Thank you.
In my opinion, the observation is accurate. However, I don't think it necessarily means she is a mafioso, just an egotistical person. shellyc, describing you as egotistical is not meant as an insult, but just a description.In post 149, ItalianoVD wrote:I’m not liking shelly’s responses to Frederick. Seems unnecessarily hostile and defensive. Does this qualify as a good enough read?
She's typing words. She did that during your scum game too I bet. Is she scum for that? Obviously not. This is a massively overblown hyperbole, but still the same sort of logic you've been using against her.In post 147, ItalianoVD wrote:This was my point. In the only game she played she was scum and she had tells. She uses those same tells in this game, which is her second game. You expect me to just say... “oh she’s probably town this game, even though she is doing the same thing and using the same tells she did as scum?” I’m not metareading per se because you can only meta read with more games. I only have one game to go by. Am I crazy? Does anyone else understand what I’m saying?
I remember when I used to be that way too and probably still am.In post 153, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Shelly seems unnecessarily hostile in general, I'd say. Some people have that as a behavioral trait, scum or town, as Frederick says. I used to be one of them, and I'm not just talking about Mafia. (I've managed to mostly dial that back.)
...
If I take scum play to mean any play that came from scum, I think my definitions overlap but it is hard to define a phrase I don't even remember using. I actually don't use the phrase "anti-town play" either. Typically, if I want to say I think someone is a mafioso for something, I would usually state the action and say that I think the action suggests the person is very likely to be a mafioso.In post 153, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:...
For Frederick: I was asking in the most general sense. ANY play that comes across as scum play versus ANY play that comes off as town that isn't working in town's favor. I want a really high level overview of where your line is drawn, even if it's a thin and insubstantial line.
I don't think I have ever placed any play style into either of those categories, even mentally. I really doubt whole play styles can be considered scum though. What would that even mean? For a play style to be considered anti-town, how do you even draw a line? A play style would consist of actions and if some are anti-town while others are not, which category are you going to place it in? Personally, when dealing with play styles just like personalities, I don't place them in categories. Instead, I just name it after the user or person, like I would call your play style MUSHSHAGANA's play style instead of placing it into an anti-town, scum, or whatever category and strip the playstyle of all nuance that have observable changes over time.In post 156, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:I'm not quoting you, I'm asking about play styles that connect to "scum" and "anti-town townie" as classes of player, and what separates those play styles for you.
It is quite possible you don't even recognize these things as meaningful to distinguish between, which I did also ask about! In which case I'd find it useful to get the "I don't think there's a meaningful distinction" answer too.
I don't consider those categories to be meaningful either.In post 158, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:So you don't consider that to be a meaningful distinction, then?
Honestly, the difference is all motivation. If it hinders the town it's anti-town, no matter what their alignment is. If it's something scum is more likely to do in a certain situation, it's scum play/scummy.In post 160, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Hmm.
Fair enough.
I wonder if MagikHorse might have any thoughts on the same subject, then? Scum play versus anti-town townie play, the line between, where it is drawn? Also curious on Frogsterking's thoughts here. And if others want to throw their piece into the hat, I'll read those too, but I have a particular list of people whose thoughts on the matter are particularly interesting to me. (It's interesting that they're all the SEs, but that's the point, right? Learning.)
I was telling him that there was no need to teach or advise me how to defend myself.In post 148, ItalianoVD wrote:Uhh, that’s actually the basis of this game.
So you are thinking I play aggressive / hostile? Is that NAI to you? But you're right, I should be more open-minded in order to look at all the possibilities. That is a weakness of mine.In post 153, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Shelly seems unnecessarily hostile in general, I'd say. Some people have that as a behavioral trait, scum or town, as Frederick says. I used to be one of them, and I'm not just talking about Mafia. (I've managed to mostly dial that back.)
I'd also say that you're getting too hung up on the similarities and not looking for any differences is another reason I dislike your hyper-focused pushes. And for the record: if you see no differences at all, that means you're just stuck on this read and not actually thinking about it. Different game, different time, different players all mean different dynamics and thus different behavior.
Pick at the differences and let them aid your conclusion, /then/ you're actually scumhunting. (Similarities are also useful, but you can't focus all on one and not at all on the other and still get useful information.)
I thought and think that the behaviour is scummy, but probably not-alignment indicative. I don't think thinking your behaviour is scummy constitutes as a scumread since I don't think you are mafia for your behaviour.In post 166, shellyc wrote:Ok, I realise my reactions to Frederick were overblown. He came in and listed me as scumread. I was curious why, and then he said that I was overly egoistical and self focused. I was surprised at that and posted in a different tone to my other posts.
MagikHorse seems to be the only person that townreads me in this thread. That's a little unusual.
Also Frederick, you scumread me at first, then suddenly said I was NAI after a few posts.
In post 171, Frogsterking wrote:I don't think that solo winning a scum game would make me more likely to be self-reflective in the next game...*
In post 160, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Hmm.
Fair enough.
I wonder if MagikHorse might have any thoughts on the same subject, then? Scum play versus anti-town townie play, the line between, where it is drawn? Also curious on Frogsterking's thoughts here. And if others want to throw their piece into the hat, I'll read those too, but I have a particular list of people whose thoughts on the matter are particularly interesting to me. (It's interesting that they're all the SEs, but that's the point, right? Learning.)
I do think about these things. I conceptualize it as a status dynamic where players that are higher in status within that particular game are viewed as more pro town and players that are lower in status are viewed as anti town, and there is an unspoken group consensus of who is higher/lower in status in addition to the individual beliefs which might differ substantially.In post 156, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:I'm not quoting you, I'm asking about play styles that connect to "scum" and "anti-town townie" as classes of player, and what separates those play styles for you.
It is quite possible you don't even recognize these things as meaningful to distinguish between, which I did also ask about! In which case I'd find it useful to get the "I don't think there's a meaningful distinction" answer too.