Mafiascum.net

VOTE: quilford
obvtown.

SK wrote:You're only allowed to capsrage if you're right.
*Entering 'ignore Quilford until he actually does something' mode*
Completed.

I could write a five-paragraph essay on why this post has scum intentions behind it. "you're only allowed to capsrage if you're right" is dismissing a towntell (in this case, his rage is a towntell because the justification for it makes sense), the second line is not only INCREDIBLY CONTRIVED but also essentially an easy way to just dismiss what quilford does and keep his (SK's) scumread on quilford without having to do anything to change. Town has no reason to tunnel on page four. Seriously. Quil is obvtown anyway.

jason wrote:Begging for the role just so you can kill someone? this is my first time in a game like this, but to me it seems to work a lot like Kingmaker only we all vote instead of one person picking the king.

Oh really now... frankly I think it's a very town-motivated action. If I have a strong scumread (say, codfish) and I think he lied to the town (say, like quilford did) then how am I going to kill this person that I think is scum? Why, by being elected executioner! Selfvoting up until this point (since at this point I'm stating this outright) should be taken as a minor towntell. It would feel awkward to scum moreso than to town, i feel.

Jason is fairly likely scum. Oh my god all of page five makes me want sleepykrew dead so badly.
127 makes jason possibly a bit townier. That's kind of a ridiculous thing to report someone for, frankly... mafia is a game of opinions. there are people much, much worse than quilford in terms of raging.

jason wrote:I do agree, Vezo needs to be more open about who we elect, but I don't see it as a contridiction in full terms, nor do I see it as scummy. I agree, MOI is a great scum hunter and if that is why Vezo voted him (he mentioned about it earlier) then it is a valid point, and very good town posting from Vezo picking someone he feels is strong and finding scum.

This feels like town (acknowledging that the contradiction exists to an extent, which it does, but also admitting that it isn't indicative of scum, which I agree that it isn't)

No strong vibes from MoI's post. I admittedly only skimmed it because I doubt magna is going to be easy to read.

MoI wrote:Wait, why then did you say you agreed that Town should choose the Night and Day kills?

Isn’t that a blatant contradiction?

Shouldn’t I be screaming that you are obv-scum for contradicting yourself?

This made me chuckle though.

SK wrote:I can't tell yet. My gut says so, but I think it's just butthurt that you're attacking me.

More scumposting. If SK is scum and magna is town: he wants to attack magna but is afraid to. If they're both scum: he's being wishy-washy on a partner to possibly set up a bus but keep options open. If SK is town: hm, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense... it's saying both yes and no. Your gut says so but you also think that he isn't... well which is it? If you were executioner right now and you had to choose between executing magna and someone 100% null, who would you execute? And why do you then vote magna after saying your gut thinks he's scum? What people do you have as townreads and why?

vezokpiraka wrote:Chaosomega seems incredibly off and pretty scummy. Last game 2 scums lurked their way to victory and never got caught in discussion or something like that.

Are you out of your mind? We've been playing less than 24 hours, and you're going to talk about me "lurking to victory" as scum, along with never getting caught in discussion after agreeing to do a catch-up post of what happened? I have no argument for this other than you have no idea what you're talking about.

Anyway, looking back over the thread.

Codfish:
Scummy. Very jumpy with suspicions, aimed at SleepyKrew initially, but has retracted to essentially agreeing with everything he says (especially post #74, while post #38 shows buddying up to SleepyKrew, and in #44, he tries to defend this point). Speaking of post #44,

Codfish wrote:My posts are in no way scummy, Quil

Does anyone else find this line weird? Town shouldn't be concerned about their posts looking scummy, but rather catching scum. Scum, on the other hand, care very much about their posts looking like something town should say.

Codfish wrote:@Quil, your false premise is that I flipped _with_ SK and therefore I'm budding him. Your entire argument is based on this.

That is not true at all, since you posted that right after Quilford's posting of 3 contradictions you made this game.

vezokpiraka:

vezokpiraka wrote:And until I see more from the other people I'm not voting anyone else except MoI or me.

vezokpiraka wrote:I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

vezokpiraka wrote:I said that I will vote me and MoI for executioner and nobody else unless I see something really townie coming from someone.

