything like scum copper replacement has accused me of

387 - me explaining how copper basically tried to twist my posts

Here is the conversation with Mort. Starts here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8486133 and ends at the end of the page.


So in a nutshell i think he is scum because

1. I felt like his reaction to creepy being L-2 didn't make sense. If he was genuinely concerned he would have unvoted, not say he is keeping his vote but will unvote at L-1
2. He attempted to misrep me by saying my posts about him said 2 different things when they clearly didn't. Even when I point them out and show they say the exact same thing, he refuses to admit his mistake. I may be naive but I am of the belief that scum is less likely to admit their mistakes, town should have no problems admitting theirs.
3. The fact that he jumped on TB after TB voted him and went and lied about his activity. There is no evidence that supports Copper's claim and evidence that proves his claim was not true.

I just don't see a town player doing these things so this is why I think he is scum.


and since I am doing it, My scum read on HS is kind of harder to explain. What pinged me first was the weird drone comment. Drone hadn't even posted and he was asking drone if he agreed with him or something like that. Later HS claims he saw the mod post that drone had confirmed but somehow missed that he was on V/LA which I think is unlikely especially when HS said he wasn't skimming. Even if he were skimming, I doubt he would miss that but when HS said he wasn't skimming I just don't see how he misses it. The fact that he avoided my question about copper lying about TB and now actually sides with Copper about TB when the facts prove them both wrong, just points to scum to me.

I think Drone is scum only if HS is scum. Outside of that I don't have a read on drone

Misa - is scummy to me for the fake outrage post she made, her replacing out doesn't bode well but I don't have enough to lynch her which is why I am not trying to atm

Those are my reads, like them or not they are what they are.

ya'll want to policy lynch me for trying to lynch scum, go right ahead but i haven't done shit wrong except maybe be a little abrasive. Who cares. I am active, I am providing reads, I am scum hunting, and I am providing reasons for my reads. AKA PLAYING THE FUCKING GAME

[ArcAngel9]

'I buy your case but do you know that TB is a newbie and a very bad player. How you dont want to give a benefit of doubt on that seems you dont want to purse scum hunting on my case instead you made up your mind on the slot which makes me feel that you probably scum'
Well, I hadn't already made up my mind on the slot, because as I said recently, I'm starting to view you as less scummy the more you post.
Beyond that, I really do think that TB's actions were more likely to come from new scum instead of new town. I've said this about 4^99 times now.

'I voted you because scum always find easy way to hop on, i dont know if this is your general play style or immpractical method to scum hunt but i see it very scummy. I hope you get my point of view on you.'
This wasn't just an 'easy way to hop on' though. I was ready for this wagon for a very long time. I've stated my detailed case on TB twice now, once from before I voted.

'why do you read TF as scum now? Can you summarize it in a better format?'
I don't read TF as scum now, my interpretation has gone from 'obvTown' to 'maybeTown'.

TF has pretty much claimed vig at this point and claims he'll shoot Wobbs or maybe me tonight because he's immaturely pissed off and bitter about an argument he had with copper, the person who was in that slot previously.

It's worth noting that if we get one one kill tonight, TF is then very very suspicious, and only a few fringe doctor cases or other niche stuff like that could save him from definitely being scum.

I think you kind of mixed up here a bit. But i can read your points.

I am not liking the TF vig claim. Is this real? TF - Why did you claim on day 1. Any specific reason?

[Human Sequencer]

It's worth noting that if we get one one kill tonight, TF is then very very suspicious, and only a few fringe doctor cases or other niche stuff like that could save him from definitely being scum.

this is a bad post

How is it untrue? Maf kills one, where is your kill? I'm just trying to help town tomorrow in the case that I am a dead man tonight.

[ArcAngel9]

He'll just call you lazy and complain a bunch. Here.

Spoiler:

ok so I voted Copper because I agreed with Mort that this post was bad - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8478254

I explain why i think it is bad here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8480817

Here is more explanation from me why I had an issue with his post - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8481099

He looks worse when he falsely accuses me of being flip floppy yet the 2 posts he quotes are me basically saying the same thing.- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8481161

This post is really bad because he misreps the reason why I am voting him. yes I disagree with his definition of lynchbait, but it isn't his definition of lynchbait why I think he is scum, it's the fact that he said he would unvote when he got to l-1. As i explain in a post with mort later in the day, if he is actually concerned with the way the wagon is progressing why wait until L-1? why not unvote now. A townie who is uneasy imo would unvote.

argument ensues, his arguments fall flat and don't help change my opinion of him at all.

here is more from me why copper is scum to me -http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8483290

posts 383/383 contain me restating why I think he is scum, which again proves I haven't refused to do anything like scum copper replacement has accused me of

387 - me explaining how copper basically tried to twist my posts

Here is the conversation with Mort. Starts here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8486133 and ends at the end of the page.


So in a nutshell i think he is scum because

1. I felt like his reaction to creepy being L-2 didn't make sense. If he was genuinely concerned he would have unvoted, not say he is keeping his vote but will unvote at L-1
2. He attempted to misrep me by saying my posts about him said 2 different things when they clearly didn't. Even when I point them out and show they say the exact same thing, he refuses to admit his mistake. I may be naive but I am of the belief that scum is less likely to admit their mistakes, town should have no problems admitting theirs.
3. The fact that he jumped on TB after TB voted him and went and lied about his activity. There is no evidence that supports Copper's claim and evidence that proves his claim was not true.

I just don't see a town player doing these things so this is why I think he is scum.


and since I am doing it, My scum read on HS is kind of harder to explain. What pinged me first was the weird drone comment. Drone hadn't even posted and he was asking drone if he agreed with him or something like that. Later HS claims he saw the mod post that drone had confirmed but somehow missed that he was on V/LA which I think is unlikely especially when HS said he wasn't skimming. Even if he were skimming, I doubt he would miss that but when HS said he wasn't skimming I just don't see how he misses it. The fact that he avoided my question about copper lying about TB and now actually sides with Copper about TB when the facts prove them both wrong, just points to scum to me.

I think Drone is scum only if HS is scum. Outside of that I don't have a read on drone

Misa - is scummy to me for the fake outrage post she made, her replacing out doesn't bode well but I don't have enough to lynch her which is why I am not trying to atm

Those are my reads, like them or not they are what they are.

ya'll want to policy lynch me for trying to lynch scum, go right ahead but i haven't done shit wrong except maybe be a little abrasive. Who cares. I am active, I am providing reads, I am scum hunting, and I am providing reasons for my reads. AKA PLAYING THE FUCKING GAME

Ummm... I am confused on his reads right now but i still dont buy his logic on calling Drone scum only if HS is scum, the argument doesn't stand well.

I waiting for his answer on why he claim VIG on day1

[Human Sequencer]

Is this stupid scum worried that he's drilled himself into a hole he can't escape from w/ his fakeclaim?