Mafiascum.net

In post 1521, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1516, Servant Archer wrote:To add to 1514 from Caster, I would again point out that Moon Cancer's very first post in the game was to vote for Saber to get the master and also listed Berserker and both as Assassin scummy

And if they had gotten chosen this would have stuck out if they no longer existed in the actual game thread.

Everyone who pushed for saber would have been looked at closer so if scum could get town to make this push, why wouldn't they.

Also why wouldn't they opt to wait before making the push under this pretense

It is frustrating that you are chiming in on this, without taking the time to look at the post in question. It feels like you are just trying to be a contrarian, instead of actually trying to engage with the discussion properly.

Caster voted in post 52
Beast voted in 53
I voted in 56 (later unvoted)


If Saber won, and stumped as scum, then Moon would not have been instantly linked to that. Moon waited long enough to join into the discussion, that they had the cover to vote for either Assassin or Saber without being the first person looked at if that person ended up being scum, and they chose Saber.

Like, moon very clearly waited until other people were on that wagon before they joined.

In post 1524, Servant Ruler wrote:I'm not sure but if scum did campaign for it I would look to assassin firdt I think.

The first few pages had Saber campaign it immediately and only backed down when it was obvious that they weren't gojnf to be the choice

I think the way Saber went about it wasn't very graceful and if scum debated who should get it, if they decided that someone on the team shouls get it, scum wouldnt be so clumsy about it nor would come right oht the gate with jt

Pedit: I never said beleive everyone. What i said is that Saber has marks of genuineness and I believe saber is truthclaimjng servant name

We can just agree to disagree I guess.

I found Saber's way of campaining more likely to be scum. I still think that this is the exact angle that the scum team would come up with, if they thought they could win on a mech based campaign:

In post 51, Servant Saber wrote: My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

In post 1524, Servant Ruler wrote:I'm not sure but if scum did campaign for it I would look to assassin firdt I think.

The first few pages had Saber campaign it immediately and only backed down when it was obvious that they weren't gojnf to be the choice

I think the way Saber went about it wasn't very graceful and if scum debated who should get it, if they decided that someone on the team shouls get it, scum wouldnt be so clumsy about it nor would come right oht the gate with jt

Pedit: I never said beleive everyone. What i said is that Saber has marks of genuineness and I believe saber is truthclaimjng servant name

Also, like... this is an instance response to my post, that displays a grasp of both Saber's and Assassin's campaign for Master day 1, without a need to look back over it, or think about how they felt about it

In post 1443, Servant Ruler wrote:It is very hard to get into this game and to understand what's going on

In post 1518, Servant Ruler wrote:That post is in regards to reading ehat came before me and in between times I'm not around. I can get opinions from what happens when I am around

I have a policy to not take a person's posts or opinions seriously while they're self-voting.

ok

VOTE: lancer

It's supposed to make people look anyway.

I said I'm going to bat for saber and I'm not playing around

How would your stance change if it was revealed that saber was telling the truth about something?

Very little, if at all. I'm not even sure if anyone wants to eliminate Saber on the basis of whether or not they think Saber is lying, but rather in the way they went about (and are going about) things.

I am loathe to reconsider my town reads on both Caster and Ruler.

I read for Saber's posts to see the interactions between them and Moon Caster and I find it largely a wash. Posts 235 and 472 gave me a sense of TMI. Can one buddy from just a naked reads list without direct interaction? That would also not be my first conclusion say, were my name up there. I'd be thinking "hey maybe this person has some cool and interesting things to say". The follow-up reads list has but one scum read, and it is Moon. It does not say why Moon is scummy in any detail.

The vote of Moon Caster, however, is well placed: 3rd on a budding wagon. The first half of the reason behind it is plausible enough and shared by others (personally not me), unsure about the "throw mud and see what sticks part". Maybe? 238 I suppose qualifies.

I'm still likely to vote Saber. However, I'm once again having trouble seeing anyone else coming close to being particularly scummy. A problem for another day perhaps.

In post 1529, Servant Ruler wrote:ok

VOTE: lancer

It's supposed to make people look anyway.

I said I'm going to bat for saber and I'm not playing around

What is the crux of the argument for Saber being town?

In post 1525, Servant Archer wrote:

In post 1521, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1516, Servant Archer wrote:To add to 1514 from Caster, I would again point out that Moon Cancer's very first post in the game was to vote for Saber to get the master and also listed Berserker and both as Assassin scummy

And if they had gotten chosen this would have stuck out if they no longer existed in the actual game thread.

Everyone who pushed for saber would have been looked at closer so if scum could get town to make this push, why wouldn't they.

Also why wouldn't they opt to wait before making the push under this pretense

It is frustrating that you are chiming in on this, without taking the time to look at the post in question. It feels like you are just trying to be a contrarian, instead of actually trying to engage with the discussion properly.