This, combined with you talking about last game and other non-game things make up over half of your posts. Now that I'm on the subject, let's go back to your brilliant post about me. You attack me for saying nothing of other players in this game, but I'm reading you in iso and it's hard seeing where you yourself have done this. I found this:

vezokpiraka wrote:Right now Cod fish is leaning scum and jason is neutral.

Great. Otherwise, what have you said about other players? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...or masturbate in the daytime.

vezokpiraka wrote:Why am I not open to discussion?

vezokpiraka wrote:Where the fuck did I say I am open minded?

Well, at least you're fairly consistent about not making sense.

I'll go over Quilford and SleepyKrew in my next post.

Seven pages a day? I'll try not to make this wall too long.

SleepyKrew wrote:1. He's completely unopen to discussion. Anti-town.

I don't see how he was unopen for discussion. I assume you're talking about his first post were he said that he wouldn't support anyone except Magna and himself for executioner. That's not being unopen for discussion, it's being unopen over who should be the executioner. Although that is also anti-town, he didn't try to discourage discussion at all.

vezokpiraka wrote:Right now I doubt he will do that.

Why would you doubt that when he didn't even post yet?

SleepyKrew wrote:Is vezok being anti-town? Yes.
Is electing vezok anti-town? Yes.
Why don't you give us your opinions instead of just saying 'lollookatSKrew'?

You're judging him being anti-town based on one post. I also don't see how Codfish didn't give his opinions.

Codfish wrote:By adjoining text I mean post 27. While you've already said it in a roundabout way, post 27 is a straight out contradiction of the MoI vote which I don't like, so I'm getting stronger scummy vibes/VI vibes from vezok. As of which between scum/idiot, IMO it's too early to tell.

I don't think it was really that much of a contradiction. He posted the same thing in post 21, I think he was just elaborating on his statement that he wouldn't choose anyone else for executioner because it was the beginning of the game when he posted that and I also don't think he was completely serious anyway.

Quilford wrote:Kill this guy when we elect you, vezok.

Why do you assume that we will elect vezok?

Codfish wrote:2. You're clearly defending a person with scum reads from SK and I.

How is this scummy at all? In fact, this is pro-town. Townies should who say who they think is town and who they think of scum regardless of what the majority think while scum usually conform their opinions to that of the majority in order to look more town.

Quilford wrote:Scumminess is not innate to contradictions.

Why not? I see no pro-town reasons for contradiction but I do see several scummy reasons.

Quilford wrote:Codfish. Explain how I am being pro-vezok (outside of my vote for him).

Why outside of your vote for him? That's the most pro-vezok action there is.

Vezok wrote:Stop bitching about stupid stuff and wait for the others to come.

This is one of the most pro-town posts so far.

Quilford wrote:PEdit: HE IS NOT ACTING SCUMMY. YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON HIM APART FROM 'OH LOL HE MADE A CONTRADICTION' WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY THE CONTRADICTION WAS A SCUMMY ONE. AT WORST HE IS ACTING LIKE VEZOK, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OF HIS META.

This is being pro-vezok. That is what he was trying to explain but you ignored his actual point.

Quilford wrote:I'm vezok's buddy for disagreeing with yours?

I think you might be vezok's buddy for calling him town for no reason and denying that you are pro-vezok.

Captain Corporal wrote:I don't like the fact that your posts contradict each other, and your refusal to consider anyone else up for executioner don't sit well with me.

These two points contradict each other. He supposedly contradicted himself for no longer refusing to vote anyone else for executioner. So either he contradicted himself and he isn't refusing or he didn't contradict himself and he is refusing.

SleepyKrew wrote:So vezok's contradiction is fine but Cod is scum?

Although I like Quilford's case. This is a very good point.

Captain Corporal wrote:him saying that he only wants him to be executioner. That doesn't sound very open-minded to me.

