/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[DeasVail]

Well that works too.

[Shadoweh]

Your almost getting lynched wasn't panic. It was building up over time. But why are you choosing things like this to complain/whine about? What is it telling you about who is scum/town?
What don't you appreciate about llamarbles theory? What does that say about him? A good bit of his theory is based on Poe. Is there something wrong with his PoE pool?
What gives you the idea OGML doesn't care who gets lynched? Don't you guys have the same suspects? Were you just yelling at someone to yell?

Maybe. >_> I really shouldn't post at 4am when I'm not sure what I'm doing. The problem with paranoid ramblings, for example you suddenly having a thing against Empire, is that you can't know if you're onto something or if you're having a paranoid episode until a flip happens. If paranoia is correct, then Llamarble is basically the scum taking advantage of things. The thing is what he's saying is the most sense anyone's made all game.

The thing that's wrong with the pool and with some of the PoE in general is that there doesn't

have

to be a scum on every wagon. Especially quickwagons. Through extensive experience I've found that wild roving townies are the ones more likely to throw their votes around at random, it isn't out of the question that we're trying to narrow down a scum group that doesn't have any scum in it.

Or CES really is scum and I'm just wearing my tin foil hat too tight. I just think it's unsettling that no one disagrees with that part.

The thing that gives me the idea OGML doesn't care is that he is the one posting less content then me and all my posts are delusional ravings so it's a very coveted position. The thing I said Benmage did badly with the hammer is what he just did x100.

[Shadoweh]

PS I will support a Nachomamma wagon around the same time I finish my ADwD old man erotic fanfiction

[DeasVail]

I don't really think that CTD's posts are much of an indicator of Nacho-town though. Is there anything else about him that you think is really town? As I've said, he just seems not-very-town to me, and there have been previous games where he's been town and I've townread him.

I'm assuming that the post above means you don't want to lynch Nacho btw, so if it doesn't, my apologies.

[Nachomamma8]

nacho answering questions for CES is so incredibly scummy it should be taken out back and shot.

When questions are pretty much useless, then I don't see the need to let them float on by.

So, if he thinks that ces is town and Llamarble is scum, why is he limping about not actually trying to get his scum read lynched?

Do you really think I've been "limping about trying to get my scumread lynched"? Because if so, there's a problem.

Actually, to those on the CES wagon, why him over Nacho?

Why me in the first place?

And I was waiting to hear what Nacho had to say before interjecting.

What sort of intent do you think I had as scum in answering a question directed at CES?

(BBmolla did something like this in Sherlock as town, from memory)

That's part of BBMolla's meta.

Yeah, I would.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Nachomamma8

Now here's something interesting!

[DeasVail]

Why me in the first place?

Pretty much covered in my last post. And no one is really that scummy.

I mean, I really want us to be town together and not lynch each other and stuff, but I kind of think you're scum here. If I'm wrong, can you please show me that I'm just being silly somehow?

And I really don't think Llamarble is scum either.

[Nachomamma8]

I can't show you how you're being silly if your case on me is "you're not acting town".

[DeasVail]

So what should I think then?

[Faraday]

Day 3, Votecount 10

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Llamarble, Shadoweh, Zachrulez, OhGodMylife

OhGodMyLife (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Nachomamma8 (3) - Benmage, Deasvail, Tierce
Llamarble (1) - Nachomamma8

Not voting (2) :

Empire, Tammy

• With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 7th of April at 3:59am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-06 23:59:59)
  
• NO ONE is V/la

[Nachomamma8]

So what should I think then?

Something with an actual thought process?

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, I would.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Nachomamma8

Get back on CES you.

[Llamarble]

"The thing that's wrong with the pool and with some of the PoE in general is that there doesn't have to be a scum on every wagon."

I don't dispute that all-town wagons are possible, but that's not an issue with the pool since the pool comes from behavior & all the usual prior to wagon analysis.
Given the pool, it's easier to explain a wagon being all-town by it being on scum, and a wagon of 5 people on town will most often contain a scum.
I believe this is true with higher odds than randoming the alignments of all involved because scums see large wagons on town as opportunities to create a mislynch and add their votes.
Yes, having a lot of townie people on a wagon increases the odds that the wagon is all-town (the low probability of randoming an all town wagon ceases to be a factor), but the several wagons that become all-town on town if CES and Shadoweh are both town makes one of them being scum a simpler explanation of events than the alternative.

