Mini 615: The Eclipse- Game!

[icemanE]

Xyzzy's entire plan revolves around sharing those scum lists. Its based on the idea that if someone gets recruited their suspicions will be greatly different from their previous scumlists.

Attacking someone for misrepresenting someones argument while you don't have a clear idea of what the argument is, is a logical fallacy.

I think we need clarification from X himself on this issue before we can solidify who is right and wrong in this situation.

I see what you're saying and it's a possibility. However, the way I read his post was that he thought we should decide who we think is scummy and if opinions change greatly as days go by, it's notable and potentially a scumtell.

As I said, I think X needs a chance to clarify and defend his position.

[icemanE]

@ Darox about Bogre:

This is a direct quote of Bogre's post about hammering. This is the full post, for context.

@ Bogre -

If you agree, why didn't you move your vote?

He's -1, I don't want to hammer him quite yet as the day's only a few pages in, but I am planning on doing so.

However, I guess there are no real power roles we have to worry about quicklynching, so I suppose hammering now would be okay.

He says he doesn't want to hammer him but is planning on it. Then he says it would be OK to hammer. But he doesn't. I didn't take anything out of context.

[armlx]

As I said, I think X needs a chance to clarify and defend his position.

Again, coming from the guy who attempted a hammer.

[icemanE]

As I said, I think X needs a chance to clarify and defend his position.

Again, coming from the guy who attempted a hammer.

Yup, and the fact that the hammer didn't go through has given me time to rethink my original position - I'm lucky, for that. I've also explained it before, and you're taking that piece of the quote totally out of context - standing alone next to your comment it looks like I'm saying I want to give him a chance to clarify because I think he's suspicious - within the full post is clearly means there is an open argument which can't be resolved without X's participation. Strawmanning -

It usually involves subtle changes to the given facts of the matter, or minor changes to wording that lead to semantic differences in what is said.

Please stop doing that.

[Darox]

He didn't change any facts.

He stated you tried to hammer, which you did.

Whether it succeeded or not does not change the fact you tried to hammer.

He's -1,

I don't want to hammer him quite yet as

the day's only a few pages in

, but I am planning on doing so.

However, I guess there are no real power roles we have to worry about quicklynching, so I suppose hammering now would be okay.

And finally, no, we don't need Xyzzy to clarify because it is obvious he meant for the scum lists to be shared. Without sharing the lists, the plan doesn't do anything.

But today, we have the benefit that the recruitees do't know that they're going to be scum yet - a good strategy might be to have each player decide on an order of scumminess today - since the scum has one recruit, there'll be almost nothing to go on today, but tomorrow and beyond we can use the information about who no longer supports what to our advantage much more than in regular games.

The only way you can 'use the information' is if you are given it. You won't use your own scummy list to determine if you have potentially been recruited, because you know already and you are not going to call yourself out on it.

The point of it is that you know other peoples scum lists and whether they deviate drastically from them.

[icemanE]

He didn't change any facts.

He stated you tried to hammer, which you did.

Whether it succeeded or not does not change the fact you tried to hammer.

I guess you didn't read my post in full.

Anyways, I don't see a huge turnover happening today resulting in an armlx lynch, so I think it's worth the 1 in 8 to try X. If what Darox says is true, I suppose it was a scummy plan.

unvote - vote: Xyzzy

[icemanE]

Personally I sort of hope he's not the DK - this was a pretty boring game if he is.

[icemanE]

@ Darox about Bogre again - I guess you didn't read either my post or Bogre's post in full AGAIN.

[Darox]

He said he supposed it was right.

He didn't actually do it.

Armlx didn't change any facts, regardless of whether you had a change of heart or not.

I notice you took the easy path again.

Iceman = No# 1 suspect.

[armlx]

I notice you took the easy path again.

Agree. Unfortunately, this makes me suspect Xyzzy was a townie.

[icemanE]

I notice you took the easy path again.

Agree. Unfortunately, this makes me suspect Xyzzy was a townie.

Why?

[armlx]

I notice you took the easy path again.

Agree. Unfortunately, this makes me suspect Xyzzy was a townie.

Why?

Your waffling the whole time he was on L-1 makes me feel you are scum debating whether they can get away with a hammer.

[icemanE]

Your waffling the whole time he was on L-1 makes me feel you are scum debating whether they can get away with a hammer.

