Newbie 1356 (OVER)

[shaboostein]

Ya I should probably explain myself. My computer's broken at the moment, so actually posting is sometimes difficult. However, I was able to lurk on my phone but not post. DDDP voted me so I decided it was time to post something and I went to my school library. Sorry for the excuses. Question: Does V/LA apply to my problem?

[Messiah]

Newbie 1356 - Vote Count 1.8

---

RadiantCowbells [L-2]

- shaboostein, dexter9264, Mutleyddmc
shaboostein [L-3] - Debonair Danny DiPietro, RadiantCowbell
Varsoon [L-4] - Paid Pyro
Paid Pyro [L-4] - Varsoon

Not Voting (2):

Zoggoth, Mist7676

With nine alive it takes

five

to lynch.

---

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-04-24 20:00:00)

[dexter9264]

Just dropping in to say I'm still following the game on my phone, just been real busy lately. I'll post actual stuff tomorrow when I get a chance

[Mist7676]

Yes limited access would. I don't like RC's post. He basically ignored the pressure on him, then places his vote on another person.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because the pressure on me makes no sense and no town in their right mind would confirm intent to hammer based on the logic given by the three votes on me thus far.

[Varsoon]

Because the pressure on me makes no sense and no town in their right mind would confirm intent to hammer based on the logic given by the three votes on me thus far.

You want out of this game, right?
Better start working on doing a good job of being town, and real fast.
Currently, this response is pretty OMGUS and base-covering if anyone does express intent to hammer.

Have an L-1, it'll help town more than the content you've produced so far.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[Paid Pyro]

Ok so I dropped a Spoiler down on a partial iso of Varsoon. I've left my comment out of the spoiler so they can be easily spotted

Spoiler:

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree at this point, mostly because our back and forth is a whole third of the game right now.

I would like to express two things, though:
I am town.
I am not an ally of Mutley's. In fact, I can't stand his posting style or how he's played the game so far. I'd probably have a vote on him now, if only to lynch him as a player, but I must put personal desires aside for what's best for town. I hope he's scum this game, so that if we lynch him, it'll be all the better.

1. He is very quick to claim town. He has one vote on him but he's professing he is town. Right or wrong, it's early and entirely unnecessary.
2. His next line is a soft push. I read this as I'm not a fan so I think I'll vote him, hope he's scum.

Spoiler:

Vote: Mutley

Seriously douchebaggy style of play, not working towards town win condition, just trying to get himself a meta.
Or can he be replaced? I don't want to play with one potential town acting scummy all game so that he doesn't look scum when he is scum.

Very tempted to put a vote on him to lynch his playstyle, too, but Policy Lynching usually turns up town. :/

I'd rather get some real scumtells out of people.

Now here is some distancing from a potential lynch? I understand the drive to move away from a PL but this was 4 posts later, and you are changing your tune.

Spoiler:

What the hell is a meta? You guys take things more seriously than the other game it's only 3 pages of inactivity! Lighten up! Definitely looking at mist though as possible scum. Seemed an easy vote for a scum covered up in crappy reasoning. Trying to get a easy day 1 town lynch.

A meta is when a player plays a certain way over a series of games so that they can argue that it is simply their playing style.
For instance, I tend to be very thorough and I voice when player's personalities rub me the wrong way.
If I ever get called out on that, I'll tell them to look at my previous games and realize that's just how I play.

I do think that one person with a vote on you is scum.

So in the next post is the vote count:
Mutleyddmc [L-2] - Zoggoth, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Mist7676

Per Varsoon he believes one of: Zoggoth, DDDP or Mist is scum.

Spoiler:

IF ANYONE ELSE VOTES MUTLEY WITHOUT A GOOD REASON, YOU WILL BE SCUM SUSPECT. THIS GOES DOUBLY IF ANYONE JUST HAMMERS HIM, ESP. IF HE FLIPS TOWN

I think we should seriously discuss the possibility of him being town or scum. Honestly, I'm null-leaning town right now, but my opinion is largely painted by how he reacted as well as his previous game.

I've already posted my comments about this post. So he's already claimed one is scum on the mutely list. Now if anyone else votes or hammers they would be scum also. Why as town would you alert scum to scummy play? In fact I see this as him signaling his partner not to vote. He's feels Mutely is leaning town, but want's discussion about him being scum? He's fence sitting here. Playing the middle to gain credibility depending on which way everyone sways.

Spoiler:

Well, Paid Pyro, since I know that I am town, I know that people levying baseless arguments against me are more likely to be scum than other players.

