Mini 170 - Time Travel Mafia, Game Over!

[mathcam]

Official Vote Count

:

Nanook (1, Tactix)
Axelrod (1, Crola)

Not Voting: Axelrod, DarkLight140, Dragon Slayer, Electra, Mastermind of Sin, NanookTheWolf

Cam

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't know if this was said yet, but I think Sapph is innocent, because if he wasn't wouldn't the mafia have killed someone voting for him so the lynch wouldn't happen?

[DarkLight140]

Firstly, that would make SapphireVerde look incredibly scummy. Secondly, SapphireVerde, unless the gender icon lies, is female. Thirdly, what if Electra is in the mafia? Then it would hardly be reasonable to move the lynch. The death of someone voting for Electra supports that conclusion, though it hardly seals the issue.

On a side note, I could have sword I voted for SapphireVerde before the day ended. The post is even there, right above the vote count...

SubtleTactix, coming out as vigilante might have been a poor move on your part, as it sort of marks you for death, and lets them undo any successful kills you make. That said, I don't appreciate the implication that you'd like to lynch Nanook today and vig me (or Axelrod, I guess) tonight. Or am I just being paranoid?

At the time of the deadline extension, it seemed (to me) like we had a lot yet to discuss, and more time would help. Heck, we're in the same situation right now- interesting events are still in the process of unfolding. I don't think that going by who wanted a deadline extension is either a fair or accurate way to find scum. That said, my thoughts on who the scum are, at the moment, are a bit underdeveloped and mostly consist of Mastermind of Sin being useless even after he got back from vacation. Which isn't a storng argument by any stretch.

[SubtleTactix]

SubtleTactix, coming out as vigilante might have been a poor move on your part, as it sort of marks you for death, and lets them undo any successful kills you make.

Well, I realize that -- but it seemed like a reasonable trade off for the town; *I* knew there was an SK and that the doctor could very well still be alive, but no one else did. Further, I've already acted once, and failed. So my value to the town (and hence, my threat to the mafia) has diminished (without divulging details, I've only finitely many uses of my abilities...).

That said, I don't appreciate the implication that you'd like to lynch Nanook today and vig me (or Axelrod, I guess) tonight. Or am I just being paranoid?

You are being paranoid. I used the extension as a qualifier -- but only Nanook was pressing SV's innocence off that list (as a back-up doc).
The combination made me suspect Nanook. I'm certainly not suggesting that the request was scummy by itself, and it's not my intent to vig someone for that alone tonight.

That said, my thoughts on who the scum are, at the moment, are a bit underdeveloped and mostly consist of Mastermind of Sin being useless even after he got back from vacation. Which isn't a storng argument by any stretch.

Oddly, I shared similar feelings for MoS, but felt there was more compelling (although still not iron-clad) evidence for Nanook.

I guess I just tried to cut corners. All my other thoughts for posting were of the form: "Hey guys, trust me, there's an SK and we probably still have a doc." The response would have been, "How do you know?" and I just would have had to claim anyway in order to explain myself. I could obviously be wrong, but my belief is that my actions are a net positive for the town, even if I die tonight, or die night 1, or whenever.

--Tactix

[Crola]

... Crola, have you ever been in a time travel game before?

No.

A. Mafia and SK targeted armlx night one.
B. There will be an attempted future kill, by a scum group.
C. A doc protected somebody night one
D. A roleblocker stopped the SK night one.

My responses
A: Not necesarily, one killing group may not have killed, (Also, you never said you didn't kill Night one, meaning you may have been the one to kill armlx)
B: A, duh.
C: Makes sense.
D: Why the SK, couldn't it be the Mafia? ALso, since you never specified that the Roleblocker blocked the vig (you) I assume your kill was successful. If you say the doc protected the person you tried to kill, I'll think it's BS, so you better ahve an amazing reason.

. . . Crola . . . based on her . . .

A little choppy, I know, but the point is, I'm a he, not a she.

Also, I think it's a really stupid idea that you role claimed Tactix, despite that you thought it was in the town's best interest, you've killed the vigilante in doing so, which in turn hurtsthe town greatly, so your noble act has actually hurt rather than helped.

