MagnaofIllusion wrote:On the Topic of Cult re the Furc Fiasco
– I’ve seen multiple people make statements that anyone who questioned Furc’s status as Investigator past Page 3 (or some other arbitrary point) and I disagree completely. Furc’s explanation for his actions and general play were scummy and obscuring regarding his alignment. I’m going to suggest what I always think in circumstances – you are more likely to find Cult hiding among those people who are steadfastly assured of Furc’s innocence immediately despite his play (even before rule changes and responses from Percy), since the Cult would know he is an Investigator. ReaperCharlie, VV and VP Baltar are players who come to mind immediately.
Yes and no. You'll be apt to find scum all along the continuum in that case. And hey, lemme ask, you call Furc's behavior scummy and then say that Cult know he's Investigator. So which is he, or what?
Seacore wrote:Fate wrote:BECAUSE I AM AN EVILMASTERMIND THAT SCUM FEAR AND KILL N1.
*CACKLES*
NOW HURRY UP AND GET THIS WAGON OFF YOU SEACORE SO WE CAN MOVE ON TO SERIOUS BUSINESS.
I'm trying, but people seem to need more convincing. Maybe I should die and be revealled as town, then people will stop voting for me.
I'm going to move on to RC as well though, maybe a few more prods will actually get an answer to the question he's been dodging for a while.
UNVOTE: AV VOTE: RC
Another thing which doesn't make me reconsider my Seacore read. Vote on a wagon excused as vote for reactions (don't we teach people in Newbie games that if you say a vote is for reactions it loses it's effectiveness? Given that, why would Seacore say so if that was his intention?). And all of a sudden go to earnest defender/explainer of the wagon to SpyreX?
Seacore wrote:3) He asked a "confused" question about how cultists work that a) should have been easy to check by going to the OP and b)involved a level of ignorance that is unlikely. In short, he claimed to believe cultists could just do ritual like a normal mafia NK, that the fetish was unrelated. This doesn't explain why there was no night kill N0. It just doesn't add up.
Eh, this is a nulltell - or more accurately, unless we have more information we can't definitively say the ignorance was faked or scummy. The things I've seen people NOT fake are astounding. Please refer to zoroaster in /Invitational Pick Your Poison 5 for why I feel this, but. The best thing to do with this information is file it away in case we somehow get our hands on information which might shed light on it.
That said RC isn't being cooperative/behaving as he should for maximum pro-Town efficiency in response to the wagon on him.
AurorusVox wrote:I can see what you mean about ISO#38, but I disagree with your analysis of
why
ISO#46 is scummy. If his #46 has scummy motivations, I don't think it's what you're seeing, because he called Hito scummy for IMPLYING he wanted to volunteer rather than saying it explicitly himself, i.e. he's accusing Hito of trying to allow someone else to suggest it to avoid seeming suspicious. If it's scum motivated, then he's explicitly volunteering himself in order to not be accused of hypocrisy - he hasn't acted hypocritically.
I say "if it has" because I'm not sure how serious he was about putting himself forwards.
As for him being manipulative...now that you mention it, I'm worried that he got on board with my Baby Spice vote in order to manipulate me into thinking he was town. What I mean is, at the time, I was under a lot of pressure from SpyreX, and when RC said "this post is win" it made me pretty pleased that someone had seen something good that I had done and I hadn't considered that scum would do that (my thought being scum would fuel my mislynch). But if he's scum, then by that action alone, he definitely got me on his side until now.
You good, incisive, introspective Townie. We could use ten more like you. About VV's RC case I'm of two minds - on the one hand I agree with AV above, on the other I don't think that 'daring' to attack Hito is necessarily a good scum move, even (given that sticking with obvTown Hito is a good way to not rock the boat and to get associated with Hito in everyone's minds - there could be scum motivations thar too, of course, but not enough to go on as to which side of the spectrum it's coming from), on the other, yeah, it's weird and I'm not pleased he did that either. On the third hand, saying that VV was scummy for trying to cool down some of Furc's excessive spamming, no matter how obvTown Furc happen to be,
does
feel wrong.
Note to self: Don't forget to check back with
Post1056.
MagnaofIllusion
please stop responding to anything about Furc being such a horrid VI that you wanted to off him immediately. Here's a question for you: why didn't you stalk him last Night, in that case, eh? In any case, you're wrong and I still find that initial play scummy. Thanks for reminding me.
MagnaofIllusion wrote:ISO 4 – What in the hell are you trying to say here? Back there I posited that Furc could be passing of his own crafting of a Fetish on El Goo (which would cause El Goo to hear noise) as a Ward (which would also cause El Goo to hear noise). You attack that states the Ward would prevent a Fetish is factually correct but doesn’t even apply to my argument.
In which case Furc just threw away his team's ability to off El Goosuki or throw their slot an extra Insanity because they CANNOT use that Fetish without proving that Furc was lying Cult (because you can't craft a Fetish of someone you have a Fetish of, so any Fetish sent or used to Ritual El Goos would
have
to originate with Furc-Cult per this theory). BRILLIANT explanation there.
Furcolow wrote:Plum - I figured she was town, but she is not taking control like i've seen her do as town
Some differences from the game you saw me in include the magnitude, speed, and density of this game, and also the fact that for part of last week I was concentrating on securing a scum win in a relatively stressful situation.
SpyreX, you worry me here.
RC is now being desperately anti-Town. Nice losing the mark of Townie there.
LB's catchup post is useless = bad news.
Trilo is also being stupid about Benmage even being a viable lynch from the trying-to-go-Murderer perspective. It's pretty clear that declaring you Stalked Night 1, and whom you stalked, is bad Murderer play and with relatively little Town power devoted to the project we can keep enough basic tabs on him to prevent this biting us in the back even if he would think to try anything funny.
