Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

Alright, I'll take another break.

There is some stuff that I want to take a look at.

[LlamaFluff]

Yall need to post more. Literally if you are town not posting at least once a day that is borderline playing against win condition. Yeah I work a 8-6ish office job (albeit remote for now), but if I *ever* stop posting for more than a day without giving warning, call me out on it. If there arent even enough players around to be able to get a vote pulled off after I got the deadline moved out, that is a massive issue.

@mod

- Can we get a vote count and prods?

[clidd]

Ok, I have many trs/tls. That's a problem.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok, I have many trs/tls. That's a problem.

Those I need someone to explain to me as my best guess would both of those mean the same thing. Meta has probably shifted a bit (took me a minute to even get what lim meant... which is going to take some time for me to get right as I had about 10 years of calling it something else) so if I ever use something that is now dead (think closes may have been chainsawing) let me know.

[clidd]

The picture I have in mind:

{VFP} {Llama} {DGB}
{Lotus} {Gretchen}

-

{Gera}
{Solon}
{Dannflor}

-

{Alice}

{Amélie}

Divided in intensity, being the top town and the bottom scum.

pedit: TR is townread, which means that I'm more sure on the person being town. TL is townlean, which means a weak townread/less sure.

[clidd]

I have no idea what chainsawing is lol.

[clidd]

Btw, I think that there is one scum among my townleans (Gera/Solon/Dann). Not sure who.

[LlamaFluff]

Okay that makes sense. I thought those were three letter acronyms (was guessing town read slight and town lean slight then got confused) and not plural just given how that stuff is always spelled out at work which I deal with daily as construction season is hitting (like RFIs vs RFIS).

Chainsaw is probably an older term but still is very relevant. Its when Player A pushes really hard on Player B, and then Player C comes in and attacks Player A really hard, essentially trying to defend them to a certain extent by attacking the player who is trying to attack them. Chainsaw defense usually in those scenarios links A and C as related (although its perfectly possible for town-C to just be town reading B and trying to stop a push). Pretty much the chainsaw defense is attack the attacker of another player in order to defend them.

[clidd]

I’ve seen this scenario happen quite often, but I didn’t know there was a term for it. I will start to adopt it in my vocabulary, thank you.

[clidd]

I don't know if "TRs" and "TLs" are correct to use, but that's how I learned it when I joined the forum.

[LlamaFluff]

Ive always been taught that words in acronyms get capitalized, if its plural lowercase "s". Chainsaw term can easily be dead by now. As stated at start, I retired as Open Queue List Mod and from playing about three years ago and literally just came back. Still trying to learn any new meta/terms. Its just what I have always called it and what it used to be known as. Could be called something new now, but the tell still somewhat stands.

You reading VFP as town based on what he did or predecessors did? Also what did you gleam if anything over me asking DGB about their N1 result?

[clidd]

Interesting. I don't know what the queues were like in your day, but I hope you keep playing. It will be a good exchange of experiences.

Well, there are more things I wanted to ask you, but I'll leave it to the post game, so we don't lose focus here.

[LlamaFluff]

Also but really my questions about where VFP-town mainly comes from and my question to DGB are legit. I feel like im a couple pieces of a puzzle short so am trying to find them because if I can find the one critical one everything starts falling into place.

[clidd]

You reading VFP as town based on what he did or predecessors did? Also what did you gleam if anything over me asking DGB about their N1 result?

I found its reaction "ok" to your questioning. I didn't know the outcome of his result would matter.

Regarding my read on Vfp, give me a few minutes and I’ll summarize what’s going on in my head.

[LlamaFluff]

You ever heard of DGBs claimed role before? Again checking against if there is a recentcy bias in how setups are made.

[clidd]

You ever heard of DGBs claimed role before? Again checking against if there is a recentcy bias in how setups are made.

Yes, but I never played with before.

It shouldn't be that unusual imo, although I have no experience with the role.

[clidd]

Specifically speaking of the psychologist, of course.

I don't know if the modification is common or not.

[LlamaFluff]

You ever heard of DGBs claimed role before? Again checking against if there is a recentcy bias in how setups are made.

Yes, but I never played with before.