Unvote Axel

Sorry, based on what's been said, I misinterpreted your post and voted you unfairly.

FOS Tactix

I'm seriously about to vote you unless you have a really logical explanation.

[Axelrod]

Okay, I am having serious connection issues for the past few days so I will post while I can.

Tactix I don't quite understand what you are saying. You are the vigilante, therefore you know that there is a SK in this game?

Answer this question then, which I can't tell from your posts. Have you killed anyone? You said you have acted already once but failed. What dies that mean? Have you tried to kill someone and had the effort fail?

Armix died night one and that was all.

Night 2 Fuldu died and someone traveled back to kill Mgm on night 1. I take it you are denying responsibility for Fuldu? If you didn't kill him and you are, in fact, the vigilante, then we very well may have a SK. Either that of the mafia got an additional kill.

Please answer those questions if you don't mind.

[NanookTheWolf]

More compelling evidence on me .. why? Because I tried to make a suggestion as to the SV bit. This game is confusing enough for me, and I guess I skipped the part where everyone has a time machine. So did SV apparently. I wouldn't waste your time on me though, as I am just a townie.

Also if you do lynch me, please do not revive me, as this game is most certainly not my cup of tea.

*note to self* Do not sign up for any games consisting of the words, space, sci-fi, or star wars again...

[SubtleTactix]

Well, here's my action history (this should answer your questions, Axelrod):

Night 1: Did not act.
Night 2: Did not timetravel. Targeted Mgm. This "failed" b/c he already died on Night 1. (Doc should note this -- only consider protecting Mgm on Night 1 if I die on Night 1).

So:

I have not killed anyone

. Because of that knowledge that I had (the vig had not killed anyone), I deduced that we must have two killing groups (which I presume to be mafia/SK). Then I asked myself, "If so, why was there only one death on night 1?" That led to my previous post.

Also, I think it's a really stupid idea that you role claimed Tactix, despite that you thought it was in the town's best interest, you've killed the vigilante in doing so, which in turn hurtsthe town greatly, so your noble act has actually hurt rather than helped.

Look, I felt I was in a unique position, where my actions plus the end results told me a lot about what was going on.

Since the value of my role had diminished, my most valuable asset was information.

Keep in mind, I am not a permanent vig. I have a small number of actions I can take, and I'v already used one. Combining that with a slow pace, I decided to claim to get my info out there for everyone, not just me.

A little choppy, I know, but the point is, I'm a he, not a she.

My apologies. I'll keep it straight from now on.

--Tactix

[Crola]

Keep in mind, I am not a permanent vig. I have a small number of actions I can take, and I'v already used one.

Woah, not a permanent Vig? So you're saying you have a limited amount of kills, or can you do a few different specific things? You've already claimed, but if you trully feel thet revealing your whole role will damage you or the town further, then please say so.

[SubtleTactix]

I mean only that I have a limited number of kills I can attempt. I have no other special abilities.

[DarkLight140]

It occurs to me that there's a deadline remarkably soon, and we've concluded very little today, our lynch is currently being targeted by one person, and in general we need more time and activity.

Request Deadline Extension.

[mathcam]

Agreed. 5 days from this post.

Cam

[mathcam]

Especially appropriate since

Uraj

is replacing Nanook.

cam

[Crola]

Nice, we got a huge deadline.

I mean only that I have a limited number of kills I can attempt. I have no other special abilities.

Wait, shouldn't a vig be able to kill every night? Or do you mean limited time fuel? One or the other or both, which one is it?
I'm not buying your vig story so far. You say you haven't killed yet, why? Most vigilantes would have killed by Day two.

[SubtleTactix]

Sorry, I thought I had made this clear: My role is that I am an N-shot vig, where N is a small finite number. How does it help the town to divulge the value of N, or how much time fuel I have left? (I have already tried to imply that both quantities are small -- more detail shouldn't be necessary) I have no other special abilities.

I'm not buying your vig story so far. You say you haven't killed yet, why? Most vigilantes would have killed by Day two.

