The game of the year: town won!

[TeChNoWC]

The biggest pushers for it seemed to be Amrun and kondi, but that doesn't mean they should be read as the scummiest. Random voters are just as bad if not worse ('don't want to get flak and are trying to lurk, so that the focus stays on those pushing for it'). Luffy you yourself had your own sly means of beefing up the wagon, and you even admitted to wagon jumping for the sake of getting a lynch, plus no indication from what I can see that you thought he was scum, only that he lynched moneybags.

@Trollie: yep, that seriously happened!

Next time, quote me in context. Matt P clearly either lied, or changed his mind in an instant.

[Staeg]

Why would we EVER PL red at this point? Yes, his attitude vs kondi was annoying, but he knocked it off and that actually made me not hate this game anymore - I might read the first 40 pages of the game.

By the by, I'd also be up for a YYR wagon.

P-edit: yes, the most active pushers are most likely to be town.

[TeChNoWC]

Other than your hammer of T-Bone and your defence of Spyrex (though you explained yourself pretty well) I had town reads on you Staeg

but:

vote: T-bone

He was meh-town until the emotion-splosion and that hammer was just horrendous. Therefore, I'm making another one.

I had you in my neutral pool because your hammer was so off par and unexplained. How is an 'emotion-splosion' a scumtell? Town are likely to react to being called scum because they know they aren't and are being misrepresented, particularly the flak T-Bone was receiving, its no surprise.

Please explain further.

[TeChNoWC]

Oh cool. I'll be hiding in a corner from now on. Right down to your left if you need me. Which everyone should prob forget about me. Like, forget I'm playing for the next few game days.

Not sure whether to read this as a towntell, or scum feeling guilty + WIFOM. I'm presuming the latter.

[Staeg]

There are four levels of being annoyed/mad: the meeeh level, done/faked by scum and town equally, the fuck you level, most commonly done by town but also faked, the NO FUCK YOU level, usually faked by scum and the NO FUCK YOUR MOTHER, DIE IN A FIRE WHILE BEING MOLESTED BY A TREE, which is preeetty hard to fake. I'd put what Tbone did on 3. The thing is, he did it without any provocation and with rhetoric instead of caps. And it was directed at amrun, not his entire wagon, so it's not exactly due to the to-be-lynching.

Oh also also, while I do appreciate you helping to get luffy lynched, you're in horrible confirmation bias territory now.

[TeChNoWC]

There are four levels of being annoyed/mad: the meeeh level, done/faked by scum and town equally, the fuck you level, most commonly done by town but also faked, the NO FUCK YOU level, usually faked by scum and the NO FUCK YOUR MOTHER, DIE IN A FIRE WHILE BEING MOLESTED BY A TREE, which is preeetty hard to fake. I'd put what Tbone did on 3. The thing is, he did it without any provocation and with rhetoric instead of caps. And it was directed at amrun, not his entire wagon, so it's not exactly due to the to-be-lynching.

Oh also also, while I do appreciate you helping to get luffy lynched, you're in horrible confirmation bias territory now.

I realise, but I see no other way around it, and if town keep pussy footing around we will quickly lose. I don't care if I get lynched for being wrong, or NKd for being mouthy, or whatever - not even a consideration. If one town is willing to go out on a limb and aggro attack, particularly in this situation, they are more likely to win. And I see lynching from T-Bone's wagon as the best thing town could do right now; correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe I overreacted slightly and lynching the WHOLE wagon was pushing it, I just wanted to emphasize how confident I am in hitting a few scummies if we focus most of our lynches today on the scummies that are were on his wagon. It wasn't the mere fact that it was an illegitimate wagon; that makes me think 'lynch scummies on the wagon', but the way it took pace with little scumhunting just screams 'SCUM BRIGADE! AND NOBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION! FUCK FUCK FUCK LOOK AT ALL THOSE SCUMMY READS I HAVE ON THAT WAGON AND THEY ARE ABOUT TO FUCK SHIT UP TOGETHER!'

I am happy to eat my words if I am wrong though. The potential gain vs risks seems phenomenal to me. And if we don't, there is a strong potential that, if it is a scum machine, it will roll on through these next few mislynches like a bulldozer.

This wagon seems good to me and I want to build it before a scummy one + misinformed voters comes along and outvotes us.

Unvote
Vote: Luffy

[Staeg]

Well, anyway, red is right. Most of the smaller wagons are going to be led by town due to pure numbers.