It shouldn't be that unusual imo, although I have no experience with the role.

Fair enough. I am just more used to an era of a weaker investigative role being more of the Tracker, Goon Cop, Motion Detector, Voyeur, type ones. This one makes sense though. Just was wondering if it was commonplace or not for what was claimed.

Night X at least again used to be rare but I can see how its worked... but Even/Odd or X-Shot was very common.

Also I fully expect to not die at night due to so many claims (even if Ame/Alice is scum) but if it does happen you all need to massclaim tomorrow because there is no way all of the claimed PRs are scum and it probably catches someone.

[clidd]

Ok, so from where I stand, VFP and you (Llama) are two slots that reflect me as town due to the way you both have expressed your opinions about the game. I feel a real desire to investigate what is going on and collect information, which basically suggests that you two are starting from an uninformed perspective, that is, town. Dgb is among the set because I concluded, at least atm, that the sum of all its actions after the claim does not seem like a scum withdrawal/frustration but rather a town withdrawal/frustration. Although it's not weighing its opinions about the game in a detailed way, I'm convinced that its play doesn’t make much sense for scum!DGB to make, unless something drastically changes my perception of the slot.

In other words, I'm townreading Vfp based on his play only, without the influence of the predecessor.

[RLotus]

@Lotus - Can you let me know why Alice over Ame? You are pretty much the only solid town read I have so want that insight.

I've only played with Amelie once before briefly and she got limmed day 1 for acting a similar way as this game. I'll try to explain my impression of her. She does this thing where she is hyper critical of people's posts and giving out scum reads in an abrasive sort of way. It often seems like she is rushing to conclusions with little information, which can appear scummy, but I get the impression she is just does not care how people read her and wants to put her opinions out there. I won't say it's a confident scumread, but this wagon does not feel correct to me at the very least.

Alice, idk. I got a little bit of a town vibe from when she read me scum, was promptly corrected that I have a claimed green check, yet she didn't waver in her scum read of me. It seems scum would want to position themself a bit more carefully than that. Maybe she faked that as scum, I can't say I have confidence one way or the other. But yes I prefer Alice to Amelie for today.

[RLotus]

Oh and when amelie was getting ran up I was one of not very many people defending her and she goes ahead and scum reads me for it lol, doesn't seem that smart for scum to do.

[clidd]

You ever heard of DGBs claimed role before? Again checking against if there is a recentcy bias in how setups are made.

Yes, but I never played with before.

It shouldn't be that unusual imo, although I have no experience with the role.

Fair enough. I am just more used to an era of a weaker investigative role being more of the Tracker, Goon Cop, Motion Detector, Voyeur, type ones. This one makes sense though. Just was wondering if it was commonplace or not for what was claimed.

Night X at least again used to be rare but I can see how its worked... but Even/Odd or X-Shot was very common.

Also I fully expect to not die at night due to so many claims (even if Ame/Alice is scum) but if it does happen you all need to massclaim tomorrow because there is no way all of the claimed PRs are scum and it probably catches someone.

I feel like scum would choose to kill you, considering that you are a threat to them bc of your experience with setup. But logically speaking, it makes more sense if one of the PRs dies, so yeah, that's what I'm expecting too.

pedit: Hum.

[clidd]

Lotus, take a look at that Amélie's scumgame that it is on my iso.

You'll probably change your mind.

[RLotus]

I've seen glimpses of towniness from every non-PR claim other than geraintm and even him I don't read particularly scummy. I'm either very wrong or there are more than one scum in the PRs.

[LlamaFluff]

@DGB - Is there anyone that you would not vote today?
@clidd - So you have DGB as solid town, and Dann who did some odd soft claim and then backed off it but still seems to be saying they have a role as more neutral? If you had to guess what is Dann role wise if he is scum?

My problem here is I think there is no way Dann/DGB/Salon are all town. I would back Salon+Dann/DGB before all three are town here.

Looking at what Lotus just said... im fine moving back. Especially as I actually agree that the Ame wagon just doesnt seem fully right (outside of two PR claims actually being scum)

Vote Alice

I think everyone needs to be voting Alice, Ame or DGB right now unless you have a big reason to move elsewhere.