Well, I already answered this. Did you read my previous posts!? I did take an action last night, but scum 'beat me to the punch,' by killing Mgm on Night 1. Here's exactly what I said:

Well, here's my action history (this should answer your questions, Axelrod):

Night 1: Did not act.
Night 2: Did not timetravel. Targeted Mgm. This "failed" b/c he already died on Night 1. (Doc should note this -- only consider protecting Mgm on Night 1 if I die on Night 1).

If that doesn't answer why I haven't killed yet, I don't know what does.

Unvote. FOS: Crola

. For all that the 'doubt' you have for my role-claim, you don't seem to be paying too much attention to the details of my posts. My role-claim is out there, and I think I've explained it well enough. Your pestering at this point just seems like mafia trying to figure out whether or not I'm still a liability to them.

--Tactix

[DarkLight140]

I would definitely agree that Crola's being a bit excessively inquistive. He's protown, he kills, he time-travels. We know he can't do either forever; asking more is pretty pointless. As for not buying his story, what's not to buy? Why in the world would a mafia/SK come out as a vig- obviously asking to be shot Night One by a real vig or mafia/SK in doing so- with no pressure at all, to spread information that's useful but not critical to the town? I don't see how it would make sense; if you do, pray enlighten me.

[Crola]

I would definitely agree that Crola's being a bit excessively inquistive. He's protown, he kills, he time-travels. We know he can't do either forever; asking more is pretty pointless. As for not buying his story, what's not to buy? Why in the world would a mafia/SK come out as a vig- obviously asking to be shot Night One by a real vig or mafia/SK in doing so- with no pressure at all, to spread information that's useful but not critical to the town? I don't see how it would make sense; if you do, pray enlighten me.

Okay, I may not be able to counter that completely, but I will say that why would a Vig, and I'm using your words here "spread information that's useful but not critical to the town," if it sacrifices his life. We weren't even suspicious of Tactix at first, then he role claims, and here's the only logic I can put behind it:
1)It would prevent his lynch, which gives us chance to kill either non-townie or a townie
2) He dies in the process.
So, all we now know, is that if he dies, and he is indeed non-townie, we may or may not think he was telling the truth. That's about it. If he is telling the truth, he hurt the town more then helped, at least at this stage in the game. It could be an attepmt to get revive later

[Axelrod]

People who seem straight:

Crola (townie)
DarkLight140 (unknown)

People who are lurking:

Electra (time-traveller?)
Mastermind of Sin (time-traveller?)
Nannok/Uraj (claimed basic townie)
Dragon Slayer (unknown)

People I don't know about:

SubtleTaxtics (claimed Vigilante)

Dead People:

Armix (townie)
Mgm (unknown)
SapphireVerde (claimed back-up Doc w/o time machine)
Fuldu (townie)

From this, I would probably go with one of the lurkers. This game is hard enough to figure out without everyone participating. I do not think we have gotten a scum yet.

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

A mafia would be a time-traveller. Plus, he has been kind of useless as was mentioned above.

[DarkLight140]

Well... I could go with that, I guess. The information SubtleTactix gave us tells us something, but not enough to finger anyone. And as for Mastermind of Sin, his last two posts have been mostly useless, except trying to say SapphireVerde was innocent due to the night results, and before that his only post with anything to say was saying quite lengthily how the confusion about the time fuel information meant nothing, when, well, it somewhat clearly did-probably covering for something, I'd say. As long as we've got no better leads...

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

.

Shouldn't Uraj have posted by now?

[Uraj45]

Yes, I should have. . .
My impressions thus far: I agree with the MoS bandwagon. His argument that Sapph is innocent is a weak one, fighting some pretty incriminating posts with a very sketchy argument.

Vote Masterimond of Sin

But at the same time, last night's results are rather baffling. I can't imagine why a mafia with a limited amount of time feul would waste it like that. Don't want to read too much into that but I do have some speculations nonetheless:
1. Scum knew something about MGM that we don't.
2. A scum/scum group has an unlimited amount of feul.
3. Scum was trying to play WIFOM with Electra.
4. This one is a bit more interesting. SubtleTactix attempted to kill MGM. . .and MGM did die, just on a different night. It's possible that maybe we don't have an sk, but there is a role out there that forces you to make your choice on a different night than you chose.
5. Someone made a choice like this "Travel to night two to travel to night one to kill MGM". . .just kidding.