So, by saying something like I did just earlier, or making other intentional missteps

, I'm inviting scum and town speculation.
It's helped me get better reads on people so far, and your reaction was pretty genuinely scummy.

1. Here he is claiming town again, with one vote? I'm not sure what's prompting it. I see this as "the more he says it, we the town just my believe it"
2. My agruement wasn't baseless it was "Based" on my feeling of your post.
3. Vasoon admits to intentionally posting something scummy and when I call him out on it attacks me

Spoiler:

I don't know your town. So why should I believe you, cuz you said so? How many times have you professed your townieness this game?

Wait I think we should take a straw poll of everyone here. Everyone should claim. I wonder what the response will be. So please explain why I'm scummy, because I do t trust you?

You should believe that I'm town by evaluating all my posts so far and understanding that all of my motivations have town's interest at heart. When the Mutley wagon was started, I didn't slam my vote on another player in response, nor did I push the mutley wagon even more (although I could, and I could even hammer him at this point, but I won't, because I'm not scum and I'm not sure he's scum either). The point of playing town is to scumhunt and to make plays that are at town's best interest.

You're scummy because you fell for the bait. You were quick to make accusations of me, because I didn't jump on the wagon like everyone else. It's a scum tactic. Should scrutiny fall on me later, I'll be sure to defend myself and prove that I've got town's best interests at heart. If you were simply scumhunting, my earlier replies would have been enough to vindicate me, and if this reply doesn't do it for you, then you're truly grasping at straws.
The fact that your response to being called out as scum isn't to vindicate yourself, but to call me out even more as scum is pretty trashy, too. If you're town, stop making such baseless accusations. It does nothing for town.
You'll probably advocate a Mutley/Varsoon scumteam if it'll get lynches, because it seems like I'm defending him. Mutley could flip scum this game, but going from how he played his last game, and how he's playing this one, I'm less sure of him being scum than I am of other players who don't have such an outlandish playstyle.

The way I see it, Mutley should give us his reads right now and make a case for why he isn't scum.
Hopefully, it's more than him hammering himself like he did before.

- More town I'm town.
- He's pretty sure Mutely not scum
- how is me questioning you not scum hunting?
- He says twice in this post Mutely probably isn't scum but asks for a case for why he isn't scum? If he believes he's null / town and pushing me, why does Mutely have to make a case for why he isn't scum?

Spoiler:

Hey DDDP, I think he's saying we're buddies. I guess we'll laugh it up in the QT later

Scumbluffing is not a town tactic.

Didn't he just say earlier he posted something scummy to get a reaction, and it was "town motivated". How is it when I do it it's not? Varsoon is continuing to argue both sides of the fence again.

Spoiler:

sorry should have posted it before. So when I joke about being scum its harmful to town. When pyro does it its fine and not the same?

This. There's a fair deal of hypocrisy in this game.

Wow we have a bunch of uptight people in here 4 pages prob about 15 posts by me and that's too much and harming the town. Nice....... Can't see how in 4 pages anyone could possibly actually be 'harming' the town. If I had only posted once or twice. Would you guys have had some huge leads then? No it's day 1 with 4 pages.

For me I'd say mist is my only mafia target at the moment. Covering it up by calling it a policy lynch etc even though its 3 pages in etc. just mafia covering for poor reasoning really IMO.

In terms on that meta thing varsoon I would really care enough to do that. Every game is different and I'd never actually look at other people's previous games. As while they could be useful I am sure people do that to trick people. They say oh look that's what I'm like etc or act different to their advantage. Eg they could say look how I was when I was scum in this game nothing like I am in this current game etc

I disagree, it's quite easy to completely alter the flow of the game within the first four pages. I wish that players would realize RVS isn't eons long and ends as soon as anyone makes worthwhile plays and that, as a pro-town player, people should try to make such plays.

I'm leaning scum on Mist, too.

I also agree that meta'ing a player is a poor method of ISO'ing them. People will play differently under different circumstances and assuming a modernist approach to identity simply doesn't work in a game of rhetoric that has every player review their words before posting them.

As far as your other posts go, I wouldn't make such personal attacks on other players regardless of alignment.

I'm fairly certain RadiantCowbells is town, and I'm leaning town on you, too, due to your responses.

Regardless of Mutley being scum or not, everyone shouldn't forget that there are two scum players in the game.
I suggest we find good evidence of another one--one who is likely on Mutley's wagon.

As far as thinking things over, just hit preview before you submit. Re-read your post, and if you've thought of new things to add, do it then. That way, you don't clutter discussion with several posts back-to-back. I'm guilty of this, too, though.