He didn't say that he only wants to be executioner. He said that he wants only himself or Magna to be executioner.

Captain Corporal wrote:my null read is Quil (leaning town now)

Why are you leaning town?

SleepyKrew wrote:So, how come you two aren't voting (Cod and CC)?

Aren't you not voting?

Quilford wrote:I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES THAT I THOUGHT VEZOK'S CONTRADICTION WAS NOT AS SCUMMY AS YOU MADE IT OUT TO BE. I THEN POINTED OUT THREE CONTRADICTIONS THAT CODFISH MADE. YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT ALL CONTRADICTIONS ARE THE SAME TO YOU

But you said this-

Quilford wrote:Scumminess is not innate to contradictions.

That implies all contradictions not just the ones that vezok made.

Quilford wrote:I DON'T KNOW WHETHER VEZOK IS TOWN OR NOT

Then why are you voting for him and why are you calling him town?

Quilford wrote:Can we selfvote? If no, Vezok is the only person out of everyone who's posted so far where I think my vote will do best. Hence why it's there

But you voted him in your first post. This also doesn't explain why you called him town for no reason. And you also don't have to vote, If you don't think he's town don't vote for him.

JasonT1981 wrote:Quilford seems to be wanting it just to kill one person, that is not town. Begging for the role just so you can kill someone? this is my first time in a game like this, but to me it seems to work a lot like Kingmaker only we all vote instead of one person picking the king.
However the executioner/king should always be listening to the town and making decissions based on that. Quilford is seemingly not wanting to do that.

This is really good reasoning. Although Quilford is not the executioner.

Quilford wrote:Deal with it. If you don't like it you can replace out.

You are the person breaking rule #18.

Quilford wrote:I did not call vezok town.

That was a very ambiguous post.

Quilford wrote:Because nobody had raised it as a problem UNTIL JUST THEN

Everybody was calling you pro-vezok and said that you thought he was town many times before this.

Quilford wrote:I'll stop with the insults but it's the only way to drill it through your thick skull that you might be wrong.

You should also consider that you might be wrong.

Magna wrote:It first blush Sleepy’s post 5 where he demands a vote-count after voting the Mod looks like lazy stupid Town who didn’t read the mechanics of the game or some sort of half assed reaction test.

I disagree. To me it just seems like a joke.

Magna- What do you think of Quilford? you don't really mention him in your post but later, you call him town.

ChaosOmega wrote:vote: Quilford

Any reason you haven't voted yet, Codfish?

You do realize that this isn't a normal mafia game, right? Also, do you have thoughts on anything else in the game.

Implosion wrote:The nice thing about this game is that we can give townreads openly without fear of them being nightkilled since an obvtown player being nightkilled will just lead to a mass night-vote claim.

You should give town reads regardless.

Implosion wrote:Quilford is town by the way

Why?

Implosion wrote:I could write a five-paragraph essay on why this post has scum intentions behind it. "you're only allowed to capsrage if you're right" is dismissing a towntell (in this case, his rage is a towntell because the justification for it makes sense), the second line is not only INCREDIBLY CONTRIVED but also essentially an easy way to just dismiss what quilford does and keep his (SK's) scumread on quilford without having to do anything to change. Town has no reason to tunnel on page four. Seriously. Quil is obvtown anyway.

Raging whether justified or not is anti-town. It's not scummy but it's certainly not a town tell.

ChaosOmega wrote:Great. Otherwise, what have you said about other players?

[/quote]

What have you said about the other players besides codfish and vezok? You also haven't given any reason for your vote for Quilford.

Sorry, if some of my earlier points are somewhat outdated but I made this post while I was reading and I don't have enough time to go back and edit and that this post is really long.


In case you don't want to read, here are my reads-

Most Likely Town-

Jason
Magna

Leaning Town-

Vezok

Neutral-
SleepyKrew
Everyone else

Leaning Scum-

ChaosOmega
Codfish
Quilford
Captain Corporal

I know that I didn't say much about jason or Magna but I think their posts are very town. Vezok's play doesn't seem very good but he has had some very good pro-town posts. SleepyKrew I'm getting both town and scum reads from. ChaosOmega and Captain Corporal need to post more. Quilford makes a very good case against Codfish it's based on too little. Quilford seems really scummy but the more I think about it, the more my gut tells me that it is just his play because although he is Anti-town, he has made some good points such as his case against Codfish.