[mathcam]

Current Official Vote Count:

MoS (3, Axelrod, Darklight, Uraj)

Not Voting: Crola, Dragon Slayer, Electra, Mastermind of Sin, Tactix

Cam

[mathcam]

Prodding MoS, Electra, and Dragon Slayer. About 50 hours until deadline.

Cam

[Mastermind of Sin]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for not being here as often as I should be. I keep forgetting that this game exists. Secondly, I want to know why Axelrod thinks I am a time traveller. I see no indication that should lead you to believe that. As for Sapphire, I was corrected on my position about that. Uraj, what I said was just speculation about strategies the mafia might take. At the time, it seemed to me that the mafia would revive their own. I forgot that mafia reviving him would just make him more suspicious. With that in mind, if he IS innocent, I'm surprised the mafia didn't revive him to get him lynched again. As for the reason I said the confusion over it meant nothing, well I'll answer that once Axelrod justifies himself. As for his list of people, for it to be accurate, I'm guessing that every unknown person would have to be a time-traveller. Otherwise, it seems we have way too few time-travellers for a time-travel game. So that means the from my point of view, both DarkLight140 and Axelrod have a high probability of scum trying to get me lynched. So, I will

vote: DarkLight140

, since his most recent post seems designed to mislead. He claims my last to posts have been useless except for the only point I tried to make in them, and then claims I only have one other post that said anything. What he doesn't mention is that since I keep forgetting about this game, I only had 5 posts up to that point, meaning that I have an opening post, 3 posts that contribute, and 1 useless post.

[Dragon Slayer]

I guess I'm not helping then by saying that i'm a basic townie, with no time travel abilities at all (since most people have at least said if they can travel or not I might as well put this out there, if we go with the idea of reviving only townies then it may keep a night kill off me all together as it would be a waste for them).

Secondly, I think MoS can potentially be scum (mafia not sk i think). I think out SK is Tactix trying to pull a fast one on us. It seems too coincidental. First, the fact that vig is a common enough claim for SK cause they can claim to have accidently killed a townie that they thought was mafia, when they're actually the SK. Also, in his reasons for only one kill night one, he included in his last reason (4) that a role blocker stopped the SK. Perhaps here he is trying to talk about the SK to take the idea off him being the SK (not sure how confusing that sounds, hopefully you get hte idea). Also, he claims to have attempted to kill mgm last night but failed because he was killed night one. Perhaps he actually killed him night one and is lying now? WHy did you go for mgm anyway? And generally vig's don't get many kills, I usually only give mine one. It just doesn't feel right. My guy today tells me to go with tactix, though as I stated, Mgm has been suspicious. I need to do more reading on him. THen I'll vote between the two.

-DS

[Crola]

I guess I'm not helping then by saying that i'm a basic townie, with no time travel abilities at all (since most people have at least said if they can travel or not I might as well put this out there, if we go with the idea of reviving only townies then it may keep a night kill off me all together as it would be a waste for them).

Secondly, I think MoS can potentially be scum (mafia not sk i think). I think out SK is Tactix trying to pull a fast one on us. It seems too coincidental. First, the fact that vig is a common enough claim for SK cause they can claim to have accidently killed a townie that they thought was mafia, when they're actually the SK. Also, in his reasons for only one kill night one, he included in his last reason (4) that a role blocker stopped the SK. Perhaps here he is trying to talk about the SK to take the idea off him being the SK (not sure how confusing that sounds, hopefully you get hte idea). Also, he claims to have attempted to kill mgm last night but failed because he was killed night one. Perhaps he actually killed him night one and is lying now? WHy did you go for mgm anyway? And generally vig's don't get many kills, I usually only give mine one. It just doesn't feel right. My guy today tells me to go with tactix, though as I stated, Mgm has been suspicious. I need to do more reading on him. THen I'll vote between the two.

-DS

I agree with this, hence my vote on Tactix. Hes probably SK, saying he's Vig, that way he gets revived if he dies, since he'll come up as a non-townie. Also, either way he'd have a kill a night to justify both claims. I say down with Tactix!