- So this is a great post by Mutely. Varsoon chainsaws his argument to say the rest of the players who voted Mutely are hypocrites. I seem to recall him arguing both side of the fence earlier.
-Mist leans scum
-RC lean town
-Again says someone on Mutely's wagon is likely scum. They are: Mutleyddmc [L-1] - Debonair Danny DiPietro, Mist7676, dexter9264, Zoggoth

Spoiler:

I'd like to hear from Zaggoth and DDDP on why they still have votes on Mutley, and if/why they think he should still be the D1 lynch.
Especially since neither have posted much since voting on him.

I'm suspicious of Mist, especially since she seems so adamant to keep this wagon rolling. Could just be town doing the whole scumhunting thing. Mist, how do you feel about lynching Mutley D1--do you think it's stupid to have a player at L-1 when two of the votes on him were parked there and the players who made them (DDDP and Zaggoth) haven't posted since? What do you think will happen if he flips town? What if he flips scum?

-If Mutley is at L-1 and he thinks Mutley is town why is he asking for their case again. I think he's soft pushing for a lynch here. He didn't hammer because he could at this point and is looking for an excuse.
-Mist is leaning scum

Spoiler:

As of now, I am not convinced that Mutley is scum. Why?
He hasn't led a wagon on a single player, nor has he strongly advocated lynching anyone.
The only player that he's given a scum-read on is Mist, but his vote is still parked on Shaboos despite it seeming more like an RVS vote/reaction test.

Honestly, he's done the most pro-town work so far, because by scumbluffing like he has, the other players have responded in a myriad of ways. Even if he is scum, this has given good reads and taken the game in a solid direction that was necessary during RVS.

Regardless, I wouldn't rule him out as scum so quickly, but I'd prefer to lynch a scum-candidate whose flip would do something more constructive for the game.

-Varsoon now decides Mutley has been pro-town by scumbluffing. Scum bluffing before was not town aligned. He's flipping again. Again distancing himself from the potential lynch.
-Wait, at the end of this post did he give ONE more soft push. He still could be scum.

Spoiler:

Good reads, Zoggoth, this is a good example of how to produce reads and what they should look like.

With that, you're definitely more town in my book.

Right now, I'm largely null on most of you, leaning town on Mutley, Mist, Zoggoth, and DDDP.
Leaning scum on Paid Pyro, and with the points that Zoggoth made about Dexter, I'm suspecting him as well.

-Mutley wagon less dexter is now leaning town? What happened to one on mutley's wagon is scum? It took Zoggoth to point Dexter out? And with one post Varsoon goes from Mist leans scum to Mist leans town. In my opinion he is completely fence sitting again. He trying to stay neutral with the game so he has fall back positions.

[Paid Pyro]

Because the pressure on me makes no sense and no town in their right mind would confirm intent to hammer based on the logic given by the three votes on me thus far.

You want out of this game, right?
Better start working on doing a good job of being town, and real fast.
Currently, this response is pretty OMGUS and base-covering if anyone does express intent to hammer.

Have an L-1, it'll help town more than the content you've produced so far.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

This is bad guys.

Don't LYNCH RC.

I think she is town also.

Why does Varsoon put someone who he thinks leans town at L-1? He is scum.

MORE VARSOON VOTES!

[Varsoon]

Nice case, Pyro, but I'm sussing out players and applying pressure too much in too many places. I suppose you could assume that's fence sitting, but, regardless.
This is a really hard OMGUS move on your part. I build a case on you, you ISO me, etc, etc.

How do you feel about RC and Shaboos wagons that are -currently- happening?


P-Edit:
So putting more pressure on a player by putting them at L-1 equals scum, amirite?
Oh, and if she flips town, feel free to suspect me. And, you know, everyone else on her wagon.
It's not like I'm actually hammering, and if anyone does hammer, it's going to be a play they'll have to explain alongside my justification for putting her at L-1.

This game is seriously lacking in activity and movement.

[Varsoon]

I'll say it here, just in case I happen to forget to some other time.

If you guys do decide to build a wagon on me,
and you actually lynch me,
when I flip, keep in mind that it was Pyro who, in boldface, asked you to do it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Paid Pyro's logic is solid and I find little wrong with it.
At the very least, Varsoon should defend himself.

Vote: Varsoon

[Paid Pyro]

I'll say it here, just in case I happen to forget to some other time.

If you guys do decide to build a wagon on me,
and you actually lynch me,
when I flip

(scum)

, keep in mind that it was Pyro who, in boldface, asked you to do it.

Here let me edit your post for you.

[Varsoon]

Paid Pyro's logic is solid and I find little wrong with it.
At the very least, Varsoon should defend himself.

