Scum probably has roles that harm us if we don’t have a Governor.
Given the fact that I’m Town that has an opposite Governor ability.
Can I like... suggest playing conservatively instead of outguess the mod
Can I suggest actually using a Brian and realizing that Governor is available for a reason instead of trying to prevent town from gaining an advantage.
I was going to force people to make a choice so that we have almost another days worth of info to go over.
Especially when I thought scum wouldn't be able to hide in the no govs, I thought I was forcing a choice between someone who wanted it and someone who didn't.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:17 pm
by Formerfish
And if I got it then I trade a gladiator role for a governor and it's an even trade for me.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:18 pm
by Formerfish
I have asked the mod a question because I thought it was going to work differently and it would suck to use my 1 shot to still no gov...
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:36 pm
by Flavor Leaf
Y’all, it’s November 9th, it’s my birthday.
Give me the Governor shot.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 pm
by Donempire
Im very out of the loop on this, i only know that we're electing a governor
I dont think we should elect a governor at this point when there really isnt anything concrete to base reads off off (and i havent been able to read all of it either)
` VOTE: No governor
I was going to force people to make a choice so that we have almost another days worth of info to go over.
Especially when I thought scum wouldn't be able to hide in the no govs, I thought I was forcing a choice between someone who wanted it and someone who didn't.
Ah kk, that makes sense.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:46 pm
by EspressoPatronum
VOTE: FormerFish
I want someone to have the governor power + FFs explanation of his challenge sounds towny.
I could be persuaded to vote for TSE, but I can't see myself voting for chenn..
Scum probably has roles that harm us if we don’t have a Governor.
Given the fact that I’m Town that has an opposite Governor ability.
Can I like... suggest playing conservatively instead of outguess the mod
Can I suggest actually using a Brian and realizing that Governor is available for a reason instead of trying to prevent town from gaining an advantage.
Scum probably has roles that harm us if we don’t have a Governor.
Given the fact that I’m Town that has an opposite Governor ability.
Can I like... suggest playing conservatively instead of outguess the mod
Can I suggest actually using a Brian and realizing that Governor is available for a reason instead of trying to prevent town from gaining an advantage.
I can't think of any good reason for it to stay with how I understand how it works, but wanted confirmation that I wasn't being dumb. You're all great <3
Like, literally, if you give me the governor we also lynch me D1. It's a low impact role in the hands of town which is best used to trap scum quickhammering in MYLO. A strat that only works if no one knows you have it.
In the hands of scum, however, it means LYLO comes a day earlier.
We're throwing the governor shot in the garbage, where it belongs.
Town
In post 1533, Donempire wrote:Im very out of the loop on this, i only know that we're electing a governor
I dont think we should elect a governor at this point when there really isnt anything concrete to base reads off off (and i havent been able to read all of it either)
` VOTE: No governor
I don’t like this post.
In post 1261, Creature wrote:______________________VOTE: No governor_______________________________VOTE: No governor
_______________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor_______________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_______________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor_______________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
____VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor_______VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
____VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor_______VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_______VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_______VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_______________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_______________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
______________________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
______________________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
______________________________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_____________________________________VOTE: No governorVOTE: No governor
_____________________________________________VOTE: No governor
This is Null, but I’ll lean Town has I dong think Creature would spam this as scum.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:48 pm
by Bingle
In post 1500, Formerfish wrote:Is there anyone who's said they definitely don't want it?
Yo.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:56 pm
by Bingle
Not quoting Nero's post to keep the walls minimal, but there are a couple things to address.
1: I took 386 as a policy "lynch cause cult" list given that it specifies D2. Which... I'm fine with people disincentivizing cultists from recruiting me, and don't see a need to interact with.
2: I do think wooper slipped not cult by talking about that. Because it's nonsense. And then when people ignored him digging into it he didn't let it drop but looked for a reason and found one that was also nonsense. I don't see why wooper cult would come up with Nonsense A in the first place, but it could be argued that that was a fake slip to cement the idea that wooper isn't cult. When wooper came back with what was tantamount to "I get it! People rolled their eyes when I said the hoofbeats were zebras it was because they were giraffes all along!" after no one engaged, it was clearly unintentional.
I'll elaborate on the Gamma read when I have the time to polish my reads list. Same with highlighting the differences I see between your arguments and BBs.
Could you walk me through the mental gymnastics here?
