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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:57 am
by Xtoxm
I'm feeling uncomfortable about it too because RB looks town to me and Kison looks scum.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:58 am
by Xtoxm
But the outside information available suggests it is the other way around.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:03 am
by Rogueben
I doubt this is the case, but if you've played funny buggers with us Guardian then I'm going to be a sad man.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:04 am
by Xtoxm
Rogueben wrote:I doubt this is the case, but if you've played funny buggers with us Guardian then I'm going to be a sad man.
What do you mean?

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:06 am
by Xtoxm
The main reason of doubt related to your kill failures is Link being an incompetant vig doesn't really make sense.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:20 am
by Kison
Rogueben's Tapdance

ImageImage

Rogueben, I admire your aura of calmness. But the points you're raising don't hold...
Rogueben wrote:I have been thinking about this and the only explanation I can come up with is that Kison is telling the truth about the condition in every aspect except for the fact that I am scum.
The condition does not state that Link is scum. In fact, it doesn't really imply it other than the fact that your actions combined with those of the Triforce can allow for scum to win by default.
Rogueben wrote:This means that scum win if I target all three members of the triforce and at least one of the triforce target me then scum will win.
Yes.
Rogueben wrote:Actually thinking about that it also makes sense as to why Kison didn't want to say what it was. If he did then the condition would be voided because then I would make sure that it wasn't.
1) I am Town. I withheld this information because I not only do not know whether or not you know what this condition is, but because it will not prevent this condition from being met if you are scum. Narrowing down the scope to you being scum by default only reinforced the decision. My roleclaim benefited you because it gave you insight into not only who I was(Triforce) but my links from Night One on Shaft.ed.

2) If I was scum, then your claimed night targets would let me know that this condition ALREADY IS VOIDED. Think about it... These are your claimed night targets :

1) Rogueben -> Paradoxombie
2) Rogueben -> hasdgfas
3) Rogueben -> Kison

First, if I am scum, then I would know you are telling the truth about these targets because you'd have no reason to lie as Town. Secondly, Xyzzy was lynched Day Two. Since your previously claimed night targets did not mention him, then I, as scum, would know that this condition was already voided because he can no longer be targeted. The same goes for Shaft.ed after he was killed.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:25 am
by Kison
Xtoxm, I don't know if this is the case, but if you think my moments of sarcasm are what make me scummy, then I suggest you take a look at Mafia 69, where I was a pain in the neck, but Town to the T. Just the way I am. Can't help it. :)

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:57 am
by Xtoxm
I don't know...I often find it hard to say exactly why. It could be I guess, but I don't think that's the type of thing that would affect Xtoxm-town's scumdar...

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:58 am
by Xtoxm
Tbh, it really looks like this is heading to an RB lynch.

I'll let Law add anything he wants to say.

He apparantly has more info than me too.

Be interested to find all the wierd mechanics of this game...

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:52 am
by Guardian
Vote Count 34


The TV Reads:
Rogueben[2] (Kison)
Kison[1] (Rogueben)
Xtoxm[1] (Xtoxm)

3 to lynch

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:20 pm
by Rogueben
Xtoxm wrote:
Rogueben wrote:I doubt this is the case, but if you've played funny buggers with us Guardian then I'm going to be a sad man.
What do you mean?
I just hope that Guardian hasn't been a bastard in some way. For example me being an incompetent vig (this is mere speculation). I see this as unlikely but I will be sad if it's the case.
Xtoxm wrote:The main reason of doubt related to your kill failures is Link being an incompetant vig doesn't really make sense.
I agree with this. This is the main reason why I've been confused every morning.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:17 pm
by Xtoxm
Um, that was a point in your favor...

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:09 pm
by Rogueben
I understand that if I am an incompetent vig that makes more sense in terms of what's happened at nights. But I don't like including roles like incompetent vig's in setups.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:30 pm
by Lawrencelot
Xtoxm
, do not vote, please! Let me make the call, and help me think of all things we know.

I think
Rogueben
is scum, but I will ask
Kison
one last thing, and this is big for all:

Shaft.ed
knew of a town win: all three parts have to target Link on a night, and then town wins. He thought it was weird that
Xyzzy
did not know of this, and
Kison
does not know of it as well (so he says).
Kison
, can you
explain
this?
Xtoxm
, what do you think of this? This is also why I saved
Rogueben
, by the way.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:47 pm
by Rogueben
Was that in both you and shaft.ed's role-pm or did shaft.ed tell you that?

