Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:01 pm**

Vote Count 2-10

Jólakötturinn, aka the Yule Cat is another Icelandic Christmas monster. Jólakötturinn is a cat belonging to the ogress hag Grýla, who happens to be the mother of the aforementioned Yule Trolls. This legend dates back to the Middle ages and Jólakötturinn is not your typical house cat. He's as big as a house, and only likes to eat children. But, his appetite is put off if they’re wearing new clothes, even a new pair of socks. His favorite treat is a saffron bun called a lussikatter. One of his treats, and he's satisfied for the night, fortunately. Leaving a lussikatter on the mantle on Christmas eve is just like cookies and milk for Santa.

Not!

quiet

(2): Spartan117, flow trap

floo

(2): Fredrick A Campbell, Prism

Fredrick A Campbell

(1): quiet

fairyprincess69

(1): floo

Not Voting

(1): fairyprincess69

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Revised Deadline: January 31, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Revised Countdown: (expired on 2021-01-30 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:01 pm**

Aight, I'm at my limit, I'm taking a walk, I'm giving reads, and then I'm voting. I've made my point to/from flow trap, I can either deal with him tomorrow or someone else can pick up where I left off.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:01 pm**

Ur doing great spartan, that helps me understand thank you, and my top vote today would actually be flow trap.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:02 pm**

In post 1491, fairyprincess69 wrote:@prism

i feel at least partially your read on floo is influenced by your attitude towards mafia games, and perhaps of life itself. you love diplomacy, social harmony, emotional intelligence. i think when you're reading floo you're putting yourself in
his
shoes and coming away from it knowing you'd treat Salsa completely different. and that's fine. i just don't think floo has any motive to accomodate salsa's feelings - he scumreads her afterall, and his entire MO in that exchange was provocation for reactions. do you think the difference in philosophy could be skewing your read a bit?

I like this read from you fairy I think this is a very good analysis of what might have been going on between prism and floo, unless there might have been some extra influence causing the push, im not sure but I like what you are doing here.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:02 pm**

While I'm gone think through who you want to vote/don't want me to vote and I'll work through it with you in a bit.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:03 pm**

That's to quiet/fairy but also applies to Spartan and Frederick if he shows up.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:08 pm**

In post 1492, flow trap wrote:
In post 1489, Prism wrote:My point is you need to fight for your votes. It doesn't matter if you're right if you lose the game.
You want me to defend Quiet?

I am not asking you to defend anyone, but can you please tell me and everyone else here why you are scum reading quiet and myself (from 1473 seen below), i dont care that you are scum reading me i just want you to express why that is the case so I can better understand you, im worried of there being a chance you get flipped d2 and youre town and we still never know why you think anyone is anything, please help us solve this puzzle, if you are town there must be a shred in you that wants to actually win this, than you just being completely 100% you will go down with your ship that you know you are right but now one else will know what you know.

In post 1473, flow trap wrote:No it's not you would be stepping on my foot if you voted quiet

I SR spartan & Quiet so I switched

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:10 pm**

I think I've been talked out of Spartian/floo today. This means I want Fred or Flow Trap, and Flow Trap just confuses the hell out of me so idk about that one. It seems like fairy, myself, spartian, are all willing to vote Fred.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:13 pm**

In post 1507, quiet wrote:I think I've been talked out of Spartian/floo today. This means I want Fred or Flow Trap, and Flow Trap just confuses the hell out of me so idk about that one. It seems like fairy, myself, spartian, are all willing to vote Fred.

woah wasn't flow chart the chaos god one of your top townreads?

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:14 pm**

In post 1499, flow trap wrote:
In post 1498, Spartan117 wrote:I dont know if i just misread what was going on, were you refusing to share your reads and saying why should you explain to the group your thoughts on why you are voting people at this late crutial state near the deadline of D2 so we can better understand where you are coming from so as to make better more informed decisions? or did i misunderstand?
I
have
stated all my reads

then restate them or at least tell me what posts they are in, rather than me trying to do a cryptic treasure hunt, its 2am ive not got time for that im still trying to go through everyone elses posts, like i said d1 you are so anti town its not even funny, I know i am town and some of the rest of us here are town, whether you are just some spicy town who is inadvertently helping scum or if you are scum its just sooo anti town to do what you do. during a normal point in any irl day its frustrating enough but on deadline day for d2 we neeed more, if you are so convinced myself and quiet are the scum team, tell us why you are so sure everyone else is town help us read them, work with us, please.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:15 pm**

can i just also say that scum team chart that was made i think twice both times by flow trap if im not mistaken obv didn't have him on it either time so is basically irrelevant if he is scum, ive just seen that talked about a few times about how great it was that it was made and wanted to bring it up

