Mafiascum.net

VOTE: shiki

This is kind of gut pings honestly, but looking at her ISO I can also say she's posted some -stuff- but not really anything that seems aimed at forming or advancing a read.

In post 144, HoldenGolden wrote:

In post 137, Umlaut wrote:

In post 122, HoldenGolden wrote:

In post 116, Umlaut wrote:1. That was RVS
2. Showing up and leaving is different from never showing up

But how is number 1 different? For all you know George and Monkey is RVS Madoka.

Then George and Monkey can say that.

@George, @Monkey

Are the Madoka votes for any kind of reason?

As for two:

In post 120, Umlaut wrote:

In post 114, HoldenGolden wrote:Who said it had anything to do with lurking?

I mean when you vote someone with 0 posts a few pages in, I assume it's because they have 0 posts.

Can you not say the same thing for someone who dropped a vote and peaced? Is that not defined as lurking as well? I would even say it is more proper to say Hiraki is lurking than Madoka since Madoka could of just not woke up yet to play?

Yes, I do think it's more accurate to say Hiraki is lurking than Madoka, which is why I think voting him and keeping my vote their is productive since it might produce some kind of actual pressure while voting Madoka is just a null-op.

I'm puzzled on why you assumed that wagon was had logic behind it (lurker wagon) and not a RVS bandwagon considering all that was said was literally the votes.

I might just be assuming people play in the way I think is good play. If I move my vote it means I actually think the new one is better than the old for some reason, so unless someone is just joining the game I'm going to figure their vote is for some kind of reason even if it's not a very strong one.

pedit

oh my god Hoctac

but also yeah, that's true.

So really it boils down to you think town!play is to only move your vote in RVS if the move is more likely to be scum? Why not ask what their reason was then instead of inserting your own (Voting for lurking?)

You wanted to talk about something other than the Mason claim, so here I am. Why didn't you inquire about the reads directly if it violated your expectations of town!play and just inserted your own?

ill say it straight up. i dont believe this mason claim.
i can't even get a read on umlaut and hoctac without putting the claim in close inspection, which wouldn't be in our best interest. but they're the ones bringing it up so let's do it.
they seem to be AT LEAST informed about each others' alignment.
im just figuring out if they're SvS or TvT. TvS might be possible, but convoluted.
i'm thinking that this will sort itself in a future massclaim, but even then it's very dangerous to believe their claim if they've shown that they can lie about their roles.
i have no idea where to proceed from here.

In post 112, Umlaut wrote:Also

why are we wagoning the person who isn't even here?

Lurking is bad but complete absence isn't lurking.

You're right, instead of just asking why, I asked why and made a guess. Are you going somewhere with this?

im sleepy. good night.

In post 153, humaneatingmonkey wrote:ill say it straight up. i dont believe this mason claim.
i can't even get a read on umlaut and hoctac without putting the claim in close inspection, which wouldn't be in our best interest. but they're the ones bringing it up so let's do it.
they seem to be AT LEAST informed about each others' alignment.
im just figuring out if they're SvS or TvT. TvS might be possible, but convoluted.
i'm thinking that this will sort itself in a future massclaim, but even then it's very dangerous to believe their claim if they've shown that they can lie about their roles.
i have no idea where to proceed from here.

This is obviously just going to be a constant distraction until it's settled, so whatever, I'll address it.

I have never, ever fakeclaimed as town and I have gone on record as saying it's pretty much always anti-town to do so. Feel free to through my games and confirm. I'm telling you I'm a mason with Hoctac. So either you think I'm a mason with Hoctac, or you think I'm scum and probably he is too.

Outing us right away was stupid and I kind of hoped I could lie low enough to never confirm or deny it, but here we are.

I think Hiraki is currently a good place for pressure. I do not have any strong reads yet.

Scumpool is Datisi, Hiraki, Madoka.

Why Datisi, Hoctac?

Feels less like her usual vibrant self and the Umlaut vote.