Vote: Varsoon

Nice OMGUS and hop onto a wagon to distract from attention that's on you now that you're L-1.
Instead of defending yourself, I should do so, right?
That's a deflect, and quite the slip considering that Pyro came in and put a vote on me and mentioned how he didn't agree with your wagon in his post. That's either scum-team or serious buddying.
Either way, your play isn't very town.

What points would you like me to defend myself on, though?
Do you have any questions of your own?


Haha, you're squirming pretty hard, Pyro.

[Paid Pyro]

I'm fairly certain RadiantCowbells is town, and I'm leaning town on you, too, due to your responses.

Varsoon: "fairly cerain" RC is Town

I'm not so sure about the Radiant-lurk-scum idea.

I've checked the thread a few times without replying, too.
Nothing's happening and lots of people are inactive.
Does this make me scum?
Hardly.

Varsoon: Defends RC wagon

DDDP, thanks for the pressure, actually got me to bust my butt and find a computer to get on. (I'm assuming it was pressure)

RC's acting weird. His arguments against mutley, as well as the entire mutley wagon made sense, but now that mutley's actually trying to post content and get involved (versus making the scum-slip jokes), I don't think policy lynching him D1 would be beneficial. I find the game lacking in scum reads right now though, especially with the multey wagon still being disputed.

I'm fine with leaving my vote on RC at the moment. Start playing or get replaced. (I'm not sure what the replacement procedures are. Just PM the mod I guess)

You seemed to react pretty quickly to the 'pressure' put on you, despite being absent for so long.

Anyway, I agree with your points on the RC lynch

, but Policy lynching is always a dumb idea. Always. Let her replace out, and if the replacement gives us scummy content, then we can lynch. As of now, it's just too easy a wagon for scum to push, too.

Varsoon: Likes to pressure RC to play, but too easy of a wagon for scum

Because the pressure on me makes no sense and no town in their right mind would confirm intent to hammer based on the logic given by the three votes on me thus far.

You want out of this game, right?

Better start working on doing a good job of being town, and real fast.

Currently, this response is pretty OMGUS and base-covering if anyone does express intent to hammer.

Have an L-1, it'll help town more than the content you've produced so far.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

WHY PLACE A TOWN READ AT L-1? Where does his opinion change. Also look at the bolded. This is a slip in my opinion. If he thought RC needs to be at L-1 and scum why ask RC to work at being town?

Guy's please unvote RC at this point. I really think Varsoon is scum. He's the one we should be voting.

[Varsoon]

Keep squirming.

While RC, who I still think is town, hasn't replied yet, I've gotten plenty out of you.

VOTE: Paid Pyro


Welcome back to the thread.

[Mutleyddmc]

Nice posts pyro pretty much summed up a little why I said in post 139 that I had some suspicions on Varsoon.
RC is just a hypocrite. Complains about me etc yet has been exactly the same but worse. I don't like hypocrites. However I did have a town read at some point on RC so is appreciate some effort to defend yourself.

After I asked dddp why the vote on shaabostein. I looked at his votes and would have been happy to vote on him after his clear intent to hammer me. He unfortunately for him maybe? Left me time to defend myself. My guess was he put it out there so it wasn't so clear a scum move and was hoping to come back and hammer an easy day 1?

I want to keep the pressure on RC so please start comtributing. If you do ill prob change to shaabostein

[Mutleyddmc]

Looking at his posts not votes!

[dexter9264]

Wait didn't Varsoon say earlier that whoever puts someone at L-1 is scum?

[Varsoon]

Wait didn't Varsoon say earlier that whoever puts someone at L-1 is scum?

Notice how no one hammered RC?

[dexter9264]

Yeah it seems like there are a few players that kinda just lurk and only post when they've been called out on something. But I'm not gonna condemn them for it since I haven't been very active recently, and also I feel like real life should always take precedence over mafia.

RC

Okay so I did an ISO of all his posts.

ISO 0 (post 4): RVS vote on Mist.
ISO 1 (post 12): Answers my question about lying about roles, says should be done for gambits
ISO 2 (post 14): Complains bout inactivity
ISO 3 (post 23): Claims dayvig completely not seriously during a lull in activity
ISO 4 (post 27): Complains about inactivity, self votes
ISO 5 (post 44): Complains about inactivity
ISO 6 (post 46): Says Mist is null, leaning town. Then votes Shaboostein for no reason?
ISO 7 (post 64): Votes Mutley due to his unhelpful and scum like play
ISO 8 (post 73): Unvotes Mutley, wants a replacement
ISO 9 (post 95): Wants Mutley replaced
ISO 10 (post 118): Votes Mutley
ISO 11 (post 130): Not playing until Mutley gets lynched
ISO 12 (post 132): Says he already offered to be replaced in response to Mutley telling him he has become the troll
ISO 13 (post 148): Votes Shaboostein for lurking and then responding instantly
ISO 14 (post 154): Says the pressure on him make no sense and no one will hammer
ISO 15 (post 160): Agree with Paid Pyro and votes for Varsoon

16 posts. Iso 0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11 are all completely unimportant to the game. Thats about half his posts.

