Mini 1621: Frog Mafia (KERO)

[Rumia x Cirno]

votecount 1.5

2birds1stone (3): Garmr, Jackel98, VictorDeAngelo

Garmr (2): Flubbernugget, 2birds1stone
ProHawk (1): Feysal
massive (1): Primate
Primate (1): ProHawk
Jackel98 (1): massive
Flubbernugget (1): Bookitty
WaffleGhost (1): Gendaberry

Not voting (2): Salamence20, WaffleGhost

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 16, 19:15 GMT-7 or in: (expired on 2014-11-16 19:15:00)

[2birds1stone]

Garmr retroactively claims bullshit gambit, town completely ignores it.

I'm honestly not interested in voting anyone else today. At all.

[Garmr]

Just looking through 2birds games he seems to make it end game while his mafia a couple of time but he gets mislynched a lot as town. But considering all the scummy shit his done and how some people are avoiding the wagon and not really commenting on it or avoiding taking a stance on it(massive,waffleghost),
I feel the chances of him being scum.

Flubber is 2nd he just saw a wagon and not the reasoning from the people on it. (most were rvs.) and jumped on it and basically said he sheeped poor logic.

@2birds stoned
What do you think of flubber.

[massive]

Also massive, what do you think of Garmr and 2birds? You seem to have mostly stayed out of it.

They're both goobers who know a lot of Mafia terminology.

[Garmr]

Also massive, what do you think of Garmr and 2birds? You seem to have mostly stayed out of it.

They're both goobers who know a lot of Mafia terminology.

How about a read then.

[WaffleGhost]

@Gendaberry Check Newbie 1543. You honestly think as scum I'd say "OH I KNOW! I'LL DO THE EXACT SAME THING THAT GOT ME LYNCHED IN MY LAST GAME!!!" ?
I also didn't intend to be attacking anyone, I was stating my opinion on playstyle. I intended to share my stance on appearing town. I've had serious misconceptions about things in IRL mafia and was I mafia? No.

@Victor Whilst just reading through here's how people struck me based on my gut.
Null'
-Victor
-Salamence
-Gendaberry
-Massive
-Garmr
-ProHawk
-Jackel
-Primate
-Flubber
*I either didn't have the necessary amount of posts or didn't want to make a decision with what I had. In general I don't find reads before a certain number of pages to have any real weight.
**I know it's alot of null:/
Town
-Bookitty
-Every body's favourite wraith, your dear, WAFFLEGHOST! At you service.
Scum
-2birds definitely came off as scum but I can't say why at the moment.

I feel like I'm missing someone.

[massive]

Waffleghost

: Anything specific about Bookitty that strikes you as particularly town?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Gendaberry Check Newbie 1543. You honestly think as scum I'd say "OH I KNOW! I'LL DO THE EXACT SAME THING THAT GOT ME LYNCHED IN MY LAST GAME!!!" ?
I also didn't intend to be attacking anyone, I was stating my opinion on playstyle. I intended to share my stance on appearing town. I've had serious misconceptions about things in IRL mafia and was I mafia? No.

@Victor Whilst just reading through here's how people struck me based on my gut.
Null'
-Victor
-Salamence
-Gendaberry
-Massive
-Garmr
-ProHawk
-Jackel
-Primate
-Flubber
*I either didn't have the necessary amount of posts or didn't want to make a decision with what I had. In general I don't find reads before a certain number of pages to have any real weight.
**I know it's alot of null:/
Town
-Bookitty
-Every body's favourite wraith, your dear, WAFFLEGHOST! At you service.
Scum
-2birds definitely came off as scum but I can't say why at the moment.

I feel like I'm missing someone.

Hang on let me just trim this down so we're dealing with the actual content.

@Victor
Town
-Bookitty
Scum
-2birds definitely came off as scum but I can't say why at the moment.

Insightful.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WaffleGhost

[Bookitty]

Garmr retroactively claims bullshit gambit,

town completely ignores it.

I'm still null on Garmr. Not no-information null, but conflicting information null. I don't like his joke posts, but I also think they drew a lot of attention to him in the early part of the game. I'm not sure that's something scum would do. That said, I don't buy the "gambit" comment. Trying to act very very scummy isn't usually a productive way to catch scum in my opinion -- it's more likely to catch town who spot what they believe to be scumtells and vote accordingly. So still null on Garmr.

Not precisely true.

What's your take on garmr, WaffleGhost? He's posted quite a bit.

I wouldn't say my reads are set in stone at the moment, but I at least have some general "lean-town, lean-scum" ideas for most of the players. Not Salamence, though; I've never been able to read him, and even less so when he doesn't post.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber, I already explained this.

A) You said I was full of shit.

Therefore, I am either scum (because scum are full of shit) and you voted for me for that reason.

Or, I am just a "shit" player and you voted me randomly.

