In post 1394, Enter wrote:The collective argument against Brigitte is that Reck and Ank think Brigitte's argument is dumb and disagree with it,
Incorrect. The crux of my argument has always been her actions around the fake hammer and how she's approached a scumread of me.
The only reason it comes off that her case is the main point is because it was directly relevant at that time.
Sorry, I must have missed that. Could you link or restate your case for me, then?
Also what do you think of the other players voting you last night? How many of them do you think read and understood that that was the case against Brig?
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 am
by Brigitte
Ank said my reaction to the fake hammer was scummy because I ignored it. Which I didn't see it at the time, and then found out later it was fake and didn't give a reaction.
I was responding to other things than the fake hammer which everyone else was talking about.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 am
by Ankamius
1361 was a snark post.
I was making fun of the fact nobody was talking anymore and that I was going to try to sleep again.
She hasn't successfully spearheaded a push on me so far, a lot of the support she had on me had either evaporated or greatly diminished by then, and her level of towncred isn't enough to charisma her way towards lynching me in the first place.
What exactly am I supposed to be afraid of enough to OMGUS?
I don't think it matters.
First and foremost you should know that you will slip up as scum. And someone who's been sitting on your wagon trying to push your lynch the whole game will get a foothold. All it takes is one wrong move and then you, like Brig, could have a giant wagon of people on you.
Regardless, fear isn't the prime motivating factor. It's much easier to play scum when everyone is townreading you, doesn't it make sense to push mislynches on people that you have experience with being stubborn, that you don't think you can convince to townread you over people who don't particularly care either way or people who do townread you?
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:16 am
by Ankamius
In post 1475, Enter wrote:Sorry, I must have missed that. Could you link or restate your case for me, then?
Also what do you think of the other players voting you last night? How many of them do you think read and understood that that was the case against Brig?
I don't case, that's as much as I've ever gone into it.
I don't think it's a scummy thing to miss. It hasn't convinced anybody so far, so I've mostly shelved bringing it up until I can tell that whoever I'm talking to is receptive to listening.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:17 am
by Enter
Skitter I wanna talk cuz I really don't agree with your Ank townread right now. Are you impressed that she can spam the thread by talking about herself, is that it?
In post 652, xRECKONERx wrote:inc. town flip and nk on me and then herpaderp town letting lurkers skate by to a win
im so fuckin pumped man
Why do you think you would be killed here?
This is the first post I made after the fake hammer. And Ank is arguing since I didn't make a post about the fake hammer, I was to afraid to make a genuine reaction to it because scum don't know how to act around them.
Which seems pretty silly to me.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:19 am
by Brigitte
Ank if most of your scumread is based on that. I have to take back my argument about you copying my reads. That is definitely not an argument I would make.
She hasn't successfully spearheaded a push on me so far, a lot of the support she had on me had either evaporated or greatly diminished by then, and her level of towncred isn't enough to charisma her way towards lynching me in the first place.
What exactly am I supposed to be afraid of enough to OMGUS?
I don't think it matters.
First and foremost you should know that you will slip up as scum. And someone who's been sitting on your wagon trying to push your lynch the whole game will get a foothold. All it takes is one wrong move and then you, like Brig, could have a giant wagon of people on you.
Regardless, fear isn't the prime motivating factor. It's much easier to play scum when everyone is townreading you, doesn't it make sense to push mislynches on people that you have experience with being stubborn, that you don't think you can convince to townread you over people who don't particularly care either way or people who do townread you?
Well... yeah? You
have
to play towards a scum win condition at some point to win as scum, it's impossible otherwise.
I also am quite aware that scumreads are not threats all by themselves simply because they're scumreads. Having myself put in the nullscum-null category actually benefits me as scum because that means I can afford to not be correct or at least try to townlead like a lot of people would expect me to when I'm obvtown
Townreads are a lot more trouble than they're worth unless there's already a townblock that you've managed to infiltrate. So yes, fear is the motivating factor because I'm most afraid of appearing too town or too scum as scum, the null area just gives me a lot more opportunities to get what I want done.
(that's how I view town too btw, unless I specifically need to be locktowned)
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:28 am
by Ankamius
feel free to write that off as self meta instead of referring to it as my overall scumplay philosophy
She hasn't successfully spearheaded a push on me so far, a lot of the support she had on me had either evaporated or greatly diminished by then, and her level of towncred isn't enough to charisma her way towards lynching me in the first place.
What exactly am I supposed to be afraid of enough to OMGUS?
I don't think it matters.