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:19 pm**

In post 1509, Spartan117 wrote:
In post 1499, flow trap wrote:
In post 1498, Spartan117 wrote:I dont know if i just misread what was going on, were you refusing to share your reads and saying why should you explain to the group your thoughts on why you are voting people at this late crutial state near the deadline of D2 so we can better understand where you are coming from so as to make better more informed decisions? or did i misunderstand?
I
have
stated all my reads
then restate them or at least tell me what posts they are in, rather than me trying to do a cryptic treasure hunt, its 2am ive not got time for that im still trying to go through everyone elses posts, like i said d1 you are so anti town its not even funny, I know i am town and some of the rest of us here are town, whether you are just some spicy town who is inadvertently helping scum or if you are scum its just sooo anti town to do what you do. during a normal point in any irl day its frustrating enough but on deadline day for d2 we neeed more, if you are so convinced myself and quiet are the scum team, tell us why you are so sure everyone else is town help us read them, work with us, please.

Gladly one moment

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:23 pm**

In post 1508, fairyprincess69 wrote:woah wasn't flow chart the chaos god one of your top townreads?

Yes, but my reads are TRASH and I'm throwing up my hands and flailing around at this point. And my favorite chaos god hasn't delivered any positive chaos today. Flow Chart is a good partner, and I'm paralyzed about Spartian and floo.

@Floo, Flow Trap vs. Fred go

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:30 pm**

In post 1451, quiet wrote:I have 1 completed game in newbie queue. I have played no other games on any other sites, I watched some decently high level Zoom mafia on youtube which which is what got me into wanting to play mafia (a lateral from my interest in incomplete information games and poker + game theory in general, but mostly as it relates to microfinance and sustainability stuff, which is wayyy outta scope for this kinda thing). So basically no experience prior to the last month or so playing form mafia, but a good amount of thinking about related topics.

On a semi-related note, in my first newbie game, someone tunnled me based on, in part, believing me to be misrepresenting my experience.

not sure i believe you. you use a ton of forum mafia lingo that i don't think would be accumulated in such a short time frame. i'm not sure if this has any bearing on your alignment, but you're most assuredly a mafia progidy if you're being truthful about your experience

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:31 pm**

Here is a list of me not giving reads and some explanations

Spoiler:

In post 98, flow trap wrote:I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

In post 105, flow trap wrote:It seemed like a town play to me, what scum wants this kind of negative attention this early on

In post 114, flow trap wrote:That would be my other SR; however less so and I feel they created a better dynamic which could help next round

In post 121, flow trap wrote:
In post 119, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 98, flow trap wrote:I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

Can you share the reasons?
Floo seems typical chaotic town and Spartan seems genuine here

In post 218, flow trap wrote:VOTE: Salsabil Faria
For being passive and fluffy

(Insert pair Analysises)

In post 304, flow trap wrote:
In post 303, Prism wrote:The fact they're continuing to sound the alarm into the present page suggests it is legitimate.
I agree, also the lack of resistance worried me

In post 396, flow trap wrote:I could see salsa being one of those who like to purposefully put wolf tells to make them not wolf tells

In post 414, flow trap wrote:I don't like this playing the victim tone you have

In post 420, flow trap wrote:I'm only talking from a game standpoint, you being dismissive only makes me suspect you more

In post 449, flow trap wrote:
In post 446, esotericzoomer wrote:i would like to ask for towncred
That's fair, it's pretty solid other than a couple of things I'll mention when I feel like it (mostly on salsa), and the fact that I, in my opinion, don't find mind melding to be towny

In post 455, flow trap wrote:Personally, I find Enchanted's interactions er... benign

In post 456, flow trap wrote:Ok here is the thing I don't agree with

In post 444, esotericzoomer wrote:In post 44, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 38, Enchant wrote:
Yeeaaah.

So i'm not good at game, where main source of info is people yelling on each other.

Dude, you won Newbie 2046 by fooling the town perfectly! If you are not good, don't know who can be!!