I am okay with Nacho votes.

[Llamarble]

Well, as prior as I can make it anyway given that any ideas I have feed into my reads etc.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: DeasVail

I was hoping he would respond one more time before I put my vote here, but this feels like a better vote for today.

[Benmage]

Benmage would fit as a partner given OGML's genuine disgust.

Explain this?

benmage is a great scum player and instead of doing anything, is lurking the days away
OGML is frustrated as a result

I lurked end of D1/and All of D2. I'm in the process of turning that around.

This is a prod-response-don't-replace-me post?? Really?
Wow.

No.. not really... Where am I being replaced?

[Benmage]

Vote: DeasVail

I was hoping he would respond one more time before I put my vote here, but this feels like a better vote for today.

With 1 1/2 days till deadline, and noone voting DV... could you be more useless?

[Nachomamma8]

I could be you.

[Benmage]

@EMPIRE

Okay, mad you aren't more in the game (ditto) don't know what to say...

How about a vote dude????!1??Mrtownread... Preferably on Nacho.

@Llamarable

, does that mean you're willing to vote Nacho?

@Tammy

I know you unvoted CES, and I imagine you're still willing to go back to him... correct me if I'm wrong. Anyways, can you give me a little insight on your Nacho read please. (Sorry if it means repeating oneself)

[Nachomamma8]

A lot of us are around; I suspect we can lynch whomever we want before deadline, especially since there's an extra day now.
VOTE: Benmage
Shadoweh did a pretty good job on defense if she's scum.
I don't think any of the lynch options for today (CES Benmage Shadoweh UT) are terrible ideas though.

This is a pretty poor attempt to lynch scum if Benmage was your buddy.

A lot of us are around; I suspect we can lynch whomever we want before deadline, especially since there's an extra day now.
VOTE: Benmage
Shadoweh did a pretty good job on defense if she's scum.
I don't think any of the lynch options for today (CES Benmage Shadoweh UT) are terrible ideas though.

Also, why did you choose Benmage over the Konowa replacement here?

Vote: Benmage

No question this is today's lynch.

Why did you decide to come off him recently?

we got an unlucky role result on Zach

Why did you keep bringing this up?

We haven't lived up to our expected collective proficiency, which I find much more likely if one of our highest-potential-usefulness players is scum.

This was the main thrust of Llamarble's earlier arguments, and here lies his fuckup. Towns have worse games that they should have. Saying "oh, it's because our best town player is scum" is a shitty declaration, and is going down the worst possible path if town is fucking up despite good players and scum is just doing better than they should be.

I'm not sure the game is this easy though.

This easy? It seems like you have been having a lot of trouble with the game recently; this easy isn't really something I wanted to hear from you.

@Zach CES vote fine... Nacho or Llamarble, hellz , OGML has 0.0% chance of making it to endgame... lets grow some cojones here.

Why do you choose me over Llamarble?

I'll get back into this tomorrow (7:30 PM class got cancelled woooo). I've been thinking of stuff to post but I really don't have anything to say right now for some reason.

Anyone have things to ask me?

Weren't you going to meta me?

Would anyone have a problem with me hammering?

I mean, I really want us to be town together and not lynch each other and stuff, but I kind of think you're scum here. If I'm wrong, can you please show me that I'm just being silly somehow?

I didn't really like this at all because it seemed like Deas is voting me because I'm not really doing anything townish, which is hypocritical as all hell. The offer to hammer CES is also strange considering with the fixation on me; the timing itself was just weird.

[Nachomamma8]

Basically, I'd expect confusion from my post and a desire for clarification rather than "DV is scum!", which I think would be more likely from scum.

I don't really like this. DV's opening was easily explainable and this practically sets up people to townread him.

My other scumread is probably Johhog for saying that I'm basically concocting new reasoning for my first post (which means I'm scum or just really strange town and although I'm a little strange, I don't think I'm that much!), which I think is kind of bad, but

And of course his two main scumreads are a wagon that Empire sold him on, and someone who called him scum because of his gambit.

OGML- I think 832 is scummy though.

This is strange and the only townread he decides to attack while calling him town.

but I'm kind of resorting to what I'd do as scum with them and trying to actively look for anything I can attack, and I can't think of anything then either.

What can you find to attack in my ISO now, DV?

