Mafiascum.net

I did not say that. Do not continue to misrep my position.

At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.

In post 148, goodmorning wrote:

In post 136, drealmerz7 wrote:goodmorning, your tag says "effort is not indicative of alignment" - is that meant to be in reference to yourself, or a general statement?

Generally speaking. It should probably say "not necessarily indicative" but that kind of wishy-washy language undermines the point.
Why?

Hmmm, I don't find that to be wishy-washy language or to undermine the point of it, I find the complete opposite. To me they mean 2 different things completely. If you mean "not necessarily indicative" then I won't get into a long spiel about why they're different, because I think you can see the nuance, and, that nuance is important I think, is why.

in reference to me going L-2 on staplertowel that early in the game:

I understand why it is "interesting", but, to me, it really is a safe move at that point, and a potentially useful one. If 2 scum in and see there is a wagon at L-2 and both decide to hop on and make the lynch, well, that is super-suspicious of those 2 more than me, imo, and kind of a noob-mistake on their part. It's an okay way to learn in a noob game if it happens, I think. If any more town add to the wagon, that is more on them than it is me at that point. More likely one of the others already on the wagon would jump off, unless they're scum, which can also be a useful read depending how things develop. I also think it is a safe move for me to be viewed as town. No scum would make it L-2 that early in the game at risk of drawing suspicion on themselves, sure, it can be a gambit move, but, it's risky and unecessary at that stage in the game.

In post 150, Accountant wrote:I did not say that. Do not continue to misrep my position.

you didn't say , exactly? when saying something like that quotes are really good, among saying "you're a hypocrite" and then not saying exactly where. I'm getting a bit annoyed at this back and forth with you and really don't see why you persist, I've made my positions clear and I don't have anything to add.

@GM & Jae: Continued spaghetti posting and arguing with each other over semantics isn't helping or convincing anyone of anything and does nothing but strengthen conf bias. Stop, please.

You've already mis-represented me by making assumptions based on very limited facts/evidence (hence the use of the word assumptions) about me

That's not what misrepresentation means. Furthermore, the assumptions were correct. Or do you deny that you are new to this site?

Where am I being hypocritical? Again, I never intended to be, and it is likely you misunderstand or I didn't elaborate enough for you to understand

I'll be looking forward to your explanation, then.

But really, if you're going to start calling someone hypocritical and scum, you should really be somewhere where you can fully explain yourself and what you're talking about and not just mention things you want to talk about in the future, that is like, really scummy, imo.

I can already fully explain myself, I just choose not to because it's irritating trying to quote and refer to other pages on mobile. Stop trying to put your own spin on what I'm saying and pass it off as reality. Nobody is fooled.

In post 151, goodmorning wrote:At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.

That's how I feel about you and Jae.

Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.

you didn't say what, exactly?

I did not claim to know definitively you are scum. But I do strongly suspect you, because you're behaving in a very scummy manner.

In post 155, copper223 wrote:Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.

When did you start to grow suspicious of oncilla?

I seriously can't fucking stand when people play from their phone or whatever device that sucks and then say "sorry I can't play even up to par or how I should be because I'm on a POS playing half-assed instead of being considerate and making quality posts like the other players." it's started become very anti-town, Accountant, distracting from other things that seem more meaningful, like that squabble between jae and GM.

Jae, how can you be so sure how someone should behave based on a limited previous experience with them? That is naive if not scummy.

In post 145, drealmerz7 wrote:@accountant - well, regardless, I'm not scum, so, if you're town, re-assess before you commit to getting back to a PC :þ

@copper - I'm just a little whacky at times and like to have a bit of fun, it is a game after all - I don't want to get on people's nerves at all! That's not the reaction I'm going for!

If I get on anyone's nerves anywhere ever, please point out where/why you find it so and we can hopefully come to understanding. I do poke/prod people at times a bit, but, I think that is part of the nature of the game.

The things I do are also never intended to interfere with discussion, but to enhance it, or to have fun with it and make it a bit fun, because it's a game (and I can have fun and make fun posts as well as be focused on the dire situation of choosing who to lynch) - in fact, I will often merge the two if appropriate and not confusing!

That comment about being amused irked me a bit because it sounded like you were making fun of our attempts to read each other, I also considered that was scum knowing about our alignments and finding it funny how many are tunneling each other for all the wrong reasons but dismissed it.