Being supportive is always townie.
Being nice is generally a wolf tell from my experience; however, this was early in the game, so I would probably give this a neutral

In post 470, flow trap wrote:I think his reaction to my fake suspicion was plausible, but you do have a case

In post 504, flow trap wrote:
In post 500, flow trap wrote:
In post 492, Prism wrote:
In post 490, flow trap wrote:I mean they do have 7 days
Is there a reason you're trying to alleviate the pressure I'm applying?

If you think it's a bad push, explain why. Saying this just gets in the way for 0 reason.
I have a dry sense of humor
Correction. I was merely suggesting the possibility that they were planning something for the future.

In post 591, flow trap wrote:I also agree that Enchant is acting scummy

In post 600, flow trap wrote:Ok, my TRs at this time are Prism & Floo

In post 664, flow trap wrote:Ah, realization

Ok I TR Salsa but very easily changeable

In post 671, flow trap wrote:
In post 670, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 666, flow trap wrote:
In post 665, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 663, quiet wrote:Or maybe salsa is just the god of formatting and I’m letting my naked jealousy of their posting technique color my opinion.

Well either way, high effort high quality easy to understand posts gets a +town from me.

Hoping no one is trying to pocket me here
Actually, that's why I asked about Spartan

Okay, when you want to know things from me, please be very thorough with your words, as I already said, English is not my native language. Now, if you mean that if I'm trying to pocket
Spartan117
or not, the answer is no. I stated on page 10 (post 226) which was an early period of the game that I'm getting a town vibe from him, which is not changed yet.
I meant the other way around

In post 676, flow trap wrote:
In post 675, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 674, flow trap wrote:
In post 673, Salsabil Faria wrote:Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?
I mean you can't be aware of a successful pocket attempt, nor do I think a pocket attempt would be done in one post

Well, I have to re-read his iso again then. But, why do you think he can be a scum?
I've fallen for the scum tactic in #549 so many times, so I'm very wary of that

In post 755, flow trap wrote:Ok, I think I'm going to place Salsa in the Leaning Scum but not open to shoot category

In post 788, flow trap wrote:In defense of Floo, town shouldn't go out of their way to be suspicious

In post 822, flow trap wrote:
In post 820, esotericzoomer wrote:
In post 819, flow trap wrote:If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?
myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick
I'm not sure FaC is maf

In post 828, flow trap wrote:
In post 825, esotericzoomer wrote:you're being too paranoid
This sounds scummy tbh

In post 847, flow trap wrote:
In post 843, Spartan117 wrote:
In post 734, flow trap wrote:Fredrick yes, but I don't see how it's preventing either when I have
★ Unlimited Vote Changes ★
Why do you want to prevent a Fredrick wagon?
Because I TR them

In post 882, flow trap wrote:
In post 879, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 822, flow trap wrote:
In post 820, esotericzoomer wrote:
In post 819, flow trap wrote:If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?
myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick
I'm not sure FaC is maf

Why?
Has not used emoji

In post 936, flow trap wrote:
In post 934, Prism wrote:
In post 828, flow trap wrote:
In post 825, esotericzoomer wrote:you're being too paranoid
This sounds scummy tbh
Do you scumread Esoteric overall?
Null town

In post 1006, flow trap wrote:250th post (Almost 1/4th)

Yeah, I consent to an Enchant shot

In post 1033, flow trap wrote:Mild suspicion on Prism, Quiet, & FaC for that NK

In post 1038, flow trap wrote:
In post 1037, Prism wrote:What happened to your scumread on Salsabil?
Same deal

In post 1082, flow trap wrote:I'm worried that Fredrick is Enchant 2.0, and the people who are pushing it are worrying me

In post 1085, flow trap wrote:
In post 1084, Prism wrote:You're almost there flow trap, let down the walls of your heart and start sharing the inner thoughts.

Do I worry you?
You worry me the most, but I forgot why

In post 1121, flow trap wrote:
In post 328, Prism wrote:I'm good at running interference and setting town up to implode.
I remembered; this is what is worrying me about Prism's FaC push

In post 1145, flow trap wrote:Salsa, I suspect quite, what do you think of that?

