In post 1469, JarJarDrinks wrote:But I wont fight a wave lynch since he's not much better and it's infinitely better than performer.
Are we aiming to lynch
scum
, or are we punishing people for their bad play?
I mean, sure.. wave didn't do much (except he has reads, and if he hasn't mentioned someone as a TR then I assume they're in his lynch pool), but the question is: Is he scum? Do you think scum will go "lynch me.. I'm just a VT in a neighborhood, but I'm not telling you who else is in that hood" and then continue to play the same way that got him SR'd in the first place?
In post 1470, Kublai Khan wrote:I'm kinda wavering on Performance. Wavemode is challenging the top levels of the scummy charts.
I don't know if this game is active or coordinated enough to change course though.
What do you mean on Wave there, that could read one of two ways.
Well, scum who claim on Day 1 are in a bad position where they can't do much for their team because they don't know tracker/watcher/etc situation of the town. So I kinda mentally put them on a backburner. But Wavemode's unprompted naming 3 people on his wagon as town feels manipulative and self-serving.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:41 am
by wavemode
so scum want the people on their wagon to be seen as town lmao. okay NOW I've heard the funniest theory for scum!wave
anywho, i'm off work so i'll write up what GE asked for
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:47 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 1479, wavemode wrote:so scum want the people on their wagon to be seen as town lmao.
That's not what he said. He said it was manipulative and self-serving. As in you're trying to buddy up to those people so they back off you.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:55 am
by wavemode
yeah and i'm saying that's literally never self-serving in real life lmao. i don't know what shit kind of newbie games you play in where people back off you because you call them town but that's super awful strategy
in fact im curious, can someone link me an example of that EVER working on ANYONE? even in a newbie game? like, i've literally never heard of that
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:59 am
by JarJarDrinks
U've heard of OMGUS right ? Is it impossible to believe the opposite might have a reverse effect?
Like why does scum buddy?
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:07 am
by wavemode
im not talking about playing devil's advocate for a lynch target. im talking about someone scumreading you and you call them town and then they go "well gee this guy is actually pretty swell". it's a fairy tale
not sure why i even got roped into this debate. ausuka is already conftown and i didn't call dave town, i just said i was maybe leaning that way. so the whole basis of this argument is flawed in two respects, A. that your argument would hold true whether i called these people town OR scum, because it's either omgus or im trying to buddy them, and B. that i literally only called one person on my wagon town, and it's someone i've played a lot of games with Gamma Emerald
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:09 am
by Kublai Khan
In post 1481, wavemode wrote:yeah and i'm saying that's literally never self-serving in real life lmao. i don't know what shit kind of newbie games you play in where people back off you because you call them town but that's super awful strategy
in fact im curious, can someone link me an example of that EVER working on ANYONE? even in a newbie game? like, i've literally never heard of that
You've never heard of subtle emotional manipulations in a mafia game? How long have you been playing mafia?
People don't respond with "well gee this guy is actually pretty swell", but it can be the little nudge that pushes a wavering player to compromise. So, no. I can't link you to an example.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:11 am
by wavemode
response to the fact that the basis of your argument was false in the first place?
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:13 am
by Performer
off topic: someone scumreading you, then you reevaluate them and they're actually townie rather than scum, isn't farfetched. In my game observations and my personal experience , it seems that less-experienced players are more easily paranoid about situations like that, but I don't believe that alone is AI for the wagon victim.
It matters if we look at the context, how they arrived at that conclusion. So, if someone is wagoned, they say "oh, wagoner A is actually town after I reevaluated so and so" - that could be town providing more information for fellow town.
On the other hand, it could be a complex scum strategy. Depends on the situation and how day & the following days unfold, in terms of interactions & flips.
In post 1210, Dunnstral wrote:So because once upon a time a traitor outed their neighborhood in a completely different setup, Ausuka is a traitor in this game for outing her neighborhood
In post 1474, davesaz wrote:It's a tactical mistake to try to change wagons to a completely new one with such an inactive game, so late in the day.
If everyone was posting every 2-3 hours or faster it would be different. At this rate it will be hard enough to consolidate on a big wagon.
Someone's going to make the value proposition point on a Performer lynch. It is true that we get more information there, but I think the probability of it being scum is lower. For the record, I do see the things that Performer is being scumread for and would be willing to compromise there as needed. I can't tell if the town-motivated things I'm seeing from Performer are really coming from town or just scum making a decent effort at trying to save things.
I don't know vaxkiller well enough to know if the vig claim is likely to be a gambit. It would be pretty dangerous to fakeclaim as scum if there is a vig in the game, and equally dangerous to fakeclaim if there isn't one unless lack of a 2nd kill can be easily explained.
you should invest in a good pair of shears for that massive hedge.
scummy, but not for today - there's not enough time.
perf scum flip implicates texcat and dave strongly.
i have a quiet evening tonight for the first time in ages, so i plan to post my consolidated performer case.
there is absolutely zero reason to not lynch him today. all this talk about "information lynch" or "lurker lynch" is all complete and utter bullshit and none of that matters in the face of
lynching actual scum
.
i am so fucking confident performer is scum here, and i wish people would be more attentive and actually look rather than just skimming the surface and chasing idiotic vanity wagons at the 11th hour.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:11 am
by davesaz
WTF are you talking about, hedge?
My position is as clear as day.
I want Wavemode lynched.
If you <insert favorite term for diminished mental capacity folk here> won't lynch Wave then I'm willing to vote for Performer.
I'm absolutely not voting anyone else under any circumstances.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:12 am
by Vaxkiller
At this point ppl need to move to perfomer.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:13 am
by EspeciallyTheLies
TO THE VIG
Proper play in this case is if the lynch flips green, you shoot the competing wagon. If the lynch flips red, you shoot on association or hold your shot if you can.
A good place to look is the voting composition of the competing wagon, especially when it's a strong one with nearly equal votes at their peak. Partners are guaranteed to be there. Look at how the particular votes happened and when - what else was going on in the thread at the time - not just the voter's play as that is obviously going to be deceiving in most cases.
The one thing you DO NOT ever do is announce your target - this gives scum too much information.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:13 am
by EspeciallyTheLies
In post 1493, davesaz wrote:WTF are you talking about, hedge?
My position is as clear as day.
I want Wavemode lynched.
Proper play in this case is if the lynch flips green, you shoot the competing wagon. If the lynch flips red, you shoot on association or hold your shot if you can.
FUCK THAT
You shoot a lurker.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:17 am
by davesaz
Replace out
Done with mafia.
See my sig.
Adios.
Fuck you very much.