@Accountant
OMG that guy is misrepping me is the most mistaken scumread I've had myself and read from others when both players are mutually scum-reading each other.

So like me you're tending to both GM and Jae being town?

In post 153, Accountant wrote: I can already fully explain myself, I just choose not to because it's irritating trying to quote and refer to other pages on mobile. Stop trying to put your own spin on what I'm saying and pass it off as reality. Nobody is fooled.

Riiiight, we're done discussing anything then until you can actually fucking discuss something. Your lack of ability to play effectively from the "mobile" is detrimental to the game. PLEASE STOP.

In post 157, Accountant wrote:

In post 155, copper223 wrote:Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.

When did you start to grow suspicious of oncilla?

When I read his post about how out of place my meta read was (after a bunch of you had taken a similar line) and seeing that Jae had had the same impression when Oncilla questioned his entry post as trying to hard to be town.

In post 159, copper223 wrote:

In post 145, drealmerz7 wrote: That comment about being amused irked me a bit because it sounded like you were making fun of our attempts to read each other, I also considered that was scum knowing about our alignments and finding it funny how many are tunneling each other for all the wrong reasons but dismissed it.

Nah, wasn't making fun, and I wouldn't make a comment like that as scum as it'd be a bit of a scum-tell. I can totally see how it could read as scummy, but, nah, just innocently amused.

still getting the hang of the quote system here...

I seriously can't fucking stand when people play from their phone or whatever device that sucks and then say "sorry I can't play even up to par or how I should be because I'm on a POS playing half-assed instead of being considerate and making quality posts like the other players." it's started become very anti-town, Accountant, distracting from other things that seem more meaningful, like that squabble between jae and GM.

This argument is not valid. You argue that I am not making quality posts and using my mobile device as an excuse. This is untrue - every post I make is game-advancing. The only thing that mobile devices stop me from doing are make posts. Despite what your previous experience playing mafia may or may not have taught you, length does not strongly correlate to quality(this is also true in school, the bedroom and many other places).

The second accusation is nonsensical. My posting on a mobile device hardly distracts from the conversation between GM and Jae.

Your lack of ability to play effectively from the "mobile" is detrimental to the game.

Ah - but we still have plenty to discuss that can be done through short, mobile posts. Such as your repeated misrepresentations of what I am trying to say.

So like me you're tending to both GM and Jae being town?

Feels like a TvT.

In post 156, Accountant wrote:

you didn't say what, exactly?

I did not claim to know definitively you are scum. But I do strongly suspect you, because you're behaving in a very scummy manner.

Well when you say "I'll explain why you're scum" that is quite definitive and doesn't mean "I'll explain why I think you're scum" - it's harder language than that, you realize?

anyway, you've hit me so many times as scummy and that stuff between jae and GM seems silly too (not as silly as this, mind you), soo, yep, now I figure it is best to chill on it and allow others to make their assessments on us, I mean, feel free to do whatever you were going to do but, I'm pretty much done with this with you unless you have any questions for me that are necessary to clear up.

Well when you say "I'll explain why you're scum" that is quite definitive and doesn't mean "I'll explain why I think you're scum" - it's harder language than that, you realize?

There's no difference in my mind.

anyway, you've hit me so many times as scummy and that stuff between jae and GM seems silly too (not as silly as this, mind you), soo, yep, now I figure it is best to chill on it and allow others to make their assessments on us, I mean, feel free to do whatever you were going to do but, I'm pretty much done with this with you unless you have any questions for me that are necessary to clear up.

I see.

In post 151, goodmorning wrote:At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.

I have to learn to disengage sooner/better, it's always an issue for me.

drealmer is pinging me a bit as trying to appease. With the favorable comment on the vote and all.

I kinda wanna continue to grill GM outta spite because Accountant told me to stop, lol. My concerns were all addressed, though. I'm still half convinced just based off my luck that the IC slot is scum. Every newbie I've been in for D1 has had a scum IC. That's 4/5 newbies (the 5th I specifically replaced in after the town IC died). That's...not really an argument, though. Has little bearing on this game, gambler's fallacy, and so on.

Accountant trying to put a stop to the noise is pro-town I think, as I can see scum!Accountant letting it pass without telling us to stop since it clutters up the thread. I still think it was early to try to call a stop to it since I was going to disengage anyway... but that's more my personality coming through than anything since I hate being told to do what I was already about to do.