VOTE: Quiet

In post 1153, flow trap wrote:Salsa + Spartan: Salsa's TR on Spartan felt like they were not partners here; if Spartan is mafia I don't see Salsa being one as if they were scum their actions felt mildly pockety

Prism + Quiet: While I do think this combo would NK Zoomer, Prism has been at Safe's throat the entire time, and then when Quiet showed up Prism started being helpful to them, so I saw some town emotions in play

Salsa + FaC: Overall neutral but FaC had some questionable actions towards Salsa, but I found Salsa's actions towards FaC felt non-teammate; May NK zoomer

Floo + FaC: Spartan called FaC's vote on Floo odd and I don't think that would be an SvS situation, even if Spartan is mafia making it up, they still can't be partners

Quiet + FaC: I think this team would NK Zoomer otherwise haven't read into this that much tbh

Prism + FaC: If Prism is indeed setting up town to fail in the way I'm thinking, then FaC couldn't be their partner; I lean town on both of them anyways

In post 1176, flow trap wrote:
In post 1174, Prism wrote:
In post 1170, flow trap wrote:I've always seen being diplomatic as a scum tell
I have very, very bad news for you about me as a player lmao

In general I don't think this tell is the worst-particularly if the person is overdoing it or not taking any real stances-but becoming more diplomatic and communicate effectively with others is literally
my entire purpose for playing the game of mafia.
I don't enjoy the puzzle or solving aspect at all.
Guess it's just culture shock, I hope

In post 1196, flow trap wrote:
In post 1193, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 1182, floo wrote:Also I'm in the middle of writing some reads / elaborating on why I scumread Salsabil. It looks like an essay, and I won't be able to finish it until tomorrow.

When my flip will be happened, I want to imagine your face that time, I bet it'll be the most hilarious thing if you're a town but if you're one of the scums, then you're playing really good.
This is something I said as town back when I had no clue what I was doing

In post 1222, flow trap wrote:I'm most likely going to vote between Quiet/Spartan/Salsa Replacement

In post 1240, flow trap wrote:
In post 1238, Spartan117 wrote:what do you think of floos recent emergence with lots more posts and effort than d1?
NAI imo

In post 1247, flow trap wrote:
'Tis, not a laugh of laughter but a laugh of discovery!

As do be it, their behavior has not changed a lick, so in conclusion while consistent; I do say it appears they are trying to cloak their partner in mysterious mystery!

As a psychologist, it could indeed be however unlikely that they are in a Pavlov response to being praised for a response.

In post 1338, flow trap wrote:
In post 1322, Prism wrote:
In post 1302, flow trap wrote:Prism, I apologize for acting like a jerk sometimes; I have decided to trust you can will answer (almost) anything you ask to the best of my ability
It's okay, and I appreciate this.

Personally, I want to know why you don't really want to vote floo today.

That said, my whole point here is that it's a team game. I'm not the only channel/avenue to dialogue through; I don't think talking to scum is the worst thing in the world and there are other town with thoughts as valid as mine. I'm down to talk about any slot you want, and I imagine quiet is as well.
I have a bad habit of just TRing the first person to make a move and then basically ignoring them for the rest of the game...

This is why I decided to ISO them to see if I still want to TR them

They start off with a town vote, but then they play "I don't want to seem suspicious" post which I believe is #77. However; I do find their explanation (351) to be completely valid as I have stated before town shouldn't go out of their way to seem suspicious which is fair as they were indeed going for that POV. Some solid posts between 77 and 351. Their next post (355) worries me; I believe it was brought up how Salsa was suspicious due to taking a joke seriously, I'm getting the same sort of vibe here. In post 348 they reinforce the "town shouldn't go out of their way to be suspicious" idea which I find town as well as this:

In post 438, floo wrote:"Hello I'm Mafia I want to blend in!" - floo
"OK Mafia" - Sal
Sarcastic annoyance=town IMO

States a suspicion on Zoomer in 439 which I will come back to later. Then they have a streak of neutral posts. I found 1005 off, I don't like how they push here , probably it's because they are adding fuel to the FaC+Enchant idea. Back to Zoomer, I found the eating to be a double-edged sword on the town side mafia doesn't usually want to kill their fake scum reads, but on the other hand, they acknowledged that Zoomer was widely TRed so they were aware of it.

Day 2

I found their push overall towny, it does have a few lows, however. Reading it back it is sounding mildly tunnely since they are talking about salsa 90% of their early posts, not that I find that suspicious. The emotional push could go either way as Town determination or Mafia emotional shutdown. I had to skim the latter half of their posts and nothing stood out.

