Newbie 1,276 (Game over!)

[JohnnyFarrar]

Both Wiibox and Paschendale are

slightly scummy (but it is very slight)

because they avoided voting for the competing wagons after I said that the competing wagons would help us find scum. Additionally MissMaggot's reactions are every transparent, so I give her major townpoints. CheeryDog asked a very relevant question which gives minor townpoints.

The reason it

seems scum motivated

is because your reason for not voting MissMaggot was to avoid the attention that comes from OMGUS. Scum want to avoid attention more than town.

Your scumreads just happen to match the two people with random wagons on them?

Seems a little bit scummy. But not much yet.

Why choose Nekoko over Wiibox?

In bold are things in the posts you yourself quoted that distract from any read you've given. You keep saying 'slightly scummy' or something 'seems scummy'. Language like that makes it easy to go back on a read later on, and I don't like it. Town shouldn't be afraid to commit to a read, because if that read changes they can give legitimate reasons why.

[Paschendale]

@Pasche, ewo's reasons make might make sense from a newbie perspective even if I don't agree with them. If you read my thoughts about the thread you would see that his most recent case against or wonderful IC is something I particularly disagree with. Right now, though, I'd rather get a wagon going on nhammen for lack of content rather than ewo for methods I disagree with.

I don't really see a lack of content. Sure, he could be more forthcoming, but Nhammen hasn't shied away from giving an opinion. Ewo's methods, meanwhile, are just plain bad.

Vote: Ewo

[Paschendale]

In bold are things in the posts you yourself quoted that distract from any read you've given. You keep saying 'slightly scummy' or something 'seems scummy'. Language like that makes it easy to go back on a read later on, and I don't like it. Town shouldn't be afraid to commit to a read, because if that read changes they can give legitimate reasons why.

But by the same token, a person shouldn't put more weight into a read than they genuinely have. It's not anti-town to be unsure. It is anti-town to push harder for a position you're not sure of, because you might be wrong.

[nhammen]

I do not like some of 132 for a few reasons. First off, Johnny votes me with a case that is not true, even after agreeing with my case on ewo. Now this could be my response to being attacked, so I will try to suppress that feeling for now. The other problem I have is this:

Scum:

ewo, nhammen

ewo and nhammen are not partners, but one of them is probably scum. I'm not confident pinning down the partner just yet.

If he is scum and we are both town, this is a great way to get a mislynch if the first lynch flips town. However, I can't definitively state that this is scummy, because the first thought that popped into my head after this is that to the rest of the town, at most one of the 3 of me, ewo, and Johnny is scum... So if I had a similar thought, I can't really fault him for having that thought either.

I just looked in your threads (on this site) and found that you were in newbie 1265, though I notice you were replaced out, it does show how you started another game as town.

It looks to me like his play in that game (where he is town) closely matched his play here. Other than the lurking from Tuesday to Saturday anyways.

But he does say he plays the same way as both. <_<

I'll probably re-examine my vote later when I have more time.

Oh yes, I agree that it cannot be used as a town-tell. He could be actively playing to his town meta for instance.

The more confirmed townies the better. I'm not sure how you can be semi-confirmed. Plus I'm not sure what you expected to get out of this question.

Scum tend to get nervous when there is a consensus among the town that a particular player is town. I have seen scum try to show why something that people agree is a town-tell should not be viewed as a town-tell. It isn't a strong scumtell (paranoid townies do the same thing) but it is something I wanted to see your reaction on.

In bold are things in the posts you yourself quoted that distract from any read you've given. You keep saying 'slightly scummy' or something 'seems scummy'. Language like that makes it easy to go back on a read later on, and I don't like it. Town shouldn't be afraid to commit to a read, because if that read changes they can give legitimate reasons why.

Ah. I see. Well that only removes wiibox from the list of reads I gave above. I had still given a read on 5 out of the 9 players in the game. That's hardly nobody. Also, you are not the first person to comment on the fact that I say things like "seems" or other such things a lot. I tend not to say things like "x is scummy" because I don't actually know if the player that did x is scum, so I usually say "x seems scummy" instead.

[Cheery Dog]

Well, I honestly feel like I know nothing about this game. Not starting from the start really throws me off.

You've replaced in before, shouldn't you have known this already and therefore not have replaced in?

and you've replaced into a completely clean slot this game, this pretty much means you have started from the start, and the rest of us just did a huge surge at the start of the game before you had a chance to log in.

[MissMaggot]

Johnny, your proposing of a policy lynch bothers me. A policy lynch tells us practically nothing about the interactions of players and what they mean. It only gives the town less information and speeds up to the night phase for the mafia.

I suppose I should have been more direct about this. Let me restate my concern. Johnny, why are you okay with a policy lynch?

[JohnnyFarrar]

UNVOTE:

Ok. I'll keep that in mind from this point forward. I'm still working on differentiating between "I disagree with you" and "You're scummy", and that particular way of speaking is a tad too cautious for my taste. A real easy way to get yourself off my suspect list would be linking me to a few recent town games of yours.

As for the first part of 153, I'm not sure what you're trying to say so my response is nothing.

VOTE: ewo
for reasons previously stated by myself and nhammen. This is L-2 if I'm not mistaken.

p-edit: Because he isn't being helpful for all his "experience" and has now taken to lurking. If he is scum I'd prefer we'd get rid of him now, and if he's town I'd rather not have him alive if we get into a more complicated situation like mylo or lylo.

[ewo2]

has now taken to lurking.

I've had some time to read over the games I'm in but not comment extensively because I had to evacuate for Hurricane Issac. I'll have more time in a couple days.