The other half of his posts is voting/unvoting, or just restating what other people have said. RC has actually not brought anything new to the table.

Vote: Shaboostein

baaah

No but seriously, lurks away the game, then BAM gets voted and responds instantly.
I don't like it.

Just like 2 posts above him is Varsoon saying the exact same thing

Paid Pyro's logic is solid and I find little wrong with it.
At the very least, Varsoon should defend himself.

Vote: Varsoon

Again, only a few posts above PP had laid out an entire case on Varsoon.

So pretty much, RC's posts have all been fluff or repeating what others have said. I'd like to see some of your own ideas, rather than you just restating other's ideas.

Shaboostein

Okay. So I asked him why we shouldn't lynch him D1. Shaboostein responds

Why not lynch me during D1? Because you want to catch scum and win, and I can help you do that.

Errrr.....I don't know if its just me, but I haven't seen Shaboostein help us catch scum very much.

As for how I'm going to help the town catch the scum, I'm gonna closely look at the game and use my cranium to make logical arguments and reasonings about players. I will then use my power of the vote to pressure the scummiest player. That's the game plan so far. I'll let you know if something changes.

I also don't see this happening very much.

I don't want to have to deal with Mutely's shenanigans later in the game. He's at L-1 now, so I'll let him post and make his case. I'm pretty sure there's scum on his wagon, he's just too easy a target. If he get's lynched, I hope its a bus, but at the moment I think he just hinders the town as is.

It seems like there is scum on the Mutley wagon! This must be the helping the town Shaboostein was talking about!

I do think that one person with a vote on you[Mutley] is scum.

Oh wait this post came before yours and its literally on the same page above yours.

The good news is that you then actually post useful information, so hopefully the rest of your posts are like that. I do want to bring to attention something tho.

Remember RC's random Shaboostein vote earlier? It was when PP told him to not selfvote. Just two posts after RC's vote on him, Shaboostein suddenly appears in the thread. With an OMGUS vote on RC.
Then, he disappears again until DDD votes him. Yall have already discussed how BOOM he was suddenly back after the vote. Its just definitely something to note, that hes done this twice already.

As for Varsoon, I haven't looked that thoroughly at you and your posts, but judging from what PP said, you seem to be a HUUUUGGEEEEE hypocrite. Also, I really don't like how you put RC at L-1 since you said earlier in huge bold text not to put Mutley at L-1. Why is it not okay to put Mutley at L-1, but it's okay to put RC at L-1? It seems like you're mighty protective of him.

[Paid Pyro]

Wait didn't Varsoon say earlier that whoever puts someone at L-1 is scum?

Notice how no one hammered RC?

In the span of 36 minutes.

[Paid Pyro]

Paid Pyro's logic is solid and I find little wrong with it.
At the very least, Varsoon should defend himself.

Vote: Varsoon

Nice OMGUS and hop onto a wagon to distract from attention that's on you now that you're L-1.
Instead of defending yourself, I should do so, right?
That's a deflect, and quite the slip considering that Pyro came in and put a vote on me and mentioned how he didn't agree with your wagon in his post. That's either scum-team or serious buddying.
Either way, your play isn't very town.

What points would you like me to defend myself on, though?
Do you have any questions of your own?


Haha, you're squirming pretty hard, Pyro.

Keep squirming.

While RC, who I still think is town, hasn't replied yet, I've gotten plenty out of you.

VOTE: Paid Pyro


Welcome back to the thread.

@ Anyone: can you spot the blatant contradiction between these two posts?

[RadiantCowbells]

Heh heh heh.

I remember that stance well.

So, your father taught you swordplay, did he?

How very happy that makes me.

Heh heh heh.

[shaboostein]

@ Mod, can I be replaced?

Sorry, due to my current circumstances I can't handle more than one game at a time. Hopefully my replacement will be more active Good luck town (and scum )

Heh heh heh.

I remember that stance well.

So, your father taught you swordplay, did he?

How very happy that makes me.

Heh heh heh.

Mad King Ashnard!
I will cut you down with this blade and end your reign of terror!

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh my god you play Fire Emblem don't replace out pleeeeeease

I need you