[TeChNoWC]

Well, anyway, red is right. Most of the smaller wagons are going to be led by town due to pure numbers.

Yep, and it was that comment that kept ringing in my ears when I was thinking fucksticks about the T-Bone wagon. I wouldn't say it's completely true (particularly if town picks its socks up; plus smart scum will have to do a few scumbus lynches or they will die pretty quick), but its a scary thought if we DONT get our shit together. With all the mimes dead though, town should still have the upper hand herein as long as they are proactive and make decisions quickly, so scum cant gather a big wagon together.

[Ellibereth]

check in
will have time late tonight

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Votes still for sale.

[Amrun]

Amrun, theamateur, uberninja, kondi2424, mattp, luffy, Thetrollie, lowman, spyrex, Staeg

T-Bone's lynch patrol.

The next lynch needs to be one of these, before mafia push another mislynch. Chances are there were multiple scum pushing this wagon so our chances of hitting scum is quite good.

Because to be honest, T-Bone's lynch was one of the stupidest I have ever seen, and there was little to no accurate tells on him, just nit-picking, random voting and bandwagoning. I wouldn't be suprised if the majority of those players are scum. Theamateur is probably the only one I have a townread on, and its subtle at best. In fact, I would be happy to lynch half of them today.

Starting with Matt P.

@Robotnick2 no one is policy lynching red today. We have a list of suspects right there, with scumtells pouring out of nearly every one of them.

This post is bad and you should feel bad. The T-Bone wagon was probably MOSTLY town. He did scummy things and then acted like a total jerk, THEN hammered in a scumtastic way. Those things garner votes from town. There could be scum on there, but with 40 players and 10 or whatever to lynch, quicklynches aren't a tell and wagon analysis is a whole different ball park. There isn't necessarily scum on every lynch wagon.

I happen to be voting someone on the wagon, but that's because I find him scummy. This sort of terribad wagon analysis needs to be nipped in the bid. The Moneybags wagon is far more likely to be scumfilled than this one, as that one had literally no basis at all. That and CC. Still, I haven't bothered to look at them yet because when it's only a % to lynch, scum don't HAVE to push mislynches like they normally do.

The wagons will be useful when we have a scumflip or two, but not yet.

[Amrun]

Elmo, vote for Lowman.

[TeChNoWC]

Amrun, theamateur, uberninja, kondi2424, mattp, luffy, Thetrollie, lowman, spyrex, Staeg

T-Bone's lynch patrol.

The next lynch needs to be one of these, before mafia push another mislynch. Chances are there were multiple scum pushing this wagon so our chances of hitting scum is quite good.

Because to be honest, T-Bone's lynch was one of the stupidest I have ever seen, and there was little to no accurate tells on him, just nit-picking, random voting and bandwagoning. I wouldn't be suprised if the majority of those players are scum. Theamateur is probably the only one I have a townread on, and its subtle at best. In fact, I would be happy to lynch half of them today.

Starting with Matt P.

@Robotnick2 no one is policy lynching red today. We have a list of suspects right there, with scumtells pouring out of nearly every one of them.

This post is bad and you should feel bad. The T-Bone wagon was probably MOSTLY town. He did scummy things and then acted like a total jerk, THEN hammered in a scumtastic way. Those things garner votes from town. There could be scum on there, but with 40 players and 10 or whatever to lynch, quicklynches aren't a tell and wagon analysis is a whole different ball park. There isn't necessarily scum on every lynch wagon.

I happen to be voting someone on the wagon, but that's because I find him scummy. This sort of terribad wagon analysis needs to be nipped in the bid. The Moneybags wagon is far more likely to be scumfilled than this one, as that one had literally no basis at all. That and CC. Still, I haven't bothered to look at them yet because when it's only a % to lynch, scum don't HAVE to push mislynches like they normally do.

The wagons will be useful when we have a scumflip or two, but not yet.

The moneybags wagon had excellent reasoning and many people provided scumreads on him; in fact, imaginality started the wagon, and he flipped town. The CC one not as much so, but it had more reasoning than the T-Bone one. All three wagons probably had a mixture of scum, town and misinformed noncarers, but I have a feeling the T-Bone wagon was not only scum motivated and scum pushed, but had more scum than any of the three.