I think that's probably not alignment indicative. It seems to depend on his motivation. During a round of Conspiracy, he was similar in tone. From what I've observed, I think town!Datasi comes alive when he feels he has good insight. That being said, perhaps you may be onto something with the Umlaut vote. What did you not like about it. I presume he was voting Umlaut for the sake of making the wagons even?

In post 160, Hoctac wrote:Feels less like her usual vibrant self and the Umlaut vote.

I don't know Datisi's usual vibrant self, could you elaborate this into something others can agree or disagree with?

In post 51, Hoctac wrote:actually, that's a fair point. It looks natural but questioning it at all is a little tactless.

I'm not voting due to the questioning, I'm voting due to the response.

In post 72, Umlaut wrote:

In post 45, Hiraki wrote:

Vote: humaneatingmonkey

Come back to us, we miss you already.

I miss not explaining.

In post 46, humaneatingmonkey wrote:idk guys earlier i was thinking of bringing it up but then i thought "but then their reaction would probably confirm it and i dont want to confirm it if it wasnt a joke"
so im not resonating

This doesn't sound like a town line of logic and it feels rather forced given the prior posts before it.

In post 95, Hoctac wrote:

In post 91, GeorgeBailey wrote:@Hoctac why are you voting Hiraki?

townpings of varying degrees on everyone but shiki and Hiraki of people who have posted thus far

In post 112, Umlaut wrote:I have like no read on anyone.

Also why are we wagoning the person who isn't even here? Lurking is bad but complete absence isn't lurking.

This is what concerns me. I'm in a similar camp (although I really do SR HEM) but Hoctac's post above gives me worse feelings. You can really get a "town ping" from everyone? Already? You know who's missing from that list? Madoka.

In post 121, Hoctac wrote:I don't like this

VOTE: Datisi

Why is it that both of your pings have been people who have voted/switched votes? Are you just paranoid?

In post 124, Hoctac wrote:I shall play my answer a question with a question card:

What do you think of Datisi's naked vote of trying to wagon Umlaut?

Terrible rationale here.

In post 125, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I'll introduce a third party and interject a question of my own:
Why are you squeamish about Datisi's naked vote and not mine? Why are you squeamish about wagons forming on people you have no reads on?

Unless you have a read on Umlaut?

Wow, maybe I am wrong.

In post 142, shiki wrote:

In post 137, Umlaut wrote:Yes, I do think it's more accurate to say Hiraki is lurking than Madoka, which is why I think voting him and keeping my vote their is productive since it might produce some kind of actual pressure while voting Madoka is just a null-op.

i do not think hiraki's lurking is alignment indicative in the same way that i do not think hoctac's claiming masons is alignment indicative. hiraki is likely treating his vote as an egopost and waiting for the game to develop, which is in line with his play as either alignment.

thank you

Madoka, how do you read Hiraki?

In post 163, Hiraki wrote:This doesn't sound like a town line of logic and it feels rather forced given the prior posts before it.

What sounds like town line of logic here? Why did it feel forced?

In post 163, Hiraki wrote:You can really get a "town ping" from everyone? Already?

Good point.

Hoctac, can you explain what town pings did you get from everybody else?

In post 113, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Even wagons look nice

In post 115, humaneatingmonkey wrote:VOTE: Umlaut

In post 117, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Let's make this wagon even

In post 118, Datisi wrote:VOTE: umlaut

okay, so this was why i voted for umalut, to kake the wagons ~even~ because lol why not, coupled with the fact that in a few posts prior he said he doesn't have a read on anyone, which i found kinda odd because even though i definitely don't have reads right now, saying you don't have a single read is odd. also at the time i thought the mason claim is just a meme, because claming mason in your first post is a meme here.

then hoctac kept pushing me for it and i thought it was just a meme because if you're suspicious of someone pushing you to claim, why oh why would you claim immediately? plus i know hoctac is a joker so

but umlaut keeping at it is a different story i guess so UNVOTE:

hoctac, in 158 you say i'm not feeling like my vibrant self, but in 95 you said you got townpings from me, so, what's up?

