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[Nathann]

All I see are a bunch of excuses and a lot of dead Town. If your vote for AliceK was truly driven by deadline pressure, why didn’t you vote Kazyan earlier? That reasoning makes no sense.

I voted Kazyan earlier. Then I realized they softed a power role, and tried to give them an opening where I would Townread them for whatever they said and jump off. But right after I posted that, I got a headache and forgot about this game - I think around this time you jumped onto the wagon and it started gaining traction, I think I unvoted some time later, but I don't remember exactly when without checking. The reason why I wasn't voting Kazyan after that was because they were softing power role, and I tried to build a new wagon on Enchant, that failed.

[Andresvmb]

@Nathann DW has unvoted DGB. What do you make of that?

[Andresvmb]

And do you think Town softs a PR there, avoids execution, and then doesn’t get NK’ed but Kyouko [VT] does? What does that tell you?

[Andresvmb]

Fascinating that the Watcher Claim or the Backup Watcher Claim are both left alive (the Watcher Claim obviously now retracted from a player that’s now lied twice about their Role), but the player that softed a Role (and is not pushed thereafter) is left around, even after attracting a lot of TRs from putting in effort. Fascinating isn’t it?

[Andresvmb]

Either the Scum know the Watcher is fake, the claimed and now retracted Watcher is Scum, the Backup Watcher is Scum, or Kazyan is full of shit and Scum. Again, since I believe GrandpaMo is massive execution bait and attracting way too much attention, I’m going to guess Town there. So the other two probably have one Scum. Otherwise one of them would be dead by now. Most likely. No?

[Nathann]

@Nathann DW has unvoted DGB. What do you make of that?

Considering they didn't say anything, nothing.

And do you think Town softs a PR there, avoids execution, and then doesn’t get NK’ed but Kyouko [VT] does? What does that tell you?

Either that Scum doesn't care or believe about power role claims, or that Kazyan is Scum.

VOTE: Kazyan

Fine. We can get a claim.

I'm not sold on the Watchers necessarily having scum since [something about mod wifom], and frankly your push on me is awful, but I guess you have a point.

Do you want me to respond to anything before I go crash?

[Nathann]

For the record, "your push on me is awful" =/= "I think you're Scum for it". At least not right now.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah no my push isn’t awful. There’s plenty of reasons to think you could be Scum.

[Dwlee99]

I unvoted DGB because Andres seems very against it and I think Andres is town so I might as well make sure we don't somehow end up with another random hammer even with us being more careful this time.

[Andresvmb]

Based on you being an unrestricted watcher I'm gonna guess this setup is one of the stupid ones where there's two ninjas or something ridiculous like that. Otherwise scum would just lose instantly if the ninja died D1.

Or GMo is scum and is informed there is no Watcher

I suppose there’s a world where Kyouko was killed for this.

[Nathann]

So far I've heard that I've had awful votes (you only took issues with one, which I think I explained well considering you didn't respond) and not being willing to mindlessly lockTown DGB because of one Townie thing they did on Day 1. What else do you have? Genuine question.

[Dwlee99]

Either the Scum know the Watcher is fake, the claimed and now retracted Watcher is Scum, the Backup Watcher is Scum, or Kazyan is full of shit and Scum. Again, since I believe GrandpaMo is massive execution bait and attracting way too much attention, I’m going to guess Town there. So the other two probably have one Scum. Otherwise one of them would be dead by now. Most likely. No?

If scum don't have a ninja or have two ninjas they have no reason to kill me or GMO. If no ninja they would have instantly known the claim was fake cause he claimed to have watched the night kill target, and if ninjas no reason to kill a role that can't guilty them but would remain as elimination bait.

[Dwlee99]

If scum!GMO he could have been trying to bait watcher to claim to then say he was trying to draw NK but I don't think scum!GMO would do that without even knowing what a watcher is so probably not what happened

[Andresvmb]

If scum don't have a ninja or have two ninjas they have no reason to kill me or GMO. If no ninja they would have instantly known the claim was fake cause he claimed to have watched the night kill target, and if ninjas no reason to kill a role that can't guilty them but would remain as elimination bait.

So if the Scum have 1 Ninja, maybe they NK GMo there despite the fact that multiple players pointed to the implausibility of the crumb (which the Scum probably would have done privately btw). But then, in most other scenarios, they shoot the only other player that’s softed a Role as far as I can remember, and

definitely

not a claimed VT. So why is Kazyan alive? WIFOM?

[Dwlee99]

So thinking about it we for sure for sure have to lock Kazyan into a claim because in one mini I played I started to build a wagon on scum and they softed and avoided it only to claim a guilty in ELO. So I'd like if we can get a claim because the way that all went down is my biggest reservation on Kazyan.

[Andresvmb]

So far I've heard that I've had awful votes (you only took issues with one, which I think I explained well considering you didn't respond) and not being willing to mindlessly lockTown DGB because of one Townie thing they did on Day 1. What else do you have? Genuine question.

