I also remember jester + Jackson townread after my push (which was trying to pressure a response) early-game on duppin, and duppin just pretty much became UTR
Taylor might not be happening but if duppin is red, Taylor pushing wagon onto them is very townie
overall Taylor + Grendel slot still leans scum
it’s sad that all my scumreads arent becoming actual wagons but I want a lim to go through
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:23 pm
by NorwegianboyEE
This might be an unpopular opinion, but i think Saudade was sufficiently scummy pre-VLA to justify having him as a wagon.
I would like for him to return soon though.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:32 pm
by shellyc
its popular
idrt saude is so scummy as some of you put it but he’s not locktown either so im fine if you need my vote for the wagon to go through
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:50 pm
by NorwegianboyEE
No i mean it's an unpopular opinion to wagon someone that's inactive/VLA.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:03 pm
by duppin
In post 1432, Tayl0r Swift wrote:duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.
hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually
In post 1398, duppin wrote:oh as for my own read on Saudade I said early on why I thought he was slightly suspicious earlier, generally it comes to me getting the impression that he was just trying to be heard and make sure he had a presence without actually attempting to game solve. My initial plan was to just give him some time and wait for him to do something. he and a couple of other players talked about him having good reads and I have to admit I thought it was a bit odd how he kept talking about his own good reads while also saying he had no real reads yet since it is early on in the game. Don't get me wrong it obviously makes sense for him to not have good reads yet and it is definitely not fair for me to call him out for that, but i think you will agree that it is harder to fake good reads as scum which was why I wanted to give him some more time to see if he would come with these so called "god reads", but then a little later norwee decided to vote on him which I did not expect, but I decided to join the wagon since I thought it would be interesting to see what would happen. Unfortunately he had to deal with some real life stuff which made the push rather lackluster in my opinion
Why is this post so weird? It sounds defensive and unnatural explaining his own logic/thought process at the time. Maybe it's just the wording that's pinging me.
I am unsure as to why you think it is defensive and unnatural. I like to explain my logic and thinking, it's also the same reason why I often read people the same way.
In post 1403, duppin wrote:am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.
Why does that come from a town perspective rather than scum trying to find scummy things to point out from every player?
A town perspective doesn't normally involve finding everyone sus at one point or another in such a short space of time. There's a lot more town than scum in the setup.
Sure it could be, but generally I just believe it is more likely to be a town tell. It sounds to me that the main scumreads on her are based on her aggressiveness and I just don't think aggressiveness is really a scumtell
bugspray: I explained it in 621 as well(it's related to everything I talked about before that as well though regarding policy lynching etc). as I have said he is definitely dropped off a bit but I still believe he is town.
Jester: I made my stance very clear early on regarding selfvotes and policy lynching. There wasn't really any support for it, so I decided to ISO him and I thought he was pretty town. Main reason for this was him being a leading voice by trying to game solve but also just me finding his thoughts to be very logical and him catching on to some of the same things I did (like the shelly thing I asked her to follow up on; Jester initially questioned this and when shelly did not respond to him he brought it up again even though it seemed like she might have tried to change the subject. I really thought that was a town thing to do especially since I was bothered by the same thing)
Norwee: Early on I went a bit back and forth on him but I thought his interactions with Saudade was pretty town and I quite liked his response to Saudade calling him out. I think overall his play has been rather pro town - I don't really agree with all of his reads but to this is a bit like with Jester in the sense that we seem to notice the same things, best example would be both of us finding it very questionable how people could have a townread on Saudade.
actually I'd also like to hear your scumread on me
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:08 pm
by duppin
In post 1473, shellyc wrote:
will tentatively jump on duppin wagon since after revisiting their ISO didn’t look very good. they’re a big null and I want to pressure them
your progression on me is really difficult to follow to be honest, but i will bite. Why do you think my ISO looks bad?
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:11 pm
by shellyc
My lim order goes like this now
Taylor
Jackson
Saudade
Duppin
Redados=Noraa
I don’t really know what to make of duppin’s TR on me which is pretty controversial
idrt duppinVtaylor is town vs town and I think it’s likely TvS aorn
p-edit: give me some time to Quote Things and make a big ugly quote wall
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:23 pm
by shellyc
Spoiler: duppin iso
47 disencouraging scum reads? giving their partners an excuse to Not Do Solving?
wants to policy lim jester? which doesn’t really make sense from a town pov since you seemingly believe town!jester but want to give yourself a reason to get out of that? idk
SR redados TR bugspray - but then thinks bugs might be “distancing” with jester? which is contradictory
SR redados for apparently “avoiding confrontation” which is more of a personality tell tbh 640 subtly defends Taylor (Grendel) for shading everyone or lack of confidence in TRs? which is kinda illogical since idrt “lack of confidence” is a way to justify scummy behaviour
duppin opportunistic wagon hopping and voting saude despite wanting me to elaborate on the meta read and I followed up
Being hostile to redados for not pushing wagons. if everyone pushes a wagon its impossible to get a elimination in. some people have to wagon on other existing wagons since this is majority Lynch 1020 states noraa is fluffing and LHF which might be an attempt to justify a noraa vote later? kinda more of a question mark
prodding multiple people to give thoughts could be interpreted as LAMIST-y
now thinks saude is vla and we should all go off
the thing about prodding me to get back to my “confidence” thingy might be a rolefish?