Ok, so MAAYBE I overreacted a little, in that lynching people willy nilly off the wagon is a bad idea, and I recant that idea; however, if wagons start popping up out of nowhere on towntells like happened on T-Bone, I would much rather resort back to that plan and lynch willy nilly from the wagon (hence my vote on CC, that and imaginalities post/reasoning). I still believe lynching from the wagon is our best bet (informed lynching).

You were one of the few people that provided SOME good reasoning for a T-Bone lynch (though I disagreed with it and thought it was quite uneventful reasoning) which gives me mixed reads on you; either it was a scum plot and you're somewhat smarter than some of your scummy brethren, or you genuinely thought T-Bone was scum and a parade of scum fed off your reasoning. From what I saw though, your beef with T-Bone seemed personally motivated and was a policy lynch, and his flip out at you I found understandable considering you two had some pretty heated discussions.

Lowman seems like lurkerish scum from my ISO of him and I wouldn't mind lynching him, but Luffy and Matt have more telling signs. Lowman hasn't posted enough for anything to stand out from the regular lurker/scum/opportunistic voter bandwagoner type persona.
What is your read on Luffy?

[Amrun]

No, lynching off of a wagon of 8 people is just as bad as Rhinox's plan of splitting us into 5 groups of 10s. It forces scumhunting to be manufactured. And in this case, there is ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANATEE THAT SCUM WERE ON THE WAGON, so it's a pointless waste of time. Scum MAY have been on the wagon, but we'll find them otherwise.

You may have been right on Moneybags; I missed the beginning of that wagon, and when I asked if he was suspected and why, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING, so I assumed it was policy.

I absolutely believed T-Bone was scum, and I was pushing him as scum before he decided to attack me personally, which was NOT understandable or acceptable. At that point, I wanted him dead even more, but I thought he was scum.

Luffy seems like he's genuinely trying and I don't understand the case on him. I don't understand the case on MattP either, but that's probably because I keep skimming the walls because my eyes glaze over. It seems more legit than the one on Luffy.

[TeChNoWC]

Vote: Matt P

He needs pressure put on him to respond to my posts, and people to review his.

are you serious?

You said about him quote "very scummy" and you placed a vote on him.

So basically, you are lying.

are you serious?

Lol, I couldn't make sense of your post until I realised I had mixed up my reads on Matt with you. You guys seriously need to change DP's.

My read on Matt that he was vote swinging and indecisive was actually from my iso of matt, but the post in question about uberninja was from you, but I thought it was from Matt.

Long story short, that changes my read on matt somewhat, but I still find him somewhat scummy. Your post however, just baffles me, and my iso of you was much the same as Matt's, though not quite as strong a tell.

Why the quick flip on UN?

Also, PLEASE change dps.

[mykonian]

votecount

luffy (3): spyrex, staeg, TechnoWC
BBmolla (2): theamateur, uberninja
amrun (2): MattP, BBmolla
PeregrineV (1): Hoopla
lowman (1): amrun
RedFF (1): Lowman
PeregrineV (1): trevor
YYR (1): RedFF

[TeChNoWC]

No, lynching off of a wagon of 8 people is just as bad as Rhinox's plan of splitting us into 5 groups of 10s. It forces scumhunting to be manufactured. And in this case, there is ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANATEE THAT SCUM WERE ON THE WAGON, so it's a pointless waste of time. Scum MAY have been on the wagon, but we'll find them otherwise.

You may have been right on Moneybags; I missed the beginning of that wagon, and when I asked if he was suspected and why, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING, so I assumed it was policy.

I absolutely believed T-Bone was scum, and I was pushing him as scum before he decided to attack me personally, which was NOT understandable or acceptable. At that point, I wanted him dead even more, but I thought he was scum.

Luffy seems like he's genuinely trying and I don't understand the case on him. I don't understand the case on MattP either, but that's probably because I keep skimming the walls because my eyes glaze over. It seems more legit than the one on Luffy.

It's not the same as Rhinox's proposal, that was completely and much more inhibiting; this has actual reasoning behind.

I'm not saying 'don't lynch ANYONE else for ANY reason no matter how scummy they appear' sure, if a massive scumtell pops up that wasn't on T-Bone's wagon, I'm all for it. I think focusing on the wagon will lead to quicker results, and more likely scum flips. Quick isn't something town usually have to worry about, but with a potential mafia killing machine and the numbers involved, it's something of concern in this game, particularly more so when a lot of potential townies are disinterested at this point or posting days apart while a lot of people on the T-Bone wagon seem to be very active.