Llamarble: I remember liking something about his reaction to the wagon and the stuff about trying to play in a new way felt genuine to me. Other than that, his most recent posts seem a lot more like him trying to work out the game than trying to look town. I don't know if I can explain it properly, but it does feel like more than gut to me.

CES: I think the way he attacks Vi is really town. Not much apart from that, but just generally feels town I guess? I think he may be less involved as scum too actually (from what I remember of Mafia and the Kitties anyway).

OGML- Mainly N's play not matching what I'd expect, and I thought his attack on Empire was very town-like.

Shadoweh- Not much apart from her just saying stuff that I think she'd say as town (I mean just general entertaining Shadoweh-type things). I've never played with her as scum though, so I'm not really sure if I'm able to distinguish that well.

Benmage- I'm worried this may be naive, but I actually think his recent lack of involvement could indicate not-scum. I guess I'm kind of sheeping on him mainly though, as I've heard he has a good scum game. He's another 'generally feels town' person as well.

I know DV can do better than "feels town, feels town, feels town".

And yeah, I probably won't vote for CES.

What happened to the earlier CES read?

Overall though, I still think N's play is not how he'd approach the game as scum (I think there would be more effort put into looking town) and his attack on Empire is another thing that I think is townish.

rereads N, doesn't change reasoning even a little bit

Actually, to those on the CES wagon, why him over Nacho?

No responses...

Would anyone have a problem with me hammering?

Doesn't matter, goes for the hammering anyways. It's almost like he was looking for someone to give him an excuse to hammer, but decided to go through with it anyways.

[Nachomamma8]

Ok everyone, I think it's time for a...

S

C

U

M

R

E

A

D

C

O

N

T

E

S

T

!!!!!

Here's how it will work:

You each get a... certain period of time to convince DeasVail that you have the best scumread! The winner gets the fabulous prize of...

DeasVail's absolutely amazing persuasive skills, as well as his vote, on their side!

Your time starts...

NOW!



Note: This IS a legitimately fun contest, despite what any of you may think.

(Deas loves having people give him excuses to jump on wagons as scum.)

[Llamarble]

I made Benmage the leading wagon with 1 day left until deadline; what more 'attempting to lynch scum' do you want?

I don't remember why Benmage over Konowa at that time, though I did like Shadoweh getting excited about lynching Benmage and the notion of Benmage as the "everyone agrees he's bad but he isn't being lynched" guy was encouraging too.

Why wouldn't I mention the reason Zach isn't in the scum pool when enumerating the scum pool (which I have done several times because as long as people agree with that and it's right we're pretty much going to win)?

That was not the main thrust of my arguments. It was the point that ended up being discussed a lot because people disagreed, but the PoE list is more important and based on regular old reads.

Nacho your DV case isn't bad. DV is in the pool of elimination.

[Benmage]

@CES

you have voted OGML for most of the day. Your reasoning has been there.... Yet there has not been a great surge to join your cause. Do you honestly believe in the next 24 hours an antiOGML surge will occur?

What is your view on Nacho, and Llamarble?

[Llamarble]

With 1 1/2 days till deadline, and noone voting DV... could you be more useless?

Don't be dumb. It's easy to get 6 votes together in 24 hours if you get traction. Nacho is way more 'useful' than you even if he's scum.

I'm not especially disinclined to lynch Nacho at this point though, since he's a strong enough player to know that the way you survive getting lynched is original scumhunting / pushing a new direction in the face of lynch-danger, and I can see his posting as scum doing that.

[Nachomamma8]

I made Benmage the leading wagon with 1 day left until deadline; what more 'attempting to lynch scum' do you want?

Benmage was already the counterwagon; if momentum was going there, your vote wouldn't mean much anyways. It was less that you attempted to lynch him and more that you didn't stand in the way of lynching him.

Why wouldn't I mention the reason Zach isn't in the scum pool when enumerating the scum pool (which I have done several times because as long as people agree with that and it's right we're pretty much going to win)?

No, it's bad because Zach is pretty much confirmed town. "Mafia Vanilla"

could

be possible, but it seems stupid to give the scumteam immunity to a two-shot role that doesn't real guilties.

That was not the main thrust of my arguments. It was the point that ended up being discussed a lot because people disagreed, but the PoE list is more important and based on regular old reads.

But it was the reason of CES over the rest of the PoE pool, correct?