ChaosOmega wrote:Does anyone else find this line weird? Town shouldn't be concerned about their posts looking scummy, but rather catching scum. Scum, on the other hand, care very much about their posts looking like something town should say.

It read as a town line to me. It's the kind of thing that I feel I'd be more inclined to say as town than as scum. It feels awkward to say things like that as scum.

Zang wrote:You should give town reads regardless.

In a normal game, a lot of people (myself included, I'd say) say that it's best not to be too open with townreads because it essentially hands the scum a list of who to nightkill on a platter. In this case because the executioner is elected there's no issue with this.

Zang wrote:Why?

I think this was from page two. His assertiveness and conviction look like those of a town member.

Zang wrote:Raging whether justified or not is anti-town. It's not scummy but it's certainly not a town tell.

Consider the town reasoning behind raging and the scum reasoning behind raging. Town will do it because they are genuinely irritated. Scum will do it because they want to look like town. Therefore, when scum do it, it will look contrived. Quilford's rage didn't look contrived because it had a reason and just didn't look contrived; it looked genuine, therefore it's a towntell.

MagnaofIllusion (1)-SleepyKrew
Quilford (3)-Quilford, ChaosOmega, implosion
vezokpiraka (2)-MagnaofIllusion, vezokpiraka

Haven't Voted (7)-
jasonT1981
Zang
Codfish
fatlikepig
kondi2424
havingfitz
Captain Corporal

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to elect an executioner!

AND KONDI STILL HASN'T CONFIRMED...WILL REPLACE IF HE DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING BY TOMORROW NIGHT.

Zang wrote:You do realize that this isn't a normal mafia game, right? Also, do you have thoughts on anything else in the game.

I'm glad you're here to state the obvious in case I forget. As for the second part of your statement, I'll assume your post was a read-and-respond as you go, as it doesn't make much sense with you quoting another post of mine that has more information.

Zang wrote:What have you said about the other players besides codfish and vezok? You also haven't given any reason for your vote for Quilford.

Nothing, yet. My point was saying that vezokpiraka accusing me of that was weird considering what he has put forward so far this game. As for why I voted for Quilford, I like the cut of his jib.

implosion wrote:It read as a town line to me. It's the kind of thing that I feel I'd be more inclined to say as town than as scum. It feels awkward to say things like that as scum.

Fair enough. I agree that it would be awkward to say as scum. I guess it's because I can't imagine saying that regardless of role.


Quilford:
I don't really have much to say about Quilford. I agree with his case on Codfish, he's made good posts on it. The only thing that jumped out at me from his posts was him saying "scumminess is not innate to contradictions." A contradiction implies a lie, and lying is by-and-large anti-town. But this is in regards to vezokpiraka, and he explains it pretty well a few posts later:

Quilford wrote:So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

SleepyKrew:
Do you think vezokpiraka is a VI, scummy, or both?

jasonT1981 wrote:Anyone who has ever played in any of my modded games will understand why.

Considering I haven't, perhaps you could enlighten me?

jasonT1981 wrote:I want to say that my main issue with Quif is his attitude, it is horrible.

I was going to write something witty and acerbic but you can't argue with people who put others in their scum lists for their .

jasonT1981 wrote:your wanting to kill is based on rage posting as I see it.

This makes no sense. I want to kill because I am rage posting? Are you suggesting that because I ragepost the points within are any less valid? Did you my posts or did you just see the CAPS and swearing and everything just turned red and the report button beckoned with its shiny exclamation mark AND OH GOD OH GOD THE MONITOR WAS SPEAKING TO YOU IN A LOW, PERSUASIVE VOICE

jasonT1981 wrote:

Quilford wrote:How have I not wanted to listen to the town.