I'll give it to Luffy that he does SEEM like he is trying, posts often and has some useful things to say, but his vote on T-Bone was fluff and had no basis to it, other than pushing a wagon and he openly admitted it. That, coupled with the fact that UN was his biggest scumread for most of D1, and he never pushed it. I'm not familiar with his usual playstyle and maybe he is often conservative, but it just screams bussing scum to me.

[Amrun]

It is EXACTLY the same as Rhinox's proposal. There is no guarantee there is scum on the T-Bone wagon. None. NONE!

I don't see any of the things you said as particular scumtells in a game of this size, magnitude, feeling, and speed. They're good to note for the future, but my good vibe from him over ride it all. I can see all of those things coming from town, the T-Bone vote probably even more so from twon. Scum would just say, "I thought he was scum" and leave it at that.

Also, how can it scream "bussing"... WTF. T-Bone was town and UN hasn't flipped, and I have a strong town read on him anyway. Even if you believe UN is scum (do you?), then your vote should be THERE instead of on Luffy.

[TeChNoWC]

It is EXACTLY the same as Rhinox's proposal. There is no guarantee there is scum on the T-Bone wagon. None. NONE!

I don't see any of the things you said as particular scumtells in a game of this size, magnitude, feeling, and speed. They're good to note for the future, but my good vibe from him over ride it all. I can see all of those things coming from town, the T-Bone vote probably even more so from twon. Scum would just say, "I thought he was scum" and leave it at that.

Also, how can it scream "bussing"... WTF. T-Bone was town and UN hasn't flipped, and I have a strong town read on him anyway. Even if you believe UN is scum (do you?), then your vote should be THERE instead of on Luffy.

Yes, I believe UN is scum, but there is a wagon on Luffy and not UN. I couldn't decide if he was just a loltroll or scum, but at this stage I am leaning scum. Plus UN has had enough people scumhunting him with pages of reasoning that there is no need for me to pressure vote him. If a wagon arises (pending more rereads) I will probably jump on.

Maybe I am jumping to conclusions, with too many variables at play in my reads on Luffy... And I have been wrong about people with his playstyle before. UN's comment about T-Bone being at L-1 and anyone who didn't hammer was scum just seemed like maximum dodginess to me, and assuming them both as scum, I put two and two together in my reads with them unconfidently voting for each other on various occasions, but unified in their fight against T-Bone.

[Amrun]

Plus UN has had enough people scumhunting him with pages of reasoning that there is no need for me to pressure vote him.

Never, ever true.

And so you're just bandwagoning - just like you say Luffy did. Why is it a scumtell for him and not for you?


NEVER vote based on unflipped alignments EVER.

[TeChNoWC]

Plus UN has had enough people scumhunting him with pages of reasoning that there is no need for me to pressure vote him.

Never, ever true.

And so you're just bandwagoning - just like you say Luffy did. Why is it a scumtell for him and not for you?


NEVER vote based on unflipped alignments EVER.

Uh no, I'm not JUST bandwagoning, I provided reasons and reads on him, Luffy gave ONE reason for his T-Bone vote, and that was that he voted for Moneybags... a secondary reason being that he was LEADING TOWN. Basically, he wanted a strong towntell dead?

I didn't vote based on it. It was part of my reasoning, but you are probably right, and I should be probably striking that out of the equation.

Will re-ISO him a third time.

[Amrun]

Your reasons are all bad and the only reason that would be compelling (bussing) is only true if UN is scum. You admitted that you think UN should die first, but you are voting Luffy because he has a bandwagon on him. So yes, you are bandwagoning. Luffy wasn't JUST bandwagoning either - and yes, his reasons for voting T-Bone were kind of bad, but that doesn't mean he didn't have reasons.

[TeChNoWC]

Your reasons are all bad and the only reason that would be compelling (bussing) is only true if UN is scum. You admitted that you think UN should die first, but you are voting Luffy because he has a bandwagon on him. So yes, you are bandwagoning. Luffy wasn't JUST bandwagoning either - and yes, his reasons for voting T-Bone were kind of bad, but that doesn't mean he didn't have reasons.

When did I say I thought UN should die first? To the contrary. Luffy is my stronger read.

[Amrun]

Your "read" is based off of Luffy "bussing" UN, so that's absolutely not true. It doesn't make any sense. You said you were only voting Luffy because he had a wagon on him and UN did not.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

VOTE: Lowman