VOTE: shiki i can get behind this right now
shiki, madoka, any reads or feels so far?

Hiraki, what do you think about the mason claim?

In post 164, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Madoka, how do you read Hiraki?

I have a slight town impression of him from his last post, but when I say slight, I mean slight. What I liked was him reconsidering you based on the post he quoted of yours asking why your vote wasn't scummy but Datisi's was. I also have a town impression of that post. It indicates that you are playing objectively and are not so much concerned with how you are perceived. If that is what Hiraki is picking up on, then I think it's a positive indicator of his alignment. Regarding his naked vote and leaving, I don't think that is alignment indicative. I think a fair amount of pressure is good on Hiraki, though, because lurking is disadvantageous to the town.

In post 167, Datisi wrote:madoka, any reads or feels so far?

♡ I have a slight town impression of Hiraki based on the reasoning above.
♡ I have a town impression of HEM based on the reasoning above.
♡ I am currently scum reading you for this last post of yours. In particular, asking me about my reads a few posts after I stated that I did not have any reads (157) suggests to me that you are not solving me. I also think your justification for you Umlaut vote is overdefensive.
♡ I have a slight associative town impression of Hoctac with regard to his relation to you. If you are scum, then I think your overdefensiveness is probably indicative of town Hoctac.

In post 169, Madoka wrote:♡ I am currently scum reading you for this last post of yours. In particular, asking me about my reads a few posts after I stated that I did not have any reads (157) suggests to me that you are not solving me. I also think your justification for you Umlaut vote is overdefensive.

except not really, you stated you didn't have reads. which, while reasonable at this stage of the game, doesn't help in reading you or anyone else.

hoctac's suspicion of me was arising from (i guess) his misunderstanding of my umlaut vote. i'm going to explain myself.

Umlaut, could you confirm if you are indeed Masons? I'd rather not waste mental energy attempting to sort you if you are. And being deceptive and having us think you are when you are not, causes confusion and is unfair to your allies if you're town.

I'd like to add: If one of you flips and you aren't masons, I promise that I will lynch the other no matter what. Any backtracks now will not be AI, but backtracks later I will read as scum. This is your last chance to come clean.

In post 170, Datisi wrote:

In post 169, Madoka wrote:♡ I am currently scum reading you for this last post of yours. In particular, asking me about my reads a few posts after I stated that I did not have any reads (157) suggests to me that you are not solving me. I also think your justification for you Umlaut vote is overdefensive.

except not really, you stated you didn't have

strong

reads. which, while reasonable at this stage of the game, doesn't help in reading you or anyone else.

hoctac's suspicion of me was arising from (i guess) his misunderstanding of my umlaut vote. i'm going to explain myself.

I do not think there is anything wrong with explaining yourself. It is how exhaustively you did that I am reading as over defensiveness. Stating that you were just making the wagons even would have been sufficient. I think your point about me asking for strong reads properly annuls my other point.

In post 167, Datisi wrote:shiki, madoka, any reads or feels so far?

beyond what i've already stated, i kinda feel like madoka may have asked umlaut to scumread me because she didn't want to do so herself this game. or possibly that hoctac saw that madoka posted so he suggested to umlaut that he vote me? more likely the latter i guess because madoka's answer to this question made a lot of sense to me.

i do not believe that hoctac and umlaut are masons. i do not see why umlaut would be openly frustrated with hoctac in the main thread if they shared a mason pt. when i was masons with menalque and i claimed, menalque was frustrated but he expressed that to me. this feels more like acting. it does seem like they are in contact with eachother though and this would be a weird thing for them to do as mafia partners so i would guess that they are neighbours.

In post 162, Umlaut wrote:I don't know Datisi's usual vibrant self, could you elaborate this into something others can agree or disagree with?

why ask this outside of the mason pt (if it exists)? i feel like the answer is always going to rely on hoctac's familiarity with datisi, and since you are saying you are unfamiliar with datisi and your first instinct isn't to familiarize yourself with his meta, what benefit do you see this having?