Mafiascum.net

In post 138, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I generally agree that his posts aren't scummy, and that his opening was either a legitimate reaction test or him feigning a reaction test, but I don't know if I see why the way he did it is more likely the former than the latter. can you walk me through it in more depth?

I'm not a huge fan of the "I don't think his posts are scummy" followed by this "let's dissect this townread because I think it should be null" -- especially since it's the main thing you reached out to me about; the only reason that should be your highest priority here is if my worldview on syr really clashed with yours (it doesn't), or if it were an attempt to read (it doesn't seem to be)

Whereas I think at least one head of TOB does think Syr is scum and is challenging me because of that

In post 145, borkjerfkin wrote:the way he reached out to me specifically as if i was in danger of dissecting the issue too much before people talked about it fully. I don't think scum would have cared if i did that.

I don't feel that 71 feels like a backpedal because people didn't like him jumping on the wagon, it feels like an earnest mindset.

I don't know how to better explain it. A lot of people seem to want to shoot down this townread without doing anything other than replace it with nothing substantial.

I don't agree with this. I think he'd be more than aware that he couldn't just make up a "reaction test" without following through and actually treating it like one.

besides that, it isn't that I just want to shoot down your read for no reason; I just don't have the same sense you do at this point in the game and am hoping to 1. refine my read and make it easier for me to come to the same conclusion as you later if he is town, 2. try to interact with you to hopefully firm up my read on you some.

In post 148, borkjerfkin wrote:

In post 132, Seiko x Naomi wrote:second, Charl is town. I don't think 87 comes from scum, and beyond that I'm fine with his posts in general. I pretty obviously disagree with notty's read here; ideally I'd let him handle it himself, but if he continues not to be here poke me again and I can talk more about it.

I think you should talk more about it; 87 is, by his own admission, not a legitimate claim. Why is this a slam dunk town post for you?

I think notty, no offense, has a stick up his ass about people lying when they shouldn't be or, generalized, doing things that he perceives as anti-town or bad play that they shouldn't do. he's absolutely right about a lot of things (spam posting being a huge issue for him), but he's wrong about the issue here (that lying during a mass claim is always a bad thing).

I'm pretty sure he realizes that his original point was weak in terms of scum reading Charl, but I didn't really see any reason to get in the way of it when it could generate pressure/discussion (which is something Charl himself pointed out).

anyway, about 87, it read to me as a very tongue-in-cheek way of saying "all of you people who take these claims at face value are dumb", which is a thought process that 1. strikes me as somewhat more unlikely from scum, but also 2. even if he thought along those lines as scum I don't think he'd be likely to express it by fake claiming; it'd have been a lot easier to just say as much and complain hoping to seek town cred from it.

In post 146, borkjerfkin wrote:

In post 143, Aj The Epic wrote:

Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment

Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?

You are most certainly not commenting on anything but the lowest hanging "bad theory" fruit

But I probably will be until the 16th. I'm just trying to participate a bit to not be completely gone.

In post 151, Seiko x Naomi wrote:2. try to interact with you to hopefully firm up my read on you some.

Ok.
I'm really not hard to read despite you having that one bad experience.
Unless you're AngryPidgeon; dude fucking sucks at reading me.

In post 151, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I don't agree with this. I think he'd be more than aware that he couldn't just make up a "reaction test" without following through and actually treating it like one.

I don't think scum faking a reaction test would have been savvy enough to realize that I was in the process of ruining it and get indignant about it.

If you think I'm not giving scum!syr enough credit then so be it. I find that I'm not really interested in defending this read to the death right now; a lot of it is a gutshot and I have nothing other than what I have presented.

I was actually really surprised in forest fire that you were so jaded by tales of you re: my alignment.
I think I said as much at the time.