Both of your End of Day votes are on Town, and I don’t like your reasoning for your vote on AliceK, and you seem to accepting of a soft you really should be more skeptical of by now.

[Andresvmb]

^too accepting*

[Dwlee99]

If scum don't have a ninja or have two ninjas they have no reason to kill me or GMO. If no ninja they would have instantly known the claim was fake cause he claimed to have watched the night kill target, and if ninjas no reason to kill a role that can't guilty them but would remain as elimination bait.

So if the Scum have 1 Ninja, maybe they NK GMo there despite the fact that multiple players pointed to the implausibility of the crumb (which the Scum probably would have done privately btw). But then, in most other scenarios, they shoot the only other player that’s softed a Role as far as I can remember, and

definitely

not a claimed VT. So why is Kazyan alive? WIFOM?

if 1 ninja they still don't have a reason to kill GMO/me unless ninja gets limmed. I don't know why Kazyan is alive

[Andresvmb]

If scum don't have a ninja or have two ninjas they have no reason to kill me or GMO. If no ninja they would have instantly known the claim was fake cause he claimed to have watched the night kill target, and if ninjas no reason to kill a role that can't guilty them but would remain as elimination bait.

So if the Scum have 1 Ninja, maybe they NK GMo there despite the fact that multiple players pointed to the implausibility of the crumb (which the Scum probably would have done privately btw). But then, in most other scenarios, they shoot the only other player that’s softed a Role as far as I can remember, and

definitely

not a claimed VT. So why is Kazyan alive? WIFOM?

if 1 ninja they still don't have a reason to kill GMO/me unless ninja gets limmed. I don't know why Kazyan is alive

Yeah I guess, but you do get a bit locked into having to NK the Watcher and the Backup on consecutive Nights if the Ninja gets executed, for fear of getting locked into a 1v1 and losing the game. That’s a massive limitation you can address early by simply eliminating one of them early.

[Nathann]

Both of your End of Day votes are on Town, and I don’t like your reasoning for your vote on AliceK, and you seem too accepting of a soft you really should be more skeptical of by now.

I think telling me that I'm scummy for having my yesterday's vote end up being on Town at the End of Day is hugely ignoring the circumstances of how that wagon went down and I think you're better than that.

I still don't see the issue of "voting a lurker when it's between a lurker and a PR soft", though I reckon we're not gonna agree here.

And sure, I like to leave PR claims alone as long as possible. And they were being Townie, so /shrug.

[Dwlee99]

If scum don't have a ninja or have two ninjas they have no reason to kill me or GMO. If no ninja they would have instantly known the claim was fake cause he claimed to have watched the night kill target, and if ninjas no reason to kill a role that can't guilty them but would remain as elimination bait.

So if the Scum have 1 Ninja, maybe they NK GMo there despite the fact that multiple players pointed to the implausibility of the crumb (which the Scum probably would have done privately btw). But then, in most other scenarios, they shoot the only other player that’s softed a Role as far as I can remember, and

definitely

not a claimed VT. So why is Kazyan alive? WIFOM?

if 1 ninja they still don't have a reason to kill GMO/me unless ninja gets limmed. I don't know why Kazyan is alive

Yeah I guess, but you do get a bit locked into having to NK the Watcher and the Backup on consecutive Nights if the Ninja gets executed, for fear of getting locked into a 1v1 and losing the game. That’s a massive limitation you can address early by simply eliminating one of them early.

I think scum had to know that GMO wasn't actually watcher or didn't care. Which is why I think we are in 0 ninja or 2 ninja world

[Andresvmb]

I think telling me that I'm scummy for having my yesterday's vote end up being on Town at the End of Day is hugely ignoring the circumstances of how that wagon went down and I think you're better than that.

That’s clearly not what I’ve done but okay.

[Andresvmb]

And sure, I like to leave PR claims alone as long as possible. And they were being Townie, so /shrug.

A claimed VT died with three players softing or claiming Roles, and then a player reveals they lied about their Role, but you largely ignore all of that and vote DGB despite agreeing that their ISO is messy and some of the activity could be coming from Town. Why should I TR you?

[Nathann]

I think telling me that I'm scummy for having my yesterday's vote end up being on Town at the End of Day is hugely ignoring the circumstances of how that wagon went down and I think you're better than that.

That’s clearly not what I’ve done but okay.

You told me a few posts ago that I'm scummy because both my EoD votes were on Town?

[Andresvmb]

I'm thinking there's scum in DGB/GrandpaMo, I was even wondering if it's possible that's our team. Because two people who didn't even bother to check how many votes Titus is on, when it was probably very obvious she was around Y-1 range? My gut is going against both of those, though.

VOTE: Ythan?

Pedit: nice timing. We got any elaboration behind that theory?

And why are you voting Ythan here? Like this makes no sense.