Mafiascum.net

Ok so the reads list is going to have to wait until tomorrow since I'm getting hauled off to a BBQ. I do want to say, Vi/Tierce, that I don't agree with your interpretation of FT's #111 at all and I think you guys are applying way too high of a standard, especially in the early game -- FT comes across in that post to me as more like a guy who is genuinely struggling to get concrete reads this game rather than opportunistic scum or scum who can't fabricate reads and his whole paranoia of CES + really wishing for him to be town because he knows he's laser accurate seems really genuine.

What do you guys think of Sotty and Jason? Preview of coming attractions: I have Jason as slightly leaning town and Sotty as null.

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:What do you guys think of Sotty and Jason? Preview of coming attractions: I have Jason as slightly leaning town and Sotty as null.

You're not supposed to ruin the punchline in the previews. Totally not going to read it now.

Ready to unleash the dragon yet, Nacho?

let me catch up in a couple of other games first
then i have a present for you

So, after a re-read... I am still not sure wtf is going on. Josh and Nacho for scum though. Both mostly gut, but Josh jump on me was scummy as fuck.

Done!
CES's meta comes in groups.

town groups:
Mini 1368, Black Flag Nightless, Open 448, Micro 17, Newbie 1336, Open 394, Open 393 is one group.
Micro 59, Open 453, Open 433, Chrono Trigger Resurrection, Mini 1341, UT Newbie Van, Mini 1406 is another group, with Author Mafia and Mini 1324 being two special cases that we most likely won't see here. If he's town, we'll either see his play follow the first group, which is the CES we don't have to worry about because he's lynching scum. In the second case, there's this usually a point where he buckles down and goes "fuck it, I got this" that I'm decently confident he can't won't fake as scum, but some good CES scum games could help me back this up pretty nicely. The only good scum game I could find was NY Mafia 155, which didn't have the buckle down moment his replaced-in towngames had and no reason for it not to occur. Gonna find another scumgame to be sure, but I'm feeling pretty confident about this now.

meanwhile


jason has trouble faking reasoning as scum, and he's having plenty of trouble faking reasoning here. Sheeping CES while putting his vote on the easier lynch seems strange to me.

I don't really get many scumvibes from Sixty, get townvibes from Dazed and Confused. Mina's reaction to my vote seemed pretty town ("wait, why was that obvtown?"), and Tierce/Empire banter seems fairly standard and not something that I'd expect if they were trying to fool CES. Rach seems town as fuck thanks to how she's treating me/CES, Sotty is null as fuck until she actually does something (while I don't really expect her to open up the game with "I'm sick, don't know what's going on" as scum, I do know that she went through a case of the alignment fatigue and I don't know whether she got over that yet or not). FourTrouble thinking that he was a priority for Rach to discredit was town as hell, and I don't really give a shit about Josh yet because he's going to flake, but I doubt that he's partners with jason.

Jason's last post was terrible, going with a popular position calling Josh/Nacho scum even though he's claims to have no idea what is going on. I agree completely with Nacho on this.

Dazed and Confused, I want to hear more from Sotty but so far I have a good town read on her. Her read on me seems very genuine, and her slight paranoia in response to my questioning her was not something I'd expect from scum at all.

Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

Why is Sotty Town?



Nacho's CES meta is accurate, if nothing else. Empire, thoughts?

(Mina, I don't want this to look like I'm ignoring you, especially since I think you are more experienced with anything CES has resembling to "openness" than either Empire or I, but the two of us have discussed his meta and this is me seeing whether Nacho's read is legitimate--which doesn't necessarily make Nacho Town, but it'd at least help read CES.)

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

Elaborate.

How much of NY155 have you read, Nacho?

i've read your ISO, i skimmed a few things around the end.

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:
2)

Josh Lyman

, it was implied that you like to quickhammer people at L-1. Is this true?

Nope. I'm a lurky-type of player who doesn't really meet anyone else's expectations.

unvote

Will re-read later today and place a vote.

this is why I am sure Josh be scum.... Along with his jump on me.

Nothing since and this was wednesday except for one extra empty post.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:jason has trouble faking reasoning as scum

Actually, I do think you are wrong, I don't like to self meta, but my arguements are more solid when scum.

I'm terrible and the ~content~ is going to have to wait another day since I'm going out tonight and Mina's busy and I want to go over some things with her.

Sixty, can you answer our question in #150 please? Also how did you guys get such a strong townread on our slot so early? I know I'm super easy to read but uhh yeah.

↑ Sixty wrote:Nacho's CES meta is accurate, if nothing else. Empire, thoughts?

How so?

And personally, I've given up on even trying to read CES so I'm just going to sheep Mina on him since she's more versed in CESology than I am/wait for him to get nightkilled if he's town.

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:Sixty, can you answer our question in #150 please? Also how did you guys get such a strong townread on our slot so early? I know I'm super easy to read but uhh yeah.

We're still wrapping our minds around both of them. They haven't exactly been prolific with commentary, and we would rather hold our cards close to the chest on both of them until they provide something that might lead more in one way or another.

As for you--Post 8 and Post 11 are a kind of bravado that you probably wouldn't do in that manner in a game with me and Tammy. You wouldn't act in such a way unless you were capable of backing that up. It's a bit of the Town arrogance we both have. There is also Mina's Post 65 (I even know the post number by heart, I memorize the strangest details), and later on other posts. Mina is rather paranoid that she might slip as scum, there is no way she would let that many typos go unchecked as your posts have had. What is more, she has this bit:

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:Haven't communicated with Empire since this game started, but it's probably a bad sign that the players I thought were the only possible mislynches when the player are all suspects of mine to some degree.