I guess we'll have to see what he flips. It could go either way - whether town or scum, we won't be doing any harm, that's what I figured and that's why I hammered. We'll have a smaller pool and a better chance of hitting scum tomorrow, if X isn't the DK. So we'll have to see what happens.

[Bogre]

I strongly dislike Bogre's vote. He declined to hammer, but once the option is open for him to vote without actually placing the hammer, he jumps right in on the b/w.

Valid, but remember that xxyzzy being lynched is the the goal. Whether its me or someone else who hammers him isn't relevant. It was day three or four when we could have hammered him, and letting this day proceed a bit further at that point was necessary, I felt.

Your continued defense of xxyyzzy is noted.

[Jaguar]

As per VA/LA, to busy/tired and gone tomorrow. Will be back Wednesday. Sorry.

[windkirby]

I still think IcemanE has been acting the most suspicious (though, unfortunately, this isn't saying much since the game is only a few pages long), but I will switch to xyzzy if it comes to it.

mod, can we get a vote count?

[armlx]

I still think IcemanE has been acting the most suspicious (though, unfortunately, this isn't saying much since the game is only a few pages long), but I will switch to xyzzy if it comes to it.

mod, can we get a vote count?

Actually, you should as

Can we get a lynch scene?

. Bogre was 4, iceman was 5.

[Norinel]

Vote Count

xyzzy - 5 (armlx, Awesome Pants, Darox, Bogre, icemanE)
windkirby - 1 (xyzzy)
icemanE - 1 (windkirby)

Not voting (1) - Jaguar

5 to lynch

I apologize for the delay; was no access for the last few days. xyzzy was the

Hunter

. DK, get a choice to me within 48 hours; (And xyzzy, if you want to use the kill now, feel free) I'll check later tonight if anyone needs prodding.

[Norinel]

Day 2! Everyone's alive, so one more person has been recruited. 7 alive makes 4 to lynch. Deadline 7/16.

[armlx]

Vote Iceman

What do you have to say for yourself here?

[icemanE]

What do you have to say for yourself here?

What do you have to say for yourself? Your vote was on X too, the 5 of us were wrong. X was the scummiest player yesterday and as a result was lynched. Luckily, he didn't use his shot, so we have another hunter out there.

We now have a 3 in 7 chance of getting a cultist or the DK. However, the sketchy thing is that if this were a normal game, we'd be in lylo. We need to nail a bad guy this go around if we want any chance at the hunter hitting the right target. I'm gonna do a full reread of this short game, and I think no one should vote until everyone has participated a fair amount. It only take 4 votes, so with 1 vote on the wrong person, the three scum can pile on quickly, and then we're screwed. Even putting one vote on someone is risking their lynch at this stage in the game.

[Jaguar]

Just about everyone in this small game would have voted for X. I also indicated that I would vote for him. So we're not any further ahead. In fact, we now have another recruit, so one Recruiter, two recruits and 4 town.

I'll be rereading the thread in the next day or two, work has just been hell and I've been overtired and short of time.

[Darox]

Your waffling the whole time he was on L-1 makes me feel you are scum debating whether they can get away with a hammer.

I guess we'll have to see what he flips.

It could go either way - whether town or scum, we won't be doing any harm

, that's what I figured and that's why I hammered. We'll have a smaller pool and a better chance of hitting scum tomorrow, if X isn't the DK. So we'll have to see what happens.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Every day we mislynch, it adds a further cultist to the endgame pool, and makes it that much harder for the town to successfully hit the DK with the bullet, even allowing for cultists lynching each other.

The only way we can make up for the mislynch is if the DK hits the hunter next night and we lynch cultists today and tommorow, which is an unlikely scenario.

My feelings toward Iceman being scum would have been much stronger if Xyzzy fliped cultist, but his actions are still highly scummy.

Vote: icemanE

[windkirby]

I'm starting to become suspicious of how much Darox disregards the town's capability of lynching the DK.

FoS: Darox

and

vote: IcemanE

. Even though if Darox is scum, there's a fair chance IcemanE isn't, (as they've been enemies throughout the game,) I still feel as though putting IcemanE one vote away from getting lynched may reveal something interesting.

[windkirby]

Actually, that was a dumb move.

unvote, vote: Darox

I'd rather speculate on the IcemanE wagon until it's lynch time.