I did not say that, blatent misrep.

jasonT1981 wrote:However

the executioner/king should always be listening to the town

and making decissions based on that.

Quilford is seemingly not wanting to do that.

Do you know where you can take your 'blatant misrep'?

jasonT1981 wrote:Quilford, if you don't know if Vezo is town, then why are you voting him for executioner?

I didn't. But you know it wasn't looking likely that he'd be elected any time soon, and he was the towniest at the time.

jasonT1981 wrote:Don't like how Cod comes in attacking SK. SK has made a valid point towards Quiford.

It was a valid point.

jasonT1981 wrote:

Quilford wrote:I don't know he's town. Do you know that who you want to vote is town?

then why vote him? why not hold off until you can get a read?

What is the RVS?

jasonT1981 wrote:Could you show me Cod blatently lying please?

Could you read my posts please?

I can't be bothered to explain myself to Zang and repeat myself for the nth time, it's pretty clear he just skimmed everything

Stop with the rage/caps lock fever please, ladies. It's not like TYPING YOUR CASE IN ALL CAPS AND LITTERING IT WITH FUCKING EXPLETIVES IS MAKING THINGS ANY FUCKING CLEARER.

So, I've read over the thread a couple of times now. While I find Vezok's semi-contradictory "I support only MoI and myself" post somewhat concerning, I think we now have bigger leads than that. The post certainly casts doubt on his alignment, sure, but I feel like the reasoning behind it is ambiguous enough for me to put aside for now. Is he unwilling to vote for anyone else but still open to discussion about individuals? Is he just waiting for more posts before looking elsewhere for someone to elect? etc.

I realise that I'm going to sound like I'm just repeating whole chunks of the thread here, but I just want to make sure that everyone knows where my suspicions come from.



That being said,

ATM there is me and quill on one side and codfish and SK on the other.

You aren't right either.

...you later defend this by saying....

I don't understand. Quil has defended me. When he defends me he's right but his attacks on cod fish and jason are bad and wrong.

Fair enough, but...

Right now Cod fish is leaning scum and jason is neutral.

So attacking someone you find suspicious is wrong? That doesn't quite add up for me.

As for Quil, while I believe that his recent bout of capsrage certainly reads town, I'm unsure as to whether or not his convictions will affect his decision making if he is elected executioner and town finds someone else to execute for the day. For that reason, I will withhold my vote, although I feel that he is town-leaning at the moment.

EBWOP: Holy moly, formatting gone wrong there. At least it's still somewhat readable... I guess.

Hey implosion, I'm not allowed to attack Quil for an obvjoke but you're allowed to attack me for it? Noted. Also, you can clearly see that I did ignore Quil. And how is CAPSRAGE a towntell? YOURE AN IDIOT I HATE YOU YOU MUST BE SCUM IM TOWN

More crap from implosion, cool. I said I have a gut read that I'm second-guessing, and you're using that to hold me accountable? Cool. I think jason is town.

Zang, why do you shine my words in a bad light and then agree with them? And you're wrong, I voting. MoI.

Anything I missed?

SK, I'm fairly sure MoI said that he didn't want to be elected executioner.

He said he didn't want to be elected if he had to kill who the town agreed on. I'm fine with letting him kill whoever.

SleepyKrew wrote:I'm fine with letting him kill whoever.

But that would be , wouldn't it now?

@Jason: If I get elected as executioner I would kill who the town tells me to and no one else.

Actually, vezok, I'd like you to answer the question posed in fatlikepig's post:

1) Why are my cases on SK and Codfish wrong (you stated they were)?
2) If they are wrong, why did you say SK was null and Codfish was leaning scum?

quil's joke: "I think those 3D glasses have done something to your brain, SK."

SK's 'joke': "What's the matter vezok? Don't like the direction this argument is turning?"