[nhammen]

Ok. I'll keep that in mind from this point forward. I'm still working on differentiating between "I disagree with you" and "You're scummy", and that particular way of speaking is a tad too cautious for my taste. A real easy way to get yourself off my suspect list would be linking me to a few recent town games of yours.

I will say that when I said "slightly scummy" it was a very weak read. But at that point in the game, that isn't a surprising thing. Translations: slightly or mild or leaning=weak, seems=moderate, is=strong. Unless I say something in the same post that says I'm not sure. You know, I'm trying to help, but I'm not sure that really worked. So here are my only two recent town games (all other games are a year old or more by now):
Mini 1341
Newbie 1252

As for the first part of 153, I'm not sure what you're trying to say so my response is nothing.

Essentially, I was saying that I could easily see scum going after two town players, saying one of them is scum. That says that your actions are consistent with scumplay, but doesn't say they are inconsistent with townplay. So at this point it is a nullread. Maybe I'm just getting too paranoid.

Because he isn't being helpful for all his "experience" and has now taken to lurking.

I disagree on both counts.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Sorry, my p-edit was referring to MM's question regarding Rob, in case that wasn't clear.

[nhammen]

That should have been clear, but I wasn't sure about what MissMaggot was talking about in the first place. There had been too many posts back and forth since then, I guess. Now everything makes sense, and I shouldn't have replied to something when I did not fully understand the topic of conversation. Now, a topic appropriate reply: I do not like policy lynches in general. It is bad play for the reasons that Maggot described.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

ewo2 (3): nhammen, Paschendale, JohnnyFarrar
nhammen (1): ewo2
Venrob (2): Cheery Dog, Wiibox3
Not voting (4): jambecca, Venrob, MissMaggot

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

players to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2012-09-09 10:13:01).

Just looked at the votecount.

Mod: I had unvoted Paschendale

Fixed.

[Wiibox3]

Well, I honestly feel like I know nothing about this game. Not starting from the start really throws me off.

Honestly it seems to me that you are stalling. You have had several days to catch up and form some opinions or questions for us. You are getting off to a bad start and making yourself look like scum.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jambecca

Scum tend to get nervous when there is a consensus among the town that a particular player is town. I have seen scum try to show why something that people agree is a town-tell should not be viewed as a town-tell. It isn't a strong scumtell (paranoid townies do the same thing) but it is something I wanted to see your reaction on.

Ok. I get it now. I just thought it was a strange question at the time.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm clearly in the minority when it comes to policy lynches, so I won't bring it up again.

[Venrob]

SCHOOL JUST STARTED. IM SAD TO SAY I AM REQUESTING TO BE REPLACED DUE TO ACTIVITY ISSUES.

[JohnnyFarrar]

SCHOOL JUST STARTED. IM SAD TO SAY I AM REQUESTING TO BE REPLACED DUE TO ACTIVITY ISSUES.

I've been there. You get + responsibility points for making the grownup decision. I hope to see you come back when you have more time.

[jambecca]

School is starting for me, too, and I'm in two other games. I'm sorry for replacing, but I must be replaced, too. I'm really sorry. Don't grudge on my slot, I was not stalling, I am just busy.

[JohnnyFarrar]

and then we waited.

[Cheery Dog]

Well this is getting nowhere.

UNVOTE:

[JohnnyFarrar]

Just did a quick skim of nhammen's two town games (since we're just kinda waiting now)

The newbie game was a bit too hectic (though it looked really fun) to glean any major similarities/differences in playstyle,
but the Mini matches his current play quite comfortably.

He says drops a few 'seems' here and here, and there are 'slight' reads all over the place. I'd say he was a bit more free with his vote in the mini, but that's not a huge problem for me here since we don't really have a lot of scumreads in this game.

[MissMaggot]

I can't really piece it together as well as I'd like, and I'm stuck typing my phone for now, but my feeling that I've been witholding was that Paschen and Nhammen are quite possibly scumpartners. I would give some specifics with links, but navigating with my phone is a chore and I don't have as much time as I would like to attend to this game. Just read Nhammen and Pasch together, especially from these last few pages, and let us know what you think.

[StrangerCoug]

SCHOOL JUST STARTED. IM SAD TO SAY I AM REQUESTING TO BE REPLACED DUE TO ACTIVITY ISSUES.

School is starting for me, too, and I'm in two other games. I'm sorry for replacing, but I must be replaced, too. I'm really sorry. Don't grudge on my slot, I was not stalling, I am just busy.

Looking for replacements.

[Cheery Dog]

I can't really piece it together as well as I'd like, and I'm stuck typing my phone for now, but my feeling that I've been witholding was that Paschen and Nhammen are quite possibly scumpartners. I would give some specifics with links, but navigating with my phone is a chore and I don't have as much time as I would like to attend to this game. Just read Nhammen and Pasch together, especially from these last few pages, and let us know what you think.

I'm not seeing it, but it might be because I have them both down as town at the moment.

and your vote is still on me, that's my point. do you honestly think i'm the scummiest player right now? if not, your vote is in the wrong place.

If you are town, even if you are the scummiest player, his vote would still be in the wrong place. This is making me want to join the wagon on you, but since we're currently looking for too replacements and either or both of those slots could be scum, I'm not going to open you up for a quickhammer when they replace in. (though if both slots are scum they could quickhammer now, but I seriously doubt that would happen).
Consider this L-1.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Welp. Not much happening. I guess I'll await MM's case and our two replacements.

[Wiibox3]

I guess I missread that situation.
UNVOTE: