Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[Nashville Dreams]

Maybe I'm not totally accepting of my lynch, maybe I do want to talk more with people. Maybe I want ika to pull his head of out his ass and see that he's wrong. He did this with Titus in xmen. I have seen him do it before. He's like OMG she has lost all credit, but what about him. He's OTT reacting and he's wrong.

~M

Idk why you got the feeling I was resigned.

[Nashville Dreams]

Idk why the fuck you want me to react. I don't see the point. In fact I don't have a clue why you are scum reading me other than probably maybe because of Titus.
~M

[Lissa]

gossamer - Leaning town. Not super sure but some of their posts just have a townish feel to them. They come off as genuine (not including when they are being sarcastic of course).

Spoiler: A few posts of note

I thought these were townish posts. Genuine tone and (mostly in the second one) good, well-reasoned observations.

All right I read the game! I'm so proud of myself.

I have some thoughts on the baboon/FT stuff but going to hold onto it. I'd rather let falcon interact with four trouble organically and get a read there while talking with him about it before I say anything. I do think that baboon pride is town though.

Anatole - hi! You should start checking westeros boards as we're actually starting to play again. I don't get your scum read on baboon. Does knowing that it's Mara who played in time shift two change your perception at all? (Or did you already know that?)

I still think cutey shark is town and Nashville dreams. I'm actually a little flattered that they really just want to NAIL DOWN MY ALIGNMENT. I'm rather self-absorbed, and like that they seem to have read me and picked up on certain tells about me. I said last night it felt a bit prideful that they think they've picked up some of my tells and are trying to apply it here. It's just something I think is more likely to come from town. Also I'm a tone reader, so it's kinda kindred. I'm still gonna have fun with them, I'd like to lock elbows, skip through the park and sing happy

country

pop songs.

Leaning town on creativity. I actually like fonz's argument. Also another person I'm going to laugh at calling me scum. Lighten up. I'm having fun.

I think that fonz probably cursed out nati if he drew scum after not playing so long as I know he wasn't entirely happy to draw it in swagtown. That doesn't mean a whole lot to his alignment but it might inform his tone. I still need to check out swagtown to answer falcons question though.

Will talk to falcon later to see where he wants to move our vote.

Just re-read half the game (up to page 13). Reading the rest now.

@ FT, I'm townreading Baboon because Mara's conviction feels genuine. Tammy's also played quite a few games with Mara and has her as town based on meta. She also liked Post 301 as something Mara is unlikely to post as scum. Post 311 is another reason I'm townreading Baboon. If they are scum, it makes little sense for them to limit their mislynch options within the neighborhood. Here are two games with scum-Mara for comparison. I played in the second one and Tammy played in both. From what I remember from the one I played in, she doesn't have the same conviction and certainty when she is making pushes as scum. Compare with NY 169 where she spent quite a bit of time pushing me when we were both town and it came across as very genuine. I also feel that Mara often hides her real reasons and gives up surface level reasoning so she doesn't truly give away how she reads people. Also, what about Honeybee's Post 308 resonated?

@ Baboon, 5-Off isn't newb scum. New to mafiascum maybe, but he's played plenty of mafia offsite and has a reasonably developed scumgame.

@ Lissa, can you explain your townread on Baboon and scumread on FT?

@ Cutty, I agree with your point on IHNC in Post 274 and I lean slight town on it. I think it was ika who posted it but I'm still wary of townreading a hydra with Beast for it. If he is scum, he can certainly drop fake towntells. In Mafia with the Quickness, Beast used his neighborhood as a hydra QT with Marquis and was scum then, so I wouldn't put it past him to drop a fake towntell.

~ F-16

And in this post:

I had a paranoid theory about lissa but I'm still pickng out briars.

Basically fonz was the one who came out and asked if everyone disbelieved the claim that 5-off made and that made everyone think lissa looks town. But I wondered, since scum have day talk, if lissa would have listed what happened in the neighborhood and her partners told her to react like that and then used it to clear her.

But I think that's a far fetched thought even for me. Except I don't not really

Their mentioning this paranoid theory like they did strikes me as a townish thing to do. I'm not sure scum would want to potentially draw attention to themselves with a paranoid theory about a near-universal townread.

Right. Hood people. This is reasonably important.

When 5-off said there was scum in the 'hood, did anyone say that their role PM didn't mention anything about that? If so, who did so first?

I paraphrased this post.

You're asking me to rationalize a paranoid theory. Lissa looked town to everyone for saying it? That's a motivation. I mean, as scum, she couldn't know that every town wouldn't have that in the role pm, but I mean yeah. I kinda like lissa anyway as she said she wentooking through my meta and couldn't find what others said was there when I kinda think it would be easier to go yeah it's there but yeah not going to stop that part of my brain that goes THEY SET IT ALL UP!!!

Here they remain paranoid. It feels genuine and town that they are thinking like this even though the theory itself is incorrect.

Anatole - probably town. Iso feels mostly townish and I like how he's stuck to his reads, even though I think at least his scumreads are likely wrong. His conviction makes them feel genuine. Want to give him a night at the very least, though I wouldn't be interested in lynching him today anyway. (The whole role thing with Anatole/Baboon/Csareo doesn't really directly affect my read on him much.)

Csareo - Leaning slightly town. The claim is clearly not fake, it just doesn't guarantee he's town.

Nashville Dreams - Leaning scum. I'm not getting town vibes from most of their posts right now. Though not sure what to think of the way IHNC is tunneling them.

Honey bee - Her few posts have been fine but she needs to say more. (yes I know I'm sort of one to talk.) Null.

Cutty Shark - Leaning slightly town.

5-Off - Leaning town. Partly because of the neighborhood information he shared, but also his posts seem townish. Side note, that avatar thing was priceless

The Fonz - Probably town. Most of his posts give me strong town vibes.

I have no creativity - wtf are they doing. I was leaning slightly town on most of their posts but their recent posts are odd. They are tunneling nashville in a way that to me seems incredibly emotional and I'm not sure how to read it. Null maybe leaning slightly town?

Mr_Ree - null. Want to see what his replacement says.

FourTrouble - His posts alternate between making me feel like he might be town and making me go "nope, he's scum." Overall still leaning scum.

Baboon - Still town.

In summary
leaning scum: four, nashville
null: ree, honey bee, ihnc
null-town: csareo, cutty shark
leaning/probably town: anatole, gossamer, baboon, fonz, 5-off

Would be good with a lynch of four or nashville I think. Might be okay lynching honey bee. My view on Ree depends on what his replacement says. I'm not sure about ihnc. Do not want to lynch gossamer, baboon, anatole, fonz or 5-off today barring some very good reason, would rather not lynch csareo or cutty shark.
I probably have waaay too many strong townreads. >-< It's just easier for me to get townreads D1 than scumreads.

[Csareo]

I think Titus is town actually. I may elaborate more later, but there isn't much time for me now.

[gossamer wings]

UNVOTE:

I have a terrible headache bbl

[The Fonz]

@Tammy - I'm not compromising because a) My first choice wagon was only one off the lead at the last votecount b) it's not like there are two other competing wagons I'm neglecting to choose between c) I've already made clear my second-favourite wagon is Nashville, and that I'm willing to move if there's no traction on FourTrouble and d) FourTrouble has been scummy and inconsistent recently.

Remember when he said scum can be scum because of a lack of a believable thought process? Earlier today, FT said he was leaning town on me

specifically because of

my interactions with Honey Bee and IHNC - see post 744 - he said my willingness to be aware of my own biases re HB and genuine attempt to read IHNC read town. Now he's turned around and labelled specifically that trio as scum, while throwing out the strong Baboon suspicion he's been pushing literally all day based on some kind of bizarre interpretation of the csareo affair. You know what this reads to me like? When he thought I might back off, when I was wavering a bit in the middle of the day and might well have shifted had I had a second scumread even close to him, he was reading me town. Now that there's a little less heat on him, and some anti-Fonz murmurings, he's suddenly decided I'm scum with two players who have voted me today.

At the same time, this player who seems to think that 'contrived' thought processes are scummy, seems to have no interest whatsoever in Nashville's approach to csareo, which is pretty much the poster child for 'contrived thought process.' Oh, and his accusations of 'fake emotion' don't seem plausible and seem designed to get IHNC to melt down.

Oh by the way, before I forget, anyone who's saying I'm 'useless' or 'not taking strong positions' can fucking well go and do one. I've taken plenty of strong stances in this game - that more of them than usual are 'this player seems really town' rather than scum reads doesn't mean I'm not trying to sort one from the other.

[Cutty Shark]

Remember when he said scum can be scum because of a lack of a believable thought process? Earlier today, FT said he was leaning town on me specifically because of my interactions with Honey Bee and IHNC - see post 744 - he said my willingness to be aware of my own biases re HB and genuine attempt to read IHNC read town. Now he's turned around and labelled specifically that trio as scum, while throwing out the strong Baboon suspicion he's been pushing literally all day based on some kind of bizarre interpretation of the csareo affair. You know what this reads to me like? When he thought I might back off, when I was wavering a bit in the middle of the day and might well have shifted had I had a second scumread even close to him, he was reading me town. Now that there's a little less heat on him, and some anti-Fonz murmurings, he's suddenly decided I'm scum with two players who have voted me today.

I like this point a lot
I also didn't even notice him swapping stances on you and swapping back with (seemingly) no impetus from you
And yes the way he's handled this AK / BP thing with the

Huge baboon push => csareogate: their role PMs are the same (???) => AK & BP town => oh nevermind but AK is still town => Fonz/HB/IHNC are the scumteam now

that caused him to back off BP on was crap.

VOTE: FT

-b

[Nashville Dreams]

Bork, I think FT is town. We'll move to IHNC if you do. You think Csareo is town, and can't vote there. I can't vote FT. This is meeting in the middle.

-Titus

[Cutty Shark]

Why ika just has a hard on for Titus
ika quoted that the mod wouldn't lie to the players.
This highlights ika should be aware of how transparently false Csareo's claim is.
ika ignores this to push a lynch for me in face of any rational act.
Conclusion: ika is scum or just playing overly emotional not thinking things through.

This is your ika case?

Literally everyone in the game is against you on the Csareo thing; why is he any different?
Hell it even has a hedge built into it.

I also think he's playing somewhat similar to X-Men, whereas your reaction to him is totally different. What gives?

-b

[I have no creativity]

Hello everyone, did you miss me?

I understand we need to kill the wanna be country singer. Can we get on that please?

@Csareo:

Why do you get a town feel from them?

@Lissa:

The best way I can describe Titus needing to be lynched is that they are Titus. I always scum read Titus no matter what but gosh darn if she isn't always scummy.
All of our posts have been 100% genuine and Ika is upset. I mean upset at what Titus is doing. Titus knows better and claims to know all about how Ika plays and yet she can't even grasp what we were trying to do? It is obvious Ika is in the driving seat for this game, like most hydras I use first time out. Titus is purposely obstructing what we are doing.
Hope that helps you some.

[The Fonz]

Also, note that to have a me/IHNC/Honey scumteam in mind, and to be confident it's Ree if not those three, FT HAS to be doing some kind of PoE thing where he rules everyone else out.

Which means he's committing to the idea there's no scum in the neighbourhood. Given what the first twenty or so pages of discussion were about, to come to that conclusion without mentioning it, or to just forget all that stuff happened, is frankly bizzare.

[The Fonz]

*Bizarre

[Nashville Dreams]

Why ika just has a hard on for Titus
ika quoted that the mod wouldn't lie to the players.
This highlights ika should be aware of how transparently false Csareo's claim is.
ika ignores this to push a lynch for me in face of any rational act.
Conclusion: ika is scum or just playing overly emotional not thinking things through.

This is your ika case?

Literally everyone in the game is against you on the Csareo thing; why is he any different?
Hell it even has a hedge built into it.

I also think he's playing somewhat similar to X-Men, whereas your reaction to him is totally different. What gives?

-b

No. That is not my ika case. (As for Csareo, I don't give a shit if everyone is against me on a scumread. My scumreads are based on my own opinion. He is scum. I've also hounded and been right Bork.)

I'll outline my ika case.

First, ika discovers who I am through my phraseology unique to him. I made note of this because I was attempting to work with ika through various references trying to get him to help me lynch Csareo.
Second, he acts dumb not knowing who I am. That pissed me off because it meant ika was scum.
Third, he's fascinated with getting us to claim and tunnels me for refusing (despite the fact he already knows). Why would that be necessary if he had already caught me? Simple because he wants his buddies to know to lynch me. There's little no reason to suddenly "unknow" something if town in mafia.
Fourth, ika lurks a lot as scum. ika was concerned about being perceived as lurking here. AS town, he's never concerned about it. ika was active, never got defensive about his meta tells and was generally scumhunting. Here, he's just looking to 1 v 1 someone to check the box on his meta card. He may get his wish because town won't lynch his scumbuddy.

Now, what's your ika case?

[Nashville Dreams]

I forgot all of 1429 but I still agree with it.

[Nashville Dreams]

gossamer - Leaning town. Not super sure but some of their posts just have a townish feel to them. They come off as genuine (not including when they are being sarcastic of course).

Spoiler: A few posts of note

I thought these were townish posts. Genuine tone and (mostly in the second one) good, well-reasoned observations.

All right I read the game! I'm so proud of myself.

I have some thoughts on the baboon/FT stuff but going to hold onto it. I'd rather let falcon interact with four trouble organically and get a read there while talking with him about it before I say anything. I do think that baboon pride is town though.

Anatole - hi! You should start checking westeros boards as we're actually starting to play again. I don't get your scum read on baboon. Does knowing that it's Mara who played in time shift two change your perception at all? (Or did you already know that?)

I still think cutey shark is town and Nashville dreams. I'm actually a little flattered that they really just want to NAIL DOWN MY ALIGNMENT. I'm rather self-absorbed, and like that they seem to have read me and picked up on certain tells about me. I said last night it felt a bit prideful that they think they've picked up some of my tells and are trying to apply it here. It's just something I think is more likely to come from town. Also I'm a tone reader, so it's kinda kindred. I'm still gonna have fun with them, I'd like to lock elbows, skip through the park and sing happy

country

pop songs.

Leaning town on creativity. I actually like fonz's argument. Also another person I'm going to laugh at calling me scum. Lighten up. I'm having fun.

I think that fonz probably cursed out nati if he drew scum after not playing so long as I know he wasn't entirely happy to draw it in swagtown. That doesn't mean a whole lot to his alignment but it might inform his tone. I still need to check out swagtown to answer falcons question though.

Will talk to falcon later to see where he wants to move our vote.

Just re-read half the game (up to page 13). Reading the rest now.

@ FT, I'm townreading Baboon because Mara's conviction feels genuine. Tammy's also played quite a few games with Mara and has her as town based on meta. She also liked Post 301 as something Mara is unlikely to post as scum. Post 311 is another reason I'm townreading Baboon. If they are scum, it makes little sense for them to limit their mislynch options within the neighborhood. Here are two games with scum-Mara for comparison. I played in the second one and Tammy played in both. From what I remember from the one I played in, she doesn't have the same conviction and certainty when she is making pushes as scum. Compare with NY 169 where she spent quite a bit of time pushing me when we were both town and it came across as very genuine. I also feel that Mara often hides her real reasons and gives up surface level reasoning so she doesn't truly give away how she reads people. Also, what about Honeybee's Post 308 resonated?

@ Baboon, 5-Off isn't newb scum. New to mafiascum maybe, but he's played plenty of mafia offsite and has a reasonably developed scumgame.

@ Lissa, can you explain your townread on Baboon and scumread on FT?

@ Cutty, I agree with your point on IHNC in Post 274 and I lean slight town on it. I think it was ika who posted it but I'm still wary of townreading a hydra with Beast for it. If he is scum, he can certainly drop fake towntells. In Mafia with the Quickness, Beast used his neighborhood as a hydra QT with Marquis and was scum then, so I wouldn't put it past him to drop a fake towntell.

~ F-16

And in this post:

I had a paranoid theory about lissa but I'm still pickng out briars.

Basically fonz was the one who came out and asked if everyone disbelieved the claim that 5-off made and that made everyone think lissa looks town. But I wondered, since scum have day talk, if lissa would have listed what happened in the neighborhood and her partners told her to react like that and then used it to clear her.

But I think that's a far fetched thought even for me. Except I don't not really

Their mentioning this paranoid theory like they did strikes me as a townish thing to do. I'm not sure scum would want to potentially draw attention to themselves with a paranoid theory about a near-universal townread.

Right. Hood people. This is reasonably important.

When 5-off said there was scum in the 'hood, did anyone say that their role PM didn't mention anything about that? If so, who did so first?

I paraphrased this post.

You're asking me to rationalize a paranoid theory. Lissa looked town to everyone for saying it? That's a motivation. I mean, as scum, she couldn't know that every town wouldn't have that in the role pm, but I mean yeah. I kinda like lissa anyway as she said she wentooking through my meta and couldn't find what others said was there when I kinda think it would be easier to go yeah it's there but yeah not going to stop that part of my brain that goes THEY SET IT ALL UP!!!

Here they remain paranoid. It feels genuine and town that they are thinking like this even though the theory itself is incorrect.

Anatole - probably town. Iso feels mostly townish and I like how he's stuck to his reads, even though I think at least his scumreads are likely wrong. His conviction makes them feel genuine. Want to give him a night at the very least, though I wouldn't be interested in lynching him today anyway. (The whole role thing with Anatole/Baboon/Csareo doesn't really directly affect my read on him much.)

Csareo - Leaning slightly town. The claim is clearly not fake, it just doesn't guarantee he's town.

Nashville Dreams - Leaning scum. I'm not getting town vibes from most of their posts right now. Though not sure what to think of the way IHNC is tunneling them.

Honey bee - Her few posts have been fine but she needs to say more. (yes I know I'm sort of one to talk.) Null.

Cutty Shark - Leaning slightly town.

5-Off - Leaning town. Partly because of the neighborhood information he shared, but also his posts seem townish. Side note, that avatar thing was priceless

The Fonz - Probably town. Most of his posts give me strong town vibes.

I have no creativity - wtf are they doing. I was leaning slightly town on most of their posts but their recent posts are odd. They are tunneling nashville in a way that to me seems incredibly emotional and I'm not sure how to read it. Null maybe leaning slightly town?

Mr_Ree - null. Want to see what his replacement says.

FourTrouble - His posts alternate between making me feel like he might be town and making me go "nope, he's scum." Overall still leaning scum.

Baboon - Still town.

In summary
leaning scum: four, nashville
null: ree, honey bee, ihnc
null-town: csareo, cutty shark
leaning/probably town: anatole, gossamer, baboon, fonz, 5-off

Would be good with a lynch of four or nashville I think. Might be okay lynching honey bee. My view on Ree depends on what his replacement says. I'm not sure about ihnc. Do not want to lynch gossamer, baboon, anatole, fonz or 5-off today barring some very good reason, would rather not lynch csareo or cutty shark.
I probably have waaay too many strong townreads. >-< It's just easier for me to get townreads D1 than scumreads.

This is frustrating as all get out for a post.

A) You recognize that Csareo isn't confirmed town.
B) You are scumreading me and I'm the only other player saying he's not confirmed town, making that message much harder to pass onto the group.

It also doesn't make sense how you can scumread me while I'm the biggest one making sure we don't townread a scum.

Yet, scum even if Csareo is town, wouldn't be engaging in such a nuanced analysis. If Csareo is scum, it kinda works but only if I'm radically wrong on the scumreads.

Side note: I hate spontaneous readwalls by people not voted and not a catchup...doesn't really matter though. Totally a null tell but each time I see it, they ping scum.

I'm also the inverse, it's easier to get solid scumreads for me. That's because scum like voting me though.

[Nashville Dreams]

Hello everyone, did you miss me?

I understand we need to kill the wanna be country singer. Can we get on that please?

@Csareo:

Why do you get a town feel from them?

@Lissa:

The best way I can describe Titus needing to be lynched is that they are Titus. I always scum read Titus no matter what but gosh darn if she isn't always scummy.
All of our posts have been 100% genuine and Ika is upset. I mean upset at what Titus is doing. Titus knows better and claims to know all about how Ika plays and yet she can't even grasp what we were trying to do? It is obvious Ika is in the driving seat for this game, like most hydras I use first time out. Titus is purposely obstructing what we are doing.
Hope that helps you some.

That's basically ika saying he wants to WotC me if town (unlikely) and scumika trying to push through a mislynch.

Lyching me because you hate my reads is fucking more anti-town than me just having a read you disagree with. Yeah, I accept people aren't going to lynch the obviously bullshitting scum.

[I have no creativity]

No, that is me trying to explain it. You claimed recently to be awesome at reading Ika and yet you are doing a horrible job here. Me and You can read each other for shit since I am pretty sure we automatically scum read each other. Who exactly is the obvious bullshitting scum? I know for sure it isn't my slot because you know what me bullshitting looks like.

And I agree with your statement, you are unlikely to be town.

Lastly, I don't lynch people because I don't like their reads. I just ignore their reads. I don't know how you got I wanted to lynch you because of your reads.

[Nashville Dreams]

ika, you didn't even state one thing I allegedly did scummy. You said it's "me" or "I'm always scummy". That's precisely what it is. Call a spade a spade.

Csareo is the obvious bullshitter. But hey, have some knowledge as scum, give it to the town. Bask in towncred. Seen it done.

I've never said and ment I'm unlikely to be town. Stop shitting yourself.

You haven't given a reason why you want me lynched because you just want to lynch me to shut me up. Well newsflash, play to your wincon. Doing this stupid shit does neither.

I used to read you like a book. Then I told you you lurk as scum.
Whaddya know, you're defensive about lurking day 1.

[I have no creativity]

I am beast. How you think I am Ika is beyond me.

[ika]

Beast can you grab my iso stuff I'm still at work but I'll be home in an hr or so

[I have no creativity]

Beast can you grab my iso stuff I'm still at work but I'll be home in an hr or so

Then start with me the sooner I get lynch maybe the sooner you will listen

I want the hammer though

If everyone is serious about lynching us I'm asking for a few things:

•wait until I'm home so I can give a proper fully finished reads list.
• let me talk to Titus about something and get it settled so it

benefits the town.

Then you can be on your merrily way to lynching us, okay?

That's all I ask

~M

So you are saying you are not part of the town? Die

I meant to add a third.

Bork, notty explained to me in xmen in our neighborhood PT on how to read a Titus. Go read that please.

~M

And I have explained it as well in hywtd to pants.

I have yet to see Titus famous tunnel either. Where is it? I don't see her freaking out like she usually does as town

pedit: how come we are both town?

waiiiiitttttt.....

TITUS ARE YOU IN THERE AGAIN?

Only one way to find out. Let me post and see if we are a scum read. Then we know for sure Titus is in there.

Ika - why do you basically say Titus calling you scum is a scum claim for her when this post suggests otherwise?

Out of hydra due to work but I think that was like one of the few posts made by beast. He says work is keeping him busy.

And does that really look like I would have covo with myself?

[Cutty Shark]

The ika expert has spoken. This is clearly ika imitating beast.

[I have no creativity]

Oh hey, I should respond to that one post.

@gossamer:

It was a joke. Titus and I always scum read each other.

[Nashville Dreams]

CS, you should read that post as more of an afterthought. You see similar in my posts all the time. I'm the queen of the double/triple post.

ika is totally the one posting here.

[Cutty Shark]

That's bork talking to you. I talked to you yesterday and boy did I learn my lesson!