The first would be a serious vote. The second would be a random vote. You yourself stated that you were not saying I was a "shit" player.

So instead of speculating, how about you just tell me if your vote was serious or not.

Serious. I assumed you lied because I just got out of a town game where I voted the mod.

[Garmr]

Garmr retroactively claims bullshit gambit,

town completely ignores it.

I'm honestly not interested in voting anyone else today. At all.

he just admitted he and flubber are scum.

[WaffleGhost]

@Victor, would you please elaborate on "insightful" Your sarcasm does not aid the town. Explain yourself. Explain why you're voting me. You asked me to say what I thought. I did. I see no reason why you think that I should die, perhaps you are a lie, if yes then you were quite sly. (How do you like dem rhymes? )

@Massive, not really, like I said it's just based off of gut.

@Bookitty Ehhhhhhhhhhh, I'm not quite sure I'm conflicted.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor, would you please elaborate on "insightful" Your sarcasm does not aid the town. Explain yourself. Explain why you're voting me. You asked me to say what I thought. I did. I see no reason why you think that I should die, perhaps you are a lie, if yes then you were quite sly. (How do you like dem rhymes? )

Man, one little vote and your already sweating.

Anyone want to see how he reacts if he gets a second?

[WaffleGhost]

Already have 2 votes:P

[Bookitty]

Waffleghost

: Anything specific about Bookitty that strikes you as particularly town?

I didn't want to respond until WG did, but now I can.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Man,

one

two

little vote

s

and your already sweating.

Anyone want to see how he reacts if he gets a

second

third

?

Corrected it.

[Rumia x Cirno]

Juls replaces Salamence20!

[Bookitty]

Thanks, Juls!

[Juls]

UNVOTE:
Hi Bookitty. I /in'd too late but wanted to play with you and Salamence again. Sucks I am replacing him. So give me the tldr?

[Bookitty]

My perspective:

Garmr entered the game with a couple of fakeclaims (miller, FBI agent) and I am assuming he was just kidding around. He claimed they were gambits to trap scum but I don't see how they could be because they weren't given any time to work before the next one came around.

2birds1stone vs. Garmr: 2birds1stone has made a couple of comments that don't sit well with me, including that he's actively trying to look town (weird he'd admit it though) and that everyone is ignoring his case on Garmr, which isn't true.

WaffleGhost has a couple of votes but I'm reading him as newbnull. You can check on that for yourself and give me feedback. Maybe buddying me by calling me town this page.

VictorAngelo was voting me for being too serious during RVS and then dropped it and doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He's voting the leading wagon right now, but had a weird "vote Flubbernugget" "unvote" "vote Bookitty" post somewhere a few pages back where it looked like he was distancing with Flubbernugget. Not a firm read on him though.

Vote count at top of this page. I am voting Flubbernugget for weird reasoning on his vote on Garmr (Sheeping the reads of the main wagon? Why not?)

Mild townreads on Primate and massive.

Still ten days to deadline. If I didn't mention them, they aren't on my radar.

This is just my perspective and could be wrong, but you asked

Quotes available upon request.

[Juls]

Interesting. I skimmed the first two pages while you were writing that and am surprised that Gamr actually labeled that as a gambit. I cringed when I saw miller and rolled my eyes when I saw FBI agent. That he actually tried to justify it as anything but RVS nonesense is surprising. I will do a proper catch up later tonight when I'm not phone posting.

[Gendaberry]

@Gendaberry Check Newbie 1543. You honestly think as scum I'd say "OH I KNOW! I'LL DO THE EXACT SAME THING THAT GOT ME LYNCHED IN MY LAST GAME!!!" ?
I also didn't intend to be attacking anyone, I was stating my opinion on playstyle. I intended to share my stance on appearing town. I've had serious misconceptions about things in IRL mafia and was I mafia? No.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that your actions aren't scummy because you got lynched for the same reasons in a previous game? I don't really get the last part about IRL mafia either.

Also, could you explain why you're not voting for 2birds even though he's your only scum read?

[Feysal]

I feel like I'm missing someone.

Yes, me.

Feysal's posts (two by the way, and only one is serious) are garbage and a cop-out from scum hunting I would like to state for the record.

And yet, in my one serious post I said more than you did in your ten.

What you should know is that this is my first game in almost two years, and I don't know any of you. Since I rely heavily on meta, this means I need time to research and get to know you. I don't just mean looking for differences between town and scum play, but I need to get a feel for your play in general. In the case of Garmr, I could imagine newbie scum doing what he did, but given his track record and that he is no newbie I don't think he would. As for you, I had a look at your past games today, and found out that this kind of play is typical in your recent town games. You looked better in some early games, but your meta is not exactly stable, you even taunted other players to meta read you in one game. This shifts my read on you toward null, and I could not find any useful scum meta on you anyway. Do delve into my case, or someone else, or just do something. Otherwise I don't know how I will ever get a solid read on you.