Caster voted in post 52
Beast voted in 53
I voted in 56 (later unvoted)

Moon Cancer voted for Saber in post 226

If Saber won, and stumped as scum, then Moon would not have been instantly linked to that. Moon waited long enough to join into the discussion, that they had the cover to vote for either Assassin or Saber without being the first person looked at if that person ended up being scum, and they chose Saber.

Like, moon very clearly waited until other people were on that wagon before they joined.

This argument seems convincing to me

In post 1457, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1450, Servant Archer wrote:

Who do you think is making the bad faith argument?

I've already made it clear who i think it is and i think my issue with alter is a difference in views.

I'm also not a fan of lancers positipn around alter

What's this supposed to mean, exactly?

In post 1468, Servant Caster wrote:You should think about my motivations and my play rather than and whether it makes sense for scum!me to play in such a manner.

(1) Does it make sense for scum me to disappear in the elimination phase when the IC says they hard TR me? Why would I not want to influence him in the wrong direction if I am scum?

(2) Does it make sense for scum me to not fight for being master but instead fight the person who has no real opposition?

I don't deny that I haven't really scum-hunted very much post Berserker flip,

There's something demotivating about spending so much energy on a game and being utterly wrong.

I told you I wanted to just kick off my shoes and be carried. That's still true.

I don't have trouble faking scum-hunting when I'm mafia. It's actually fairly trivial and easy for me to do. I have done everything in this game because I believe it is in the best interests of our town. If you disagree you can feel free to push through this mis-elim, that is fine with me.

I think you're capable of more as town and the fact that I haven't seen it is what concerns me. The self-defense that you "wouldn't play like this" as scum are just WIFOM. The question is not whether you play differently, it's whether your behavior makes more sense from scum or town. And right now I'm not seeing much town.

In post 1469, Servant Ruler wrote:"Avenger has to be scum becaue that is not how I would use a gladiate so thats not how town woild"

Is literallt the entirety of the argument that two of you are making

That's an exceptionally reductive take that completely ignores the circumstances of how the gladiate took place. And as I HAVE ALREADY CLARIFIED, my take there was made in the heat of the moment, where I was frustrated by 1. Our elected IC altslipping and having to be replaced 2. A sudden gladiate out of nowhere with little warning 3. The fact that this duel was interrupting a wagon on a scumread of mine. This is not all entirely rational. But it is how I felt at the time.

I have already said Avenger is not among my preferred vote targets now that I've had more time to think about it. You should be aware of this.

In post 1495, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1480, Servant Lancer wrote:I've already mentioned my experience with mastina is very limited.

But its enough for you to figure out she was the one behind the slot?

In post 1496, Servant Ruler wrote:VOTE: lancer i think this is overdue

In post 1497, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1495, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1480, Servant Lancer wrote:I've already mentioned my experience with mastina is very limited.

But its enough for you to figure out she was the one behind the slot?

From her firsr post while I'm at it

Er, what? How is recognizing someone's posting style supposed to be scummy?

In post 1503, Servant Ruler wrote:Because scum hardbussing in that manner defintely hasn't happened before.

I also defintely can't pull games up to show that it has happened before.

In post 1504, Servant Ruler wrote:Why is that the almighty town indicator for you?

You could have been bussing moon cancer for a variety of reasons. From what i have read, alot of his posts were null, non existant, coasting and its the perfect bus for a buddy to get behimd on. I don't think your stance against that is indicative of anything

This atrocious logic. Anyone who voted Moon Cancer have been bussing. What makes you think Lancer is likely to have done so? It can't just involve you not liking how they're talking to you. Lancer was probably the player who was most vocally critical of Moon Cancer and applied the most pressure there, when others were far more willing to give the slot a pass. Lancer also jumped ship from the E-2 Saber wagon to go back to Moon Cancer - if you believe Saber to be town, isn't such a move strongly town-indicate for Lancer? Why do you assume they're bussing? What posts can you point to and say, "This looks like bussing"? I want specifics.

In post 1473, Servant Caster wrote:

In post 951, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:VOTE: Saber
Well, that is easy. Thanks for claiming scum.

In post 1024, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:

In post 1021, Servant Assassin wrote:The last, and only, specific reason to scumread Alter came from post 238. I don't find it convincing. How has that read matured over time and what specific posts can you point to as to support your conclusions?

That read has not changed. It is fully based on the early posts on Alter Ego having more evasive words in their posts than any normal townie. And no post of Alter Ego after that time has caused me to reconsider.

I think we have gotten everything we could have before the first elimination. We should move on.

^

Do we have thoughts on whether Moon Cancer posts this about Saber!Scum?

Do have thoughts on it?

I'm not really particularly convinced Saber is scum and a lot of the reasoning being thrown around is thin at best - not making sense and having delusional self-confidence aren't really scummy, and the idea that we have to elim someone just because they've claimed and some people are scumreading them is lazy. Wanting an info-flip based on master phase wagons seems like a fairly tenuous concept - if Saber flips town, what exactly do we learn?

But all that being said, they aren't a townread of mine, and some of their statements about Moon Cancer are fairly questionable, as Assassin highlights, so I wouldn't strongly oppose a flip there if that's where the momentum is headed.