This is amazing, because it mirrors one of my fears in this game. Pre-game, it was visible that this playerlist has excellent players and then two or three players that are the designated mislynches. And I was feeling as Mina: only the weaker players were standing out as scummyish (and frankly I'm washing my hands of Nacho and letting the other head deal with that can of devilish details). The fact that she pointed it out reads much more like Town paranoia of the stronger players than of Mina-scum trying to hide her tracks in plain sight.


I was asking you about CES's meta, not reading him. The "two groups for Town games" thing that Nacho wrote seems to hark back to CES's replace-in behavior (or later tackling of the game). It seems like our main problem in Sherlock was that we did not differentiate between these two Town metas for him.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

Elaborate.

Sotty is a gut read; she just looks town. Can't really articulate why.

Nacho is just being his usual town self. Surely you can see that, no?

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

Elaborate.

Sotty is a gut read; she just looks town. Can't really articulate why.

Nacho is just being his usual town self. Surely you can see that, no?

Not enough. Please explain these reads without just making more vague statements.

↑ jasonT1981 wrote:

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:jason has trouble faking reasoning as scum

Actually, I do think you are wrong, I don't like to self meta, but my arguements are more solid when scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
?

"I don't like to self meta, so let me self meta." <--- That made me lol

I feel a lot better today so I am going to wade into this game and see what I can see.

↑ Sixty wrote:Yes, jason, let's put an hydra of two good players (whom you have seen as Town before) at L-1 in a game with Josh Lyman, because that's a really bright idea.

So part of the reason I gave Jason a town read for his lynch-1 move was because of this reaction from Sixty. It just rubs me all the wrong way, even more so now Josh has basically come out and said he's not a quick hammerer. What exactly were you getting at with his point Sixty? It feels very much like an attempt to swat Jason down without actually engaging him, undermining him even. So what you're a hydra of two "good" players? Why does that make you RVS wagon immune?

I just hate this whole thing.

↑ Sixty wrote:I'm waiting for the next sign of the Apocalypse right now. Empire appears to be the same alignment we are and Town. Obviously this means there is something very wrong with the universe and my luck is about to run out somehow.

Just because you keep repeating that you are town, doesn't make it so.

↑ RachMarie wrote:Thanks for changing CES, it is too early for a lynch, and I have played with FT before it would not surprise me if he came in and hammered without paying attention. I don't know Josh, but I gather from what was said that he too tends to derp.

Besides Nacho needs to get in here with more than just an RVS vote.

Echoing Sixty's 29 but with a different player as the potential day crasher. Hmm.

Rach is working super hard to post in a game without actually giving much content. I don't care about meta reviews, what is going on in this game? Her whole interaction with Four over his potential quick hammer is so vague. Post 55 is Rach basically saying she has seen a quick hammer happen, but not one from Four? I am pretty confused by what she is getting at with this whole thing and why she threw Four's name into the mix.

↑ RachMarie wrote:Because I have played many times with Nacho, I will over time have a better chance of pegging him, while I do not really know Josh so going with CES on that. I think if CES turns out to be wrong on the scum team, the consequences for Town are less disastrous mislynching Josh than mislynching Nacho.

Defaults to CES
Doesn't actually seem to have a scum read of either player
Talks about mislynching in a reasonable manner

H-A-T-E this.

↑ jasonT1981 wrote:

vote: Josh

yup, that was the reaction to my post I was looking.

Someone comes in auto wanting the lynch without question or hesitation, and has since said 0 about it when it died down.

This is scummy why? What about others reactions?

↑ RachMarie wrote:FT I am not defending Nacho, I do not give him a free pass here. However given more time I can peg Nacho's alignment better. While Josh definitely seems scummy. CES is a very good player look at this game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21878 Bonus you get to see me playing as Town and Tiece as Town as well.

At the point you made this post what was scummy about Josh?

↑ Sixty wrote:

↑ Sotty7 wrote:Tone and gut is all I got. I just don't see scum arguing with Rach the way you did.

Actually

... This is an instance in which his indignation had

nothing

to do with his alignment, just that he thought he was being misrepresented. Even scum can get angry if they think they are being portrayed in a way they do not deserve, so we don't see that RachMarie/FourTrouble interaction pointing to FourTrouble-Town in any manner. It's a person-matter, not an alignment-matter.

I still disagree with this. Rach came off looking a lot worse in my opinion.



Minimal (READ: almost no) actual game content or explanation of her reads. Lots and lots of meta of other games though. Clearly active lurking.

I kinda wanted to put my vote on the Puppy but only held off because Empire seems to be saying the obnoxious town thing is a common town meta? I kinda hate that but will have to look because I'm finding it extremely fake and crappy. Also spotting some links to Rach in there. Another thing that is bugging me is that I'm not reading a lot of Vi's posts in the hydra. Am I right with that?

D+C, Four, CES are my current town reads in that order. Nacho can be slightly leaning town for now, we'll see how he goes. Josh is null, which he needs to change. Jason is leaning scum. I see a lot of posturing and not a lot of substance.

Hai Sottsville. You wanted a brief change in puppyhalves.

Well we've got good news for you! The other puppyhalf has been more strongly proposing FourTrouble/Sotty! Thank you for making that post and for this one. ^____^

(L-4)

Come back when you explain your Town reads, figure out how to read a slot that has dumped an ocean of obvTown on this thread, and basically stop posting like scum.

Also, we can't stop staring at your avvy because you're holding a ball. uo.ou