Overall I still find floo town

In post 1361, flow trap wrote:I still stand by my previous POE

In post 1434, flow trap wrote:
In post 1433, fairyprincess69 wrote:you know you're town, so you're going to treat suspicion agaisnt you flippantly/dismissively. there's a sense of entitlement in playing town in which you can't see why people would think you're scummy
I strongly disagree, dismissing suspicions on you is super scummy

Blah blah stuff about Spartan & Quiet

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:32 pm**

In post 1506, Spartan117 wrote:i dont care that you are scum reading me i just want you to express why that is the case so I can better understand you

See 674 & 1434

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:34 pm**

In post 1497, Prism wrote:Part of what makes this so implausible w/ floo is that we have similar backgrounds in chat mafia. The amount of indignant/self-righteous town in chat games is insane and is a huge part of what can make it insufferable to play, it can quickly degrade to ego "I was obviously town you're trash for voting me" slapfights. Mafia quickly learn to do the same. You literally have to play around town doing exactly what Salsabil was doing and worse every other game.

but isn't scumplay in chat mafia very reflexive, emotion driven because of the lack of time required to make good arguments? i can see Salsabil's reaction would look even

more

scummy in that context.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:39 pm**

In post 1333, flow trap wrote:I believe I have said the Enchant TR was a bluff as was the Salsa TR

but according to this post many of your supposed TR's are bluffs, so are those real reads or not?

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:40 pm**

In post 1517, fairyprincess69 wrote:
In post 1333, flow trap wrote:I believe I have said the Enchant TR was a bluff as was the Salsa TR
but according to this post many of your supposed TR's are bluffs, so are those real reads or not?

2#All and you may assume them to be true and I will 100% confirm my Prism & Floo TRs are real

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:42 pm**

I have 15 minutes before I lock in my vote

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:48 pm**

In post 1513, fairyprincess69 wrote:not sure i believe you. you use a ton of forum mafia lingo that i don't think would be accumulated in such a short time frame. i'm not sure if this has any bearing on your alignment, but you're most assuredly a mafia progidy if you're being truthful about your experience

God dammit it's happening again ahaha go look at my profile, see the games I've been playing, and I do not think I'm in any way a prodigy, I just take these games decently seriously and did a fair amount of reading on the mafiascum wiki before I started playing (the wiki is how I found this form, actually; I wanted to learn about strategy after watching some games online).

Also you pick up a LOT of lingo playing a few games. It's mostly in context.

Reaction to flow reads next.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:51 pm**

In post 1516, fairyprincess69 wrote:but isn't scumplay in chat mafia very reflexive, emotion driven because of the lack of time required to make good arguments? i can see Salsabil's reaction would look even more scummy in that context.

It depends on the level of play. Higher level players definitely get better at faking the tone/indignance. Lower level players typically just AFK and vote anyone that isn't them.

You definitely see mafia act indignant/upset, but the amount of town selfrighteousness you see makes it virtually impossible to read into. In a case where those emotions are immediately validated by a replace out I just don't think floo ever takes this approach as town.

With that said, I think the vote today for me is floo. I'm not a town dictator, but I do believe in this read and it's delusional to think that voting someone else makes a statement about the value of teamwork. I'm fallible and fully capable of being wrong. I do think when I'm confident these reads have a high hit %, but I have been wrong before and will be again one day, even if it turns out to not be today.

I think the correct approach is again affirming that I heavily prefer floo for the day. I am again fallible, and this is a Newbie game: I am willing to talk to you about this read as long as it takes, but you should trust your own judgment over just following me.

So floo is my vote for the day. I think this has the advantage of hedging for me being wrong on either of fairy/quiet; both have verbally expressed a willingness to vote floo but not really done so. If you want a second guess, it would be Frederick. But I'm really only confident in floo, and anything else is murky.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:51 pm**

In post 1514, flow trap wrote:Blah blah stuff about Spartan & Quiet

This doesn't explain why you are scumreading myself and quiet?

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:52 pm**

In post 1522, Spartan117 wrote:
In post 1514, flow trap wrote:Blah blah stuff about Spartan & Quiet
This doesn't explain why you are scumreading myself and quiet?

See next post about you and some post in the long one

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:57 pm**

In post 1519, flow trap wrote:I have 15 minutes before I lock in my vote

on who, exactly?

Mafiascum.net

Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!