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:23 pm
by Lawrencelot
Rogueben wrote:Was that in both you and shaft.ed's role-pm or did shaft.ed tell you that?
He told me. I am not from
Zelda
.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:14 pm
by Rogueben
Hmm. I think this a point in favor of Kison scum actually. Had Kison not been scum then a mass claim would have caused the town to win because shaft.ed could have just said his town win requirement and that night all three would have targeted me. However with one of the triforce as scum, that would not have allowed the town to win through a mass name claim.

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:08 am
by Lawrencelot
Rogueben wrote:Hmm. I think this a point in favor of Kison scum actually. Had Kison not been scum then a mass claim would have caused the town to win because shaft.ed could have just said his town win requirement and that night all three would have targeted me. However with one of the triforce as scum, that would not have allowed the town to win through a mass name claim.
But
xyzzy
did not know of all this.

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:50 am
by Kison
Lawrencelot wrote:
Shaft.ed
knew of a town win: all three parts have to target Link on a night, and then town wins. He thought it was weird that
Xyzzy
did not know of this, and
Kison
does not know of it as well (so he says).
Kison
, can you
explain
this?
Xtoxm
, what do you think of this? This is also why I saved
Rogueben
, by the way.
From my perspective the answer is pretty obvious. You're saying the Town's win condition is that all 3 aspects of the Triforce target Link? Xyzzy and Shafted are Town. I know I am Town. That means we could have broken the game with a simple mass claim. But Xyzzy apparently didn't get the same info, and I have a huge disincentive for role claiming. Top that off with the fact that from my own perspective at least, Shaft.ed could have been scum trying to trigger a scum win condition. I'd be hesitant following his lead without knowing he was Town(which was not possible until Day Three).

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:57 am
by Xtoxm
unvote vote Kison


Mass claim D1 would have resulted in a town victory N1, if all 3 were town.

Lynch Law to confirm he's telling the truth.

But there's something probably not completely right with that idea...

That vote's mainly to give Law the power to choose, as he requests.

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:09 am
by Lawrencelot
Kison wrote:
Lawrencelot wrote:
Shaft.ed
knew of a town win: all three parts have to target Link on a night, and then town wins. He thought it was weird that
Xyzzy
did not know of this, and
Kison
does not know of it as well (so he says).
Kison
, can you
explain
this?
Xtoxm
, what do you think of this? This is also why I saved
Rogueben
, by the way.
From my perspective the answer is pretty obvious. You're saying the Town's win condition is that all 3 aspects of the Triforce target Link? Xyzzy and Shafted are Town. I know I am Town. That means we could have broken the game with a simple mass claim. But Xyzzy apparently didn't get the same info, and I have a huge disincentive for role claiming. Top that off with the fact that from my own perspective at least, Shaft.ed could have been scum trying to trigger a scum win condition. I'd be hesitant following his lead without knowing he was Town(which was not possible until Day Three).
So you think the town win was true? There was a way for town to win, and for scum too? Why would the mod tell
Shaft.ed
to let
Rogueben
be his aim, while that is good for the scum win?

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:16 am
by Xtoxm
Rogueben wrote:I understand that if I am an incompetent vig that makes more sense in terms of what's happened at nights. But I don't like including roles like incompetent vig's in setups.
I completely disagree.

I voted maximum bastardry.

I think it would be quite fun :P

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:22 am
by Kison
Xyzzy wrote:But there's something probably not completely right with that idea...
The threat of roleblockers, which we wouldn't know whether or not exist by that time.
Lawrencelot wrote:So you think the town win was true? There was a way for town to win, and for scum too? Why would the mod tell
Shaft.ed
to let
Rogueben
be his aim, while that is good for the scum win?
I don't know if it's true, Lawrencelot. Obviously I believe Shaft.ed was told of it. I was told of a scum condition. Could both be red herrings? I guess.

Your question : Why would Guardian give a mutually beneficial requirement?

1) I don't know
2) Maybe because it doesn't make sense
3) Maybe because it causes confusion and chaos
4) Maybe because the Triforce -> Link requirement is the easiest part of the scum condition to complete.

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:22 am
by Kison
5) "I voted maximum bastardry." - xtoxm

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:25 am
by Lawrencelot
Not for last posts of
Kison
, but
Vote: Rogueben
. Good game.

If I'm wrong,
sorry Xtoxm
.