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:01 pm
by Bingle
In post 1517, Formerfish wrote:When we think about adventure stories one of the first races to be demagogued and maligned are the Orcs, and it is true that in most cases those accusations were correct and they were the ones perpetrating the evil done unto the rest of the realm.
However, there have been many times in the history of the word that speak of Orcs who have turned their backs upon the warmongering of their ancestors and set out on their own to make names for themselves. And when that expression is being used in this case it is meant literally. Orcs have no need for names and in their culture they do not use them. You know who your Alpha is and you know what rung you are in the pecking order by birth. Some have grown to hate and despise the path they are upon and leave all they have known behind to find fame and fortune one way or the other. Many become mercenaries selling their skills to the ones who will supply them with all they never had at home. Others become heros, wandering this way and that trying to undo all the damage the Orc legacy carries.
The most successful are the ones who instead of rejecting their past and the inherent violence that is so intrinsic to the natural way of the Orc, these few embrace that rage. They harness the fire that burns inside of them for the atrocities that both sides have wrought upon each other over thousands of years, and for what? An age old feud that not a single living soul can explain beyond Orcs are evil and must be killed. These few have the ability to show exactly why children wake up in sweats during nightmares, diving into the deepest and darkest part of each of us. They show us in an ugly mirror just what kind of evil ugliness can live inside a person, we make them everything we hate about ourselves, and for this we love to see them fight for us. Better than any bare knuckle match, more real than a back alley brawl. These Gladiators have names that ring bells across lands that haven't even been discovered yet, word traveling faster than foot or sail.
Formerfish, TrueSoulEnergy, Chennisden, Let our names call out to the Gods and seek favor from them, for tonight one of us dines in hell.
Challange: TrueSoulEnergy and Chennisden
You spelled "Challenge" wrong, fishy.
Also, well done. You managed to use another antitown voting shenanigans power when it would be least harmful to town.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:03 pm
by Bingle
In post 1529, Formerfish wrote:Especially when I thought scum wouldn't be able to hide in the no govs, I thought I was forcing a choice between someone who wanted it and someone who didn't.
Also, well done. You managed to use another antitown voting shenanigans power when it would be least harmful to town.
Fuck. Still count as installment #1?
And thanks, that's kinda what I was hoping for. Along with forcing people to make a choice, which is how this should have worked imo.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:11 pm
by Vorkuta
Now I see how the American election system works firsthand
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:22 pm
by Bingle
In post 1531, Formerfish wrote:I have asked the mod a question because I thought it was going to work differently and it would suck to use my 1 shot to still no gov...
No it wouldn't. Gladiator, like governor, is a BAD role. It's negative utility in town's hands and Really Powerful in scum's hands. You did a good by ripping that bandaid off, confirming your role, and making yourself a useless scumkill or cult recruit.
As to explain why TSE's Governor is good for town argument is nonsense, let's examine the cases:
Case 1: It goes to town. Town is incentivized to use it early so as not to let it be useful for cult. This means we lose a lynch early, derailing the momentum of a day when we have a ton of people alive and our main concern is trimming chaff to reach a real lynch pool.
Case 2: It goes to group scum. Said group scum can use it to softframe a townie on their flip, keep a scum PR alive for a day, etc. Functionally, this is trading LYLO being a day early for a chance that cult suicides into the scum.
Case 3: It goes to cult. Cult can use the governor just as effectively as scum can, and for the same effect.
Case 4: It goes to a 3p. Ironically, if Cult dies to targeting an SK this is probably the most protown use of the governor, because an SK has no reason to use it.
Case 5: Scum has an ability like TSE's which allows for quicklynching at some point. First of all, that's an insane amount of scum power. Balancing it with a public vote D1 for a bad ability isn't reasonable, so there are likely other counterbalances in play if scum does have a power that strong. Additionally, if scum has an ability like that, they can just not use it until after they've killed the governor. Or use it AND the governor to their advantage if they get the governor.
Case 6: The role is designed to make some negative utility, such as hated, provable. Which... does roughly jackall for us.
tl;dr - Regardless of the fact that governor could potentially have a town usage, it is still vastly more powerful for scum than for town in a setup where even if a player is mod confirmed to be town today they become untrustworthy as soon as we go to the night phase.
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:23 pm
by Bingle
In post 1546, Vorkuta wrote:Now I see how the American election system works firsthand
Nah, that's on D7 when somehow the D1 lynch is voting for "Insert Politician you don't like (Or do like because let's be honest, they're all crooked)" 6 times.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