I don't understand why Ruler selfvoted.

In post 1536, Servant Alter Ego wrote:

In post 1495, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1480, Servant Lancer wrote:I've already mentioned my experience with mastina is very limited.

But its enough for you to figure out she was the one behind the slot?

In post 1496, Servant Ruler wrote:VOTE: lancer i think this is overdue

In post 1497, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1495, Servant Ruler wrote:

In post 1480, Servant Lancer wrote:I've already mentioned my experience with mastina is very limited.

But its enough for you to figure out she was the one behind the slot?

From her firsr post while I'm at it

Er, what? How is recognizing someone's posting style supposed to be scummy?

He’s trying to play the “gotcha” game as if I’ve been caught out in a lie because I said I haven’t played much with mastina but recognized her writing immediately. His other reasons for scumreading me are voting avenger (which I’ve already attempted to engage him about and he ignored), and brings up my “positioning around alter” which does not make any sense (I also asked about this and was ignored).

Ruler slot has consistently had takes that I cannot wrap my head around - takes that are so wildly off from where I am. Their view of the game does not make sense to me. Usually when someone is town and I disagree with them, I can at least understand why they are taking the stances they are and where they’re coming from. One example is that Ruler saw Saber’s reasoning for master bid and then was like “yeah this makes sense why Saber wanted NP and why he said he wanted to use it immediately and that it was stronger than a full cop shot,” which is so so so far from where I am in the universe. It would be one thing if Ruler simply said something I disagreed with, but his stances are consistently so far out of the realm of logic to me that I don’t believe it’s town. Scumreading alter and me for pushing avenger, who clearly made a super anti-town play if he was town and derailed a wagon on literally flipped scum, and ignoring everything else about our play, and then adding “alter might just be someone I disagree with” but then “I dislike lancer’s position around alter” does not seem like it can come from town. What’s the difference between me and alter, other than that I’ve been pushing and questioning Ruler? Why is alter someone he “just disagrees with me” but I’m the one positioning around Alter? (Highly disagree with that characterization by the way! Alter called me town first, I do not have any “positioning” around him.)

Finally, when I suspected the slot was mastina, I was okay with not being able to vibe with any of her takes because that’s kind of par for the course on my reading her posts anyway. A second person in the same slot who makes actually no sense to me and whose thoughts I can’t see coming from town has to be more than just coincidence.

In post 1530, Servant Ruler wrote:How would your stance change if it was revealed that saber was telling the truth about something?

What's this supposed to mean, exactly?

I would suspect that, irrespective of alignment, Saber's claim is at least partially true. I could see some of those abilities being beneficial to either faction. Traffic Analyst, for instance, has utility for both town and scum, although it's probably stronger on the town side.

In post 939, Servant Lancer wrote:

In post 924, Servant Ruler wrote:Also pending certain things, i think sabers claim is believable enough

believable /= town

I am pretty sure this is the point berserker is trying to get at. Is saber's NP their true NP? (it doesn't really matter but) if town, probably. if scum, he is probably claiming the true NP or something close to it so as not to mess up any details. Even if the claim is true though, that does not mean that saber is town by default. Are you townreading him?

Still relevant

In post 1420, Servant Berserker wrote:

In post 1389, Servant Foreigner wrote:Me and saber were first to catch Moon, so you should follow me now.

where did you two "catch" Moon?

During entire D1 i was saying that Moon is scum. 518 635 802 820 841

In post 1422, Servant Berserker wrote:that's not "catching" scum
otherwise you could catch scum by just voting every player

Moon was the only player i voted during entire D1 until avenger used power to reset VC.

In post 1423, Servant Alter Ego wrote:Let Foreigner answer for themself.

i start to feel that Alter is trying to pocket me now once that i got some town cred

In post 1474, Servant Ruler wrote:I've got alot of blind spots, probably to many.

I saw several people voting avenger for "bad play" and " sub optimal plat" and nothing on how the gladiate choice was actually scum motivated away from trading 1 for 1 scum which is dumb play

trading 1 for 1 scum but you assume double elimination here

In post 1261, Servant Avenger wrote:

In post 1259, Servant Alter Ego wrote:On a day with a double elimination, no less.

Hmm, I missed this.
It's irrelevant at this stage I guess though.

Avenger didn't know about double elim before he casted this (unless you think he lied?).

In post 1500, Servant Lancer wrote:VOTE: ruler

In post 1512, Servant Archer wrote:These are the people I am okay with flipping atm :

[Saber, Avenger, Foreigner,

Ruler

]

Are you kind of players, who suspect people which you disagree with? It is not really the best tool, scum right now are more likely to push the counterwagon rather then defend partner.

In post 1546, Servant Foreigner wrote:

In post 1423, Servant Alter Ego wrote:Let Foreigner answer for themself.

i start to feel that Alter is trying to pocket me now once that i got some town cred

That...wasn't a pocket attempt. I didn't want someone stepping in and answering questions for you. I wanted to see how you defended yourself so I could get a read on you.