I literally was completely certain you were town, the entire game, even after I died, to the point where even when I got weirded out on Nacho I'd go back and look at your posts and go "OK bork was town" and calm down. so, forgive me. <_>

I am pretty OK with your posts so far in this game, but I'm nowhere near sure about it at this point. I do think if you're town I'll be able to figure it out with some amount of confidence eventually.

In post 154, borkjerfkin wrote:I don't think scum faking a reaction test would have been savvy enough to realize that I was in the process of ruining it and get indignant about it.

Eh maybe I'm confbiasing with this I'm not even sure I believe that.

I have a gut read based on what I perceive to be a real thought process.

do you disagree with what I wrote in the last paragraph of 151?

I'm not sure I really understand it.

Nevermind, reread it and I think I do.

This is less about the read (I think he's town) and more about figuring out where your head is. Ok.

UNVOTE: this seems like a decent spot to start to reevaluate.

I think town-him would be likely to see people claiming, think "these claims are stupid", and make up a role and fake claim it to make some fun out of the situation. I think scum-him seeing people claiming and hoping to go for a "these claims are stupid" angle likely just complains about it it straight up, tries to seek town cred discouraging people from claiming, etc, especially given he's a newer player.

it kinda is gut to some extent, but it is what it is.

I'm ok with that.

In post 158, Seiko x Naomi wrote:do you disagree with what I wrote in the last paragraph of 151?

Eh rereading it I still kinda think your level of certainty is off; it's a really, really minor point to me.

Like you don't take some yahoo going "I'm a bulletproof miller vig" as a joke and call them town.

I don't see how this is not a variant of that.

In post 132, Seiko x Naomi wrote:first things first, I don't think bork is scum. I could easily be wrong on this since I have misread him very badly in the past, but in general I think the most apparent tell with him is that when he's scum a lot of his posts and reads are just really flat and going-through-the-motions and I don't see that here (the read on Syr falls in pretty direct contrast to it). I also think that most of the more subtle things he's posting about are pretty reasonable, i.e. 120 about Dunn. I will likely revisit this if I have reason to question it later.

I keep coming back to this and I really wish I had something more contemporary to compare to than viscon: crossroads with a me-town you-scum arrangement re: how scum you would open against me.

Wish we didn't have 3 slots burning a hole in the game.

TOB is the only read I really wanna take to the bank right now.

In post 132, Seiko x Naomi wrote:TOB's push on Syr is terrible, but I am not sure that it is terrible in a scummy way. I want an explanation for their town read on OA, though.

I don't have any town read on Dunn; I don't have any issues with the bulk of his push on us (save potentially the post bork pointed out), but it's nowhere near unfakeable.

AJ's 128 is really underwhelming and since notty seems to be gone/not have a vote down I'm going ahead and voting here.

Yeah ultimately I think this is all just kind of a bunch of "hey look I'm scumhunting" when actually it's not saying anything useful or attempting to get past the fact that it doesn't draw any salient conclusions.

VOTE: Seiko x Naomi

...

I honestly don't know what you want me to say, besides the fact that I swear it'll be obvious that I'm town here like it usually is if you give me enough time to actually get into the game. that was me giving a very tl;dr version of where I was at with the game after being in observation mode for the first 6 pages; do you want me to elaborate more on any of those reads, or... ?

No.

I swear it'll be obvious that I'm town here like it usually is if you give me enough time to actually get into the game.

This is what I want. Do that. Or have NS do it.

OK, but I'm holding you to that.

whatever you do, please just don't turn this into another forest fire game where I felt like I was bleeding my soul into the game and people still didn't town read me because they were getting hung up on random crap that I had done, because I can't handle one of those right now.

((Regardless of what happens in this game, you are a wonderful person and I hold you in the highest regard))

I cannot promise that I won't fuck up -- that's not fair to me -- I can promise that I will do my best not to.

As it currently stands I'm not really seeing any parallels between here and that game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=62186
if anyone cares, I am part of Gold Saucer hydra

Wait, you guys were talking about a june 2015 game this whole time?

I don't play often.