The difference: quil's joke is criticizing someone that he thinks is town (or at least isn't on his scum list) for what he thinks are wrong opinions. There's a town agenda behind that: town members need other town members to view themselves as town. SK's 'joke' is just an attempt to make vezok look bad. I wouldn't even call it a joke (clearly) because it really isn't a joke. quil was joking about SK's avatar because he didn't like how SK was acting. SK wasn't even joking, he was just asking vezok a rhetorical question. I don't see how that's a joke, and I don't see the reason behind saying it. So SK: When you said the line in 54 which I quoted, what was your intention/motivation?

SK wrote:Also, you can clearly see that I did not ignore Quil.

Way to ignore the crux of the argument. My point was that your post was not town motivated in that town has no reason to start tunneling so early, and to explicitly say that they are not going to change their mind no matter what. I may have phrased it somewhat badly, but in essence you're trying to let yourself keep a scumread on quil no matter what he does.

I explained why, in this specific circumstance, his rage is a towntell. See post 153, final paragraph.

As for a "gut read that you're second guessing" that would be well and fine if you said somewhere that you had a gut read then later on that you were second guessing it, but That just indicates that you don't want to take a strong stance. Wishy-washiness is a scumtell in cases like this.

So, Sleepykrew. Answer my question at the end of 150, or better yet: what's your read on magna? What's your read on me?

BZZT, wrong. The joke I was talking about was in reference to CAPSRAGE.
So who am I tunneling? Vezok? Quil? MoI? I really can't tell who I'm tunneling on.
Just for future reference, I don't put much faith in towntells, because they can be easily faked. And you're using tone too, another favorite of mine.
I already answered the end of 150 (except MoI or a null, in which case I'd kill a null). Magna is null, you are scum.

Quilford wrote:Actually, vezok, I'd like you to answer the question posed in fatlikepig's post:

1) Why are my cases on SK and Codfish wrong (you stated they were)?
2) If they are wrong, why did you say SK was null and Codfish was leaning scum?

I see SK as misguided town that could be scum( neutral). That's why I don't agree with your case.

As for codfish he is pretty scummy and I agree with you.

As for the wrong comment it was when you started capsraging and doing stuff I didn't agree with.

I'm misguided town that could be scum and is neutral :S
Nice consistency.

vezokpiraka wrote:

Quilford wrote:Actually, vezok, I'd like you to answer the question posed in fatlikepig's post:

1) Why are my cases on SK and Codfish wrong (you stated they were)?
2) If they are wrong, why did you say SK was null and Codfish was leaning scum?

I see SK as misguided town that could be scum( neutral). That's why I don't agree with your case.

As for codfish he is pretty scummy and I agree with you.

As for the wrong comment it was when you started capsraging and doing stuff I didn't agree with.

Ignoring the capsraging, which should have no effect on the validity of my arguments anyway, what else did I do that you didn't agree with.

SleepyKrew wrote:I'm misguided town that could be scum and is neutral :S
Nice consistency.

SK wrote:I can't tell yet. My gut says so, but I think it's just butthurt that you're attacking me.

Hypocrisy.

SK wrote:*Entering 'ignore Quilford until he actually does something' mode*

This essentially implies that you are going to attack quilford no matter what he's going to do E.G. tunnel him.

SK wrote:Just for future reference, I don't put much faith in towntells, because they can be easily faked. And you're using tone too, another favorite of mine.

I don't put much faith in anything, seeing as townies screw up sometimes. I put more faith in towntells because I find certain things often just feel like they come from town, and I can often justify this as well. Townies can scumtell.

The "moi or a null" was the thing I was asking you to respond to.

Ah, the joke in post 81. Again, not all jokes are the same. Just because two things are both jokes, it doesn't mean that they're both exactly the same, and I never criticized it for being a joke, I criticized it for dismissing something as meaningless that can be assigned meaning.

Also: why am I scum, exactly?

Pardon the slow start...v/LA and RL have gotten in the way. Read though 4 or 5 pages yesterday and got the sense Quil was town. However, I was/am hesitant to vote for him to be the executioner because he seemed to be a bit unstable.

MOI not an option for my vote because he has no confidence in anyone's skill but his own (big surprise there ) and would do whatever he felt was best (for him).

Will comment more after my re-read/catchup.