First and foremost you should know that you will slip up as scum. And someone who's been sitting on your wagon trying to push your lynch the whole game will get a foothold. All it takes is one wrong move and then you, like Brig, could have a giant wagon of people on you.
Regardless, fear isn't the prime motivating factor. It's much easier to play scum when everyone is townreading you, doesn't it make sense to push mislynches on people that you have experience with being stubborn, that you don't think you can convince to townread you over people who don't particularly care either way or people who do townread you?
Well... yeah? You
have
to play towards a scum win condition at some point to win as scum, it's impossible otherwise.
I also am quite aware that scumreads are not threats all by themselves simply because they're scumreads. Having myself put in the nullscum-null category actually benefits me as scum because that means I can afford to not be correct or at least try to townlead like a lot of people would expect me to when I'm obvtown
Townreads are a lot more trouble than they're worth unless there's already a townblock that you've managed to infiltrate. So yes, fear is the motivating factor because I'm most afraid of appearing too town or too scum as scum, the null area just gives me a lot more opportunities to get what I want done.
(that's how I view town too btw, unless I specifically need to be locktowned)
How is pushing mislynches on people who want you dead NOT playing towards scum agenda?
If fear is what motivates you here, that's fine. But there are other motivating factors throughout mafia that would give you PLENTY REASON to push a mislynch on Brig here.
In post 1484, Ankamius wrote:feel free to write that off as self meta instead of referring to it as my overall scumplay philosophy
Quote me saying that one of your posts is self-meta when it isn't.
Quote me as twisting your words in this way.
In post 652, xRECKONERx wrote:inc. town flip and nk on me and then herpaderp town letting lurkers skate by to a win
im so fuckin pumped man
Why do you think you would be killed here?
This is the first post I made after the fake hammer. And Ank is arguing since I didn't make a post about the fake hammer, I was to afraid to make a genuine reaction to it because scum don't know how to act around them.
Which seems pretty silly to me.
Let's actually look at what makes it a scummy non-genuine reaction to the scum hammer.
because I'm going to make damn sure urap2 is lynched tomorrow
I don't see how you do that when you are posturing and pretending you have an amazing read there.
^--- These posts are all short, wooden, and to the point. They're there to get the job done and nothing else. There's no emotion here at all or nuance that gives the posts personality.
Understood? Now let's look at your last five posts before the hammer:
Just want you to be engaged because I have hard time reading disengaged <3
i want to be controversial, that i'm not now is the problem.
Enter's towny, skitter's towny, you're towny. even u2 is towny. there's nothing i find particularly in need of correcting. i could be paranoid of one of those but i'm simply not feeling that.
Call urap2 a poop head for moving his vote back to NMSA
I think we can get you two in a fight :)
So you agree on Branson being scum? Have any thoughts that haven't been said on that?
In post 552, Brigitte wrote:I am here for 10 more minutes before I got to do other stuff. Anyone got questions or want to jam. Now is the time.
In post 555, Brigitte wrote:You aren't going to be controversial by calling him nice!
I am gonna have to train you mean girls style :)
Want to talk out the Branson slot pro/con or something? I am really interested in hearing more opposition to scum!Branson right now.
In post 554, u r a person 2 wrote:I just had to check my own iso to make sure I didn't accidently vote nmsa... lol
my vote is on branson atm.
but my fiery gaze has been locked on NMSA the entire time
Wait I said you moved to him? I meant you moved away from him... :oops:
I mean...I tricked you! Ha.
Point for Brigitte.
^--- There's a lot more emotion in these posts, they're worded differently, given more life, etc.
I haven't found a single town that played like that, left the thread for a few pages, and then immediately came back after a supposed hammer and completely changed their posting style while also completely ignoring the hammer that everybody else is paying the most attention to.
It's unnatural.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:37 am
by Brigitte
In post 1488, Ankamius wrote:^--- These posts are all short, wooden, and to the point. They're there to get the job done and nothing else. There's no emotion here at all or nuance that gives the posts personality.
Ummm I was incredibly sick during those posts....
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:37 am
by xRECKONERx
In post 1394, Enter wrote:Not really interested in the Brigitte votes right now.
As far as I'm following, Brigitte's argument is that Ank's scumread of her feels like OMGUS and completely manufactured because it's just the same thing Brigitte said back at her.
The collective argument against Brigitte is that Reck and Ank think Brigitte's argument is dumb and disagree with it,
urap thinks Brig won't give examples of her argument (and wants to lynch her for it?)
skitter... is voting for Brigitte.