Furpants_Tom wrote:Hey kunkstar7, what do you think of Plum?
Hell, what do
you
think of me???
MagnaofIllusion wrote:Trilobyte’s 1085 is my exact problem with Seacore. Advocating lynching someone who MIGHT be a murderer 5 days from now doesn’t seem like a very solid tactic.
It's a handy way to push true mislynches now, though. And if you could get away with using this as your scumhunting technique as scum (which certainly makes it easier because you can hunt without implicating your buddies while still doing some sincere hunting or whatever, if that's the way you work) and without getting undue attention/receiving mixed, not negative, reviews for it . . . why not? It's
inherently
in scum's best interest to press lynches on Investigators, likely or not to go Murderer, right now. Anything that can be a front for that is a potential scum tactic.
hitogoroshi wrote:Seacore wrote:I think you'll find that's completely unacceptable.
Whether people believe you are town, investigator or whatever, enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable.
On top of this, you want to not tell us what your insanity is? That is definitely unacceptable. You will openly declare which one it is, so we can track it.
What's unacceptable about the confirmed townie robbing graves? That's awesome and wonderful. Seacore, it really sounds like you're trying to call up a deep well of suspicion on Furc that doesn't exist. I don't like the weaselly "enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable." Which people where? You're extremely careful to distance yourself from these views. "Hey, I'm fine with you robbing graves, but
I think you'll find
that
enough people agree...
". If you STILL want to call Furc cult or murderer, do so. If you don't, don't try to strong-arm him out of helping the town with vague references to some fierce
other
.
That being said, Furc, I am curious why you don't want to claim insanities. I'm cool with not getting insanities from you (and only you) but I'd at least like a reason.
THIS RIGHT HERE YO.
Feysal wrote:I've been thinking about Baby Spice and xvart. My reason is that they both claimed to have warded MoI, and I consider the odds of them both lying to be minimal. Ward would be dangerous to false claim unless you knew your claimed target was warded by someone else.
Exactly. Doubt they both lied, of course (that's one person they can't kill or send a Fetish to this game unless they want to implicate two members of the Cult) but the odds of
one of them lying
is worth considering, especially given that Ward is not an action a scumbag is likely to take (especially on an Investigator, but claiming on a Cultbuddy might have other bad implications for them) - but they'd probably want to avoid all the claimed Warders from Night 0 being Investigators - makes for bad news if we get to the point of process of elimination, you see. That's just one big red mark all over xvart, given he claimed Ward on MoI afterwards, but I'm going to hold out for a little more info until I can make a full analysis of the situation there. It's not worth acting on Day 1 when we can say things with a lot more certainty in a Day or two from now.
ArorusVox wrote:(a) some cult not fake-claiming ward on their craft fetish target
(b) some cult claiming to have heard noise when they didn't
(c) some wannabe murderers on the loose
Mostly (a) - again, Cult almost certainly want to avoid claiming Ward on their targets of Craft Fetish. Augmented by a little bit of (b) and (c).
hitogoroshi wrote:Curious what Plum thinks about the case on RC.
RC is playing too anti-Town for me and has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth, mostly for avoiding the questions aimed at him. The other arguments do little if anything for me; they're mostly nulltells as I see it. If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it until he answered the questions properly and shaped up a little in the play-pro-Town department, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me - much the same way SpyreX worries me. But he's not among my top picks for scum.
Feysal wrote:This goes back to post #680 and the posts that follow. Plum mentioned two players warding the same target, but she was really vague about what she thought it meant. When asked whether it had something to do with Baby Spice, she said it was more likely to be the flip side. I've never seen her follow up on this, despite saying she would read on Baby Spice. Basically I wonder if she has been avoiding the subject. So, her early posts look very much town, but her continuing suspicion of Seacore looks bad. The thought of Baby Spice and Plum being cult together has crossed my mind. Baby Spice is definitely more suspicious, but if she turns out to be cult, Plum could well be another.
I meant that it had to do with Baby Spice and xvart claiming Ward on the same person - but that it implicated xvart a heck of a lot more because he claimed it miles after Baby Spice did. That's what I meant by the flip side.
ReaperCharlie wrote:... Apparently now you think that Seacore is town? And not just marginally town, but now a shining townie with a good case on somebody else? Someone you trust so thoroughly that you will now commence sheepage on his case without even doing your own ISO?
Oh READ, why don't you - AV was saying that surprisingly, despite his bad feelings towards Seacore, he found Seacore's summaries of &c. with your wagon enlightening. That's not scummy, having someone you suspect Day 1 say things you agree with despite your misgivings towards that player.
I keep confusing Trilobite and Triglav.
FOSes of any sort ping my scumdar. Soometimes it's meta null, but STILL dislike Furpants Tom going all 'well Imma do an ISO' on the RC wagon. Smells like something overcompensating on justification.
Feysal is scummy because he's churning out stuff without doing much . . . hunting. By page 55 he's still stuck on Baby Spice and me, for the mediocre reasons I addressed above - has nothing since then perturbed the fellow, or his he faking scumhunting? Hell, he doesn't vote for ages and ages, despite posting walls upon walls of text. Doesn't comment on the ongoing RC wagon even after it's summarized to him until he does an ISO quite a few posts later? This is just ringing alarm bells, you see.
totallynotmafia wrote:After reading the inital reasons for the wagon on RC I'm 50/50 as to whether he is scum or just lazy town making himself an easy target.
50/50 is pretty decent odds, you know. You have better odds on anyone else, or what?