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:24 pm
by shellyc
you will notice most of this is speculation from my end, this is why I am not heavily scum reading you but I am watchlisting you of sorts
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 pm
by duppin
Hm I see. Yes I was just about to say that this seems more like a conf bias as in it seems like you tried to evulate everything i did as if i was coming from a scum perspective rather than finding the action itself scummy. an example would be regarding my policy push on jester, i was not townreading him when i was trying to push for the policy lynch, i dropped my policy lynch push after i townread him. i do appreciate the fact that you admitted to this though
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:47 am
by Odd Day Jester
shelly, I'm not insanely confident you're scum anymore, but the early stuff which made me strongly think you were scum still happened, and I can't just disregard it. You're a less confident scumread than before, so alongside Tayl0r and Saudade.
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:50 am
by Odd Day Jester
Thanks for your answers, duppin. I think I got a far different vibe from you early game when you voted me advocated policing self-voters, I'd slotted you into a certain archetype of rigid/stubborn player, but your tone and the way you explain things is actually very different. You're tentative and apprehensive in your explanations. I don't know whether it's AI though.
In post 1479, duppin wrote:i assume that this is aimed at me, but I never said VCA had anything to do with my read on you so what are you referring to?
This was directed at Plus(JOYED). Would still like you to address the VCA thing when you can, +.
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:52 am
by Odd Day Jester
Honestly, shelly is efforting so much that she'll hopefully just spew herself as town/scum further down the line. It really does feel like this is her scummeta based on what I've seen, mostly from stuff she did early on, buuuut I'll shelve this for a bit.
VOTE: Tayl0r
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:57 am
by Odd Day Jester
In post 1476, NorwegianboyEE wrote:This might be an unpopular opinion, but i think Saudade was sufficiently scummy pre-VLA to justify having him as a wagon.
I would like for him to return soon though.
Yeah, let's wait for Saudade or his replacement to return before we do any launching.
Get your catapults ready anyway.
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:03 am
by duppin
In post 1488, Odd Day Jester wrote:Thanks for your answers, duppin. I think I got a far different vibe from you early game when you voted me advocated policing self-voters, I'd slotted you into a certain archetype of rigid/stubborn player, but your tone and the way you explain things is actually very different. You're tentative and apprehensive in your explanations. I don't know whether it's AI though.
i have never heard anyone describe me like that before actually. i havent had time to play hear for a year or so, so admittedly i might be a bit rusty which might affect the way i come across at times, but i think if that is your impression of my style it is very much a possibility you are going to change your read on me several times throughout the game assuming we are both alive, since i am not sure believe it is correct
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:10 am
by Odd Day Jester
Alright, I'm looking forward to seeing your different flavours. I hope I don't have to wait too long to see enraged!duppin, or zany!duppin, or duppin!duppin.
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:14 am
by duppin
the most important thing is probably that i mainly care and read into logic, so while i may not agree with all of your or norwee conclusions i think the logic is good and that your consistent which is why i believe both of you are more likely to be town
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:16 am
by duppin
it's also why my townread on shelly is not as strong as the others because i dont really follow most of her logic, but her tone and aggressivenes to me just resemble more of a townplay. to me it does not come across as her having an agenda. You seem to suggest it is part of her scum meta, but could you explain what you think is different compared to her townmeta then?
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:30 am
by Odd Day Jester
See, that's where you're wrong, duppin. If you looked at shelly's meta you'd realise she's aggressive and unpredictable in all of her scumgames.
The difference to me between scum and town game for her is that she is far more reasonable and unsure about herself in her town game, she's less confident, and less cocky.
shelly, still waiting on that reason you were holding for you doing something special this game. Remind me if you said you were going to reveal it during this day phase?
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:35 am
by shellyc
scum role fishing hmmmmmmm
nah im revealing it whenever I want to or I need to
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:36 am
by shellyc
jester when did you start scum reading Grendel/Taylor?
that isn’t a valid team solve as I’ve been screaming for Taylors blood this whole game
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:37 am
by Odd Day Jester
Oh, it has something to do with your role. I figured it was a playstyle choice you'd decided on pregame.
We should drop this topic.
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:38 am
by duppin
i dont know Jester, I could try to read some more games from her I guess.