[Juls]

I promise to not wall after this but just getting caught up....

VOTE: Gendaberry

I think, after getting Fezzig in Princess Bride Mafia, that this may be the single most appropriate role PM I've ever received.

Primate

: So I'm like, ooh really? Which one? So I go and look ... Famous Cats, Mini 413. Dang, that was a while ago! skim skim skim HEY WAIT A MINUTE YOU RVSED ME IN THAT GAME TOO

Was Primate scum or town in that game?

Frog avatars everyone!
...
Take your pick. I may be persuaded to make an avatar if you can't find one you like.

Yes please! I just can't lose my eye so maybe like a frog in my eye (like a reflection)...that may be too tough :/ But yes please! I am easy, take your pick, but it must be pretty and my eye must be involved.

VOTE: 2birds1stone

Not really pro-town, imo. It can be used by scum to make town focus on meaningless facts instead of on actually scum-hunting.

What is the "it" you are referring to here and who is not really pro-town? I pressume you are talking about 2birds but the follow on sentence doesn't seem to jive with the vote/first sentence.

Why does ProHawk taking things just as seriously make my vote bad?

Better question, why did you single out Bookitty but not ProHawk?

Asked and answered.

I'm not accusing you of being scum, yet. Just stating my opinion as far as play. I'm just a dumb newbie though

Why did you feel the need to add the part from "Just" on?

ProHawk as possible Victor buddy.

I was with you initially (with hitting one not the other) but I read it as Victor was selectively reading. Why do you immediately jump to an association tell on page 3?

Only because you chainsawed your buddy.

Now Gamr is buddies with Victor? Do you always do associations on page 3? Like multiple ones?

no town runs around page 4 thinking they've solved the game.

This!

I'm still thinking about 2birds1stone. The "I am trying to look awesomely townie" thing is the exact opposite of Garmr's "I'm trying to look horribly scummy" and both seem odd from a town perspective.

This is kinda a summary of how I am feeling but I am getting a pinging of a scum-on-scum fight. Like a good cop/bad cop routine (sorta...more like Republican/Democrat)

Feysal's posts (Two by the way, and only one is serious) are garbage and a cop-out from scum hunting I would like to state for the record. Before I delve more into this topic, I would specifically like Garmr to comment on the following...

"Garmr is good at staying alive. He has not only won but survived twice as scum, and has been endgamed several times. That gives me a town read on him. I can't think of a reason why he would have deliberately called attention to himself like this if he were scum."

Although this is a teaser...

("I did not like his initial vote, and in his ten posts he has said and done remarkably little.")

Why are you still voting Primate?

Also massive, what do you think of Garmr and 2birds? You seem to have mostly stayed out of it.

They're both goobers who know a lot of Mafia terminology.

I spit out my milk. LOL

@Gendaberry Check Newbie 1543. You honestly think as scum I'd say "OH I KNOW! I'LL DO THE EXACT SAME THING THAT GOT ME LYNCHED IN MY LAST GAME!!!" ?
I also didn't intend to be attacking anyone, I was stating my opinion on playstyle. I intended to share my stance on appearing town. I've had serious misconceptions about things in IRL mafia and was I mafia? No.

@Victor Whilst just reading through here's how people struck me based on my gut.
Null'
-Victor
-Salamence
-Gendaberry
-Massive
-Garmr
-ProHawk
-Jackel
-Primate
-Flubber
*I either didn't have the necessary amount of posts or didn't want to make a decision with what I had. In general I don't find reads before a certain number of pages to have any real weight.
**I know it's alot of null:/
Town
-Bookitty
-Every body's favourite wraith, your dear, WAFFLEGHOST! At you service.
Scum
-2birds definitely came off as scum but I can't say why at the moment.

I feel like I'm missing someone.

Yep, that's a list of people with a town a scum and lots of nulls but my 8 year old could do that. What are your reasons? Also, regarding 161, I am not trying to be rude but is English your first language? Serious question.

------------
Overall I think the fight between Garmr and 2birds comes out looking worse for 2birds mainly for the association tells. Something is just setting me off that they may be buddies though. Maybe I can get Feysal to look up if either are hard-bussers (cause I am lazy ). Also, Waffle seems really odd. I'm not sure if I am scumreading him yet or not but I read his posts and I scrunch my nose a lot. I am townreading Victor and that's pretty much it. The reason being is the comment to 2birds about "no town thinks they have the game figured out by page 4" (or whatever). Everybody else is pretty NULL.

VOTE: 2Birds

[Jackel98]

@Juls: My post was in response to bird's 43, right above mine.

I still feel 2birds I my strongest scumread, but I'm looking into the other the rest of your as well. I have a weird gut scumread on massive, currently, and want to know why.