OH! and this is actually legit: Reck thinks Brig is trying to keep him from playing the game by being openly antagonistic. I could see this coming from scum, at least slightly, but coming from a large family w/ plenty of younger brothers, it definitely looks like Ank is the antagonist here.
To sum it up:
Ank looks like she played the role of the little brother, poking and prodding the older sibling just enough to get Brig all riled up, and then ran to mom (Reck) and said "older sibling touched me." This looks like it was pretty intentional to me, and I don't like it.
Urap looked kinda like he was trying to help ank bait brig in, too.
No clue what on earth skitter is doing on that wagon.
Reck looks kinda out of the loop, so I'm going to call him town.
I'm really rather interested in a Nim lynch over anything else right now, but if it's going to be Ank or Brig, I think I'd rather it be Ank.
good god could you miss the mark harder if you tried
people are on brigitte because brig is refusing to engage w/ me and instead is just antagonizing me and going "reck isnt reading the game so idc what he says"
and then people are asking brig why she thinks that about me and she's refusing to answer them or give examples
btw if you made more posts about playing philosophy. Wouldn't even critize you for it. Love play philosophy discussions.
the constant self meta is cringe worthy to me though.
This. Philosophy is fun, helps progress the game (sometimes, when done in moderation and when taken in context with the game) and interactive. The other players can try and decipher what you mean, and then read you based on whether or not you seem to be trying to push an agenda with a skewed philosophy.
Self-meta is so useless that "useless" doesn't do it justice. It's not interactive, it spams the thread, and it makes players more likely to skim over your posts and miss something that would significantly help advance a read on you.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:39 am
by Brigitte
In post 1490, xRECKONERx wrote:good god could you miss the mark harder if you triedpeople are on brigitte because brig is refusing to engage w/ me and instead is just antagonizing me and going "reck isnt reading the game so idc what he says"and then people are asking brig why she thinks that about me and she's refusing to answer them or give examples
And people wonder why I say reck isn't reading.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:41 am
by xRECKONERx
again, a town response to this would be "actually ________" with a link to where im wrong but a scum response is to continue discrediting me by saying im not reading
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:41 am
by xRECKONERx
my vote is staying parked on brigitte like until she's dead k bye
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:42 am
by Brigitte
That post was direct proof you haven't been reading.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:42 am
by Ankamius
In post 1487, Enter wrote:How is pushing mislynches on people who want you dead NOT playing towards scum agenda?
Only if my goal is to get this entire 1v1 written off as a TvT deathtunnel, in which case I'd be more than happy to embrace it and use it to derail the entire game away from focusing on either of us.
Having someone who scumreads me but has no credibility left isn't a threat, and that's a relatively easy way to get people to not want to focus on my slot anymore for the foreseeable future, and there's enough potential here to drag this out ad infinitum without the debate actually going anywhere.
The only real threats are if people get fed up and decide to lynch both of us anyway, which wastes a lot of town's time that they can use actually getting information from lynches, or if the lynch gets sidelined into a buddy of mine that is just coasting by otherwise.
people are on brigitte because brig is refusing to engage w/ me and instead is just antagonizing me and going "reck isnt reading the game so idc what he says"
and then people are asking brig why she thinks that about me and she's refusing to answer them or give examples
First of all, that's what I said:
In post 1394, Enter wrote:Reck thinks Brig is trying to keep him from playing the game by being openly antagonistic.
Second:
"sees player getting frustrated"
"tries to engage player getting frustrated"
"player redirects frustration at person trying to engage"
"confused at why you're being targetted with frustration"
This is the argument you believe in?
Recommend you re-examine your argument or try and re-engage Brigitte.
In post 1487, Enter wrote:How is pushing mislynches on people who want you dead NOT playing towards scum agenda?
Only if my goal is to get this entire 1v1 written off as a TvT deathtunnel, in which case I'd be more than happy to embrace it and use it to derail the entire game away from focusing on either of us.
Having someone who scumreads me but has no credibility left isn't a threat, and that's a relatively easy way to get people to not want to focus on my slot anymore for the foreseeable future, and there's enough potential here to drag this out ad infinitum without the debate actually going anywhere.
The only real threats are if people get fed up and decide to lynch both of us anyway, which wastes a lot of town's time that they can use actually getting information from lynches, or if the lynch gets sidelined into a buddy of mine that is just coasting by otherwise.
I'm not seeing much disadvantage with this plan?
You see a disadvantage to the plan of pushing a mislynch on a player that's scumreading you?
What is Occam's Razor?
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:45 am
by Brigitte
I think is arguing that from a scum philosophy pov that getting a lynch on top scumread isn't the biggest priority for scum rather than not getting lynched themselves?