UNVOTE:

I'll reread the thread after getting some sleep. I disagree that it was some kind of obvious joke rather than trying to handwave potential scummy behaviour, but that's likely gonna be an agree to disagree point.

In post 168, JaeReed wrote:drealmer is pinging me a bit as trying to appease.

funny, I just went a-pees

In post 152, drealmerz7 wrote:

In post 148, goodmorning wrote:

In post 136, drealmerz7 wrote:goodmorning, your tag says "effort is not indicative of alignment" - is that meant to be in reference to yourself, or a general statement?

Generally speaking. It should probably say "not necessarily indicative" but that kind of wishy-washy language undermines the point.
Why?

Hmmm, I don't find that to be wishy-washy language or to undermine the point of it, I find the complete opposite. To me they mean 2 different things completely. If you mean "not necessarily indicative" then I won't get into a long spiel about why they're different, because I think you can see the nuance, and, that nuance is important I think, is why.

I see.

in reference to me going L-2 on staplertowel that early in the game:

I understand why it is "interesting", but, to me, it really is a safe move at that point, and a potentially useful one. If 2 scum in and see there is a wagon at L-2 and both decide to hop on and make the lynch, well, that is super-suspicious of those 2 more than me, imo, and kind of a noob-mistake on their part. It's an okay way to learn in a noob game if it happens, I think. If any more town add to the wagon, that is more on them than it is me at that point. More likely one of the others already on the wagon would jump off, unless they're scum, which can also be a useful read depending how things develop. I also think it is a safe move for me to be viewed as town. No scum would make it L-2 that early in the game at risk of drawing suspicion on themselves, sure, it can be a gambit move, but, it's risky and unecessary at that stage in the game.

In post 150, Accountant wrote:I did not say that. Do not continue to misrep my position.

you didn't say

what

, exactly? when saying something like that quotes are really good, among saying "you're a hypocrite" and then not saying exactly where. I'm getting a bit annoyed at this back and forth with you and really don't see why you persist, I've made my positions clear and I don't have anything to add.

All of which is WIFOM. Also: even in Newbie games, I've never seen an RVS quickhammer by Scum. And every vote takes equal weight with me.

In post 154, Accountant wrote:

In post 151, goodmorning wrote:At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.

That's how I feel about you and Jae.

I feel like we're getting to the bottom of our issues with each other at this point. You and dreal just keep accusing each other of misrepping.

In post 168, JaeReed wrote:I kinda wanna continue to grill GM outta spite because Accountant told me to stop, lol. My concerns were all addressed, though. I'm still half convinced just based off my luck that the IC slot is scum. Every newbie I've been in for D1 has had a scum IC. That's 4/5 newbies (the 5th I specifically replaced in after the town IC died). That's...not really an argument, though. Has little bearing on this game, gambler's fallacy, and so on.

Things are making a lot more sense now.

Accountant trying to put a stop to the noise is pro-town I think, as I can see scum!Accountant letting it pass without telling us to stop since it clutters up the thread. I still think it was early to try to call a stop to it since I was going to disengage anyway... but that's more my personality coming through than anything since I hate being told to do what I was already about to do.

Except, as I mentioned earlier this post, we were accomplishing some resolution. Accountant keeps making noise at dreal about how he's going to post a case when he gets to the computer, but in the meantime continues to bait dreal with non-issues.

Accountant trying to put a stop to productive noise while continuing with unproductive noise is not pro-Town at all.

I disagree that it was some kind of obvious joke rather than trying to handwave potential scummy behaviour, but that's likely gonna be an agree to disagree point.

Worrying about looking Town is a Newb tell, not a scumtell. But we can certainly agree to disagree.

Sorry all, my internet has been unstable recently and won't be good for a while. I'd rather not be a detriment to this game, so .

Not to question inefficiency, but why did it take this long to replace Kuroshira? Shouldn't he have been booted the moment the game started?

In this case, Kuroshira replaced an unconfirmed slot. Two others confirmed, starting the game. In games that start before 100% confirmations, usually you give the unconfirmed 24 hours or so to confirm. Because this is a weekend you might be inclined to give them longer; many people are busy on weekends, and some mods even go so far as to count weekends as a single day for prod purposes.