Mafiascum.net

Ah, responding to prod. Have to read the few last pages, but my thoughts on Llama haven't changed. I will most likely vote for him.

@Kast - I have a feeling you'll put up hewitt up tomorrow, who would go up with him (at least from what you can say right now). You also suggested three people for Kmd to nom - hewitt, bv and llama. llama is up - which you also stated was acceptable, but not ideal. so why do you think kmd did not put up hewitt or bv? or for that matter...why do you think no one supports your thoughts on hewitt?

@Llama - one thing that always got me - and not necessarily a scummy move, just one that was interesting - was that you really wanted Mr Finch to move his vote in the HoH voting stage. Tell me a little bit more about the logic in it, because I don't think I picked it up the first time. Also - why would you have preferred you vs. Kast?

Furthermore, I really don't follow your logic on why Sly putting Kmd vs sens is indicative of Sly protecting Kmd as a scum partner. Don't you think that if Sly was protecting Kmd he would've put Kmd vs. bv/saber? That would've been a damn sure thing. I think it's a big hole in your logic there.

@crazy - all your quotes incidentally were spurred by kmd's questions toward me. I really don't think I would've mentioned ani all that much the entire time as my thoughts were focused on snow and sir (and to some extent paltry and sly). Is your vote more to protect llama or to evict me?

@hewitt - same question is your vote more to protect me or to evict llama? Also your earlier prediction is - Remaining Producers- bv310 and {Kast, Crazy}. Do you feel that this is still likely? My earlier readthrough on ani - I pretty much took both Kast and Crazy out of the running of being a producer based on what ani said. What do you think of this? Because I have never felt a strong town-feeling from either, but at the same time I feel that interactions just really don't seem indicative. Convince me that I should be a bit more wary of them. Or don't. Your choice.

@bv - you seem to be quiet. too quiet. speak up. ask me a question please. especially since you've stated doubt on me...and I'm wondering where this progression started mostly.

So I'm counting right now. 2+1 scum remaining 5 town. This is nightless. This means we have 4 mislynches right (to get a producer scum)? That's half the remaining players...

@kmd - you state that you want to get tougher scum out now. I think you're justified in doing so, but I think we all (as town) failed to count the weeks out. The pov and coup d'etat expire next round right? So essentially the last time a held power in this game can nullify nominations is next time? And that means if we evict scum for sure, the scum's choice for hoh won't need to be worried about because the coup ensures kast is hoh tomorrow (provided nothing strange goes on). Therefore, do you think that it's important that the usage of the coup helps nullify an hoh chosen by scum or do you think that it's not as a big deal that I'm making?

Tomorrow I'm movin, but I'll try to check in later tomorrow night. As I want to see the answers of some of these questions.

We have some time before the deadline for votes. Please let's use this time to talk and discuss. No need to vote just yet, especially since the lines seem to have been clearly laid out once nominations were made (except for bv and crazy).

pablito wrote:@hewitt - same question is your vote more to protect me or to evict llama? Also your earlier prediction is - Remaining Producers- bv310 and {Kast, Crazy}. Do you feel that this is still likely? My earlier readthrough on ani - I pretty much took both Kast and Crazy out of the running of being a producer based on what ani said. What do you think of this? Because I have never felt a strong town-feeling from either, but at the same time I feel that interactions just really don't seem indicative. Convince me that I should be a bit more wary of them. Or don't. Your choice.

My vote was an easy one as it was a vote to save you. To me, this was a crappy nomination by Kmd because neither Llama nor you were even close to being on my radar. At this point I'm pretty sure Snow Bunny is the remaining Chenbot and bv/Kast are the remaining Producers, with Crazy and Llama possibly being Producers. I'm a lot more sure that Kast is a Producer now that he's gone off every possible way he can on players who even hint at suspecting him, it's self-preservation at this point for him and I can understand that coming from scum who need to do that. I have no idea what why you're ruling them out based on something animorpherv has said because I see nothing at all that would rule them out. Especially with this nice little warning from Kast...

animorpherv1 wrote:

Kast wrote:@AM-
-Do you feel like you are playing to your win condition?

pablito wrote:@Llama - one thing that always got me - and not necessarily a scummy move, just one that was interesting - was that you really wanted Mr Finch to move his vote in the HoH voting stage. Tell me a little bit more about the logic in it, because I don't think I picked it up the first time. Also - why would you have preferred you vs. Kast?

Wasted vote. It was like not voting. You are supposed to vote because it shows opinion. When its beyond a doubt A or B, you give an opinion on A or B, you dont just say C.

I wanted me-kast because even though kast would use overthrow because he would need to, and then put me up, I would either not get lynched, or I would be able to put up someone who would undoubtedly put up kast the next day.

Furthermore, I really don't follow your logic on why Sly putting Kmd vs sens is indicative of Sly protecting Kmd as a scum partner. Don't you think that if Sly was protecting Kmd he would've put Kmd vs. bv/saber? That would've been a damn sure thing. I think it's a big hole in your logic there.

The only forseable way that kmd got lynched over sens there was people getting SO worked up over ani's vote on sens that it was obvious ani was scum so sens was not his partner so had a lower chance of being scum. Putting up kmd was a way to make it look like you were scumhunting with success later, but at the same time getting town lynched.

yeah, I get your philosophy. but why Mr Finch in particular and what was so important about Sens vs. Sly in that first day? What were your thoughts on those two back in the day?

llama wrote:The only forseable way that kmd got lynched over sens there was people getting SO worked up over ani's vote on sens that it was obvious ani was scum so sens was not his partner so had a lower chance of being scum. Putting up kmd was a way to make it look like you were scumhunting with success later, but at the same time getting town lynched.

1) Part of your argument is that Sly chose the noms particularly to protect kmd. I still don't see why Sens would've been a better opponent and a better lynch for chenbots than saber. Also, I never saw Sly as the scumhunting type. The moment he tried to justify a lot of things that he was doing on behalf of the town - I started getting suspicious of him. But there's still a huge gap in logic (and the key to finding the last chenbot) - in why Sly would say "I'll put up saber" to then going "nominate: kmd and sensfan". And I'm gonna say that your argument still seems too complex to fathom. I don't think sly was thinking that far ahead when he made those nominations and for those particular reasons.

2) I honestly didn't see that ani was scum and that whole vote thing was going on. but then again, I can't remember if I was around at that time and got to see that all unfold in real time. Or maybe I really am just not comprehending what you just said. I think that's more likely.

Ag. well anyway, llama you tear me into pieces. I think you're town sometimes and I have serious doubts on you as well. I know I don't have a vote, but it still matters to me knowing your opinion on everything - town or scum.

pablito wrote:yeah, I get your philosophy. but why Mr Finch in particular and what was so important about Sens vs. Sly in that first day? What were your thoughts on those two back in the day?

Mostly because he responded to me saying he wasnt going to. I dont like it when people tell me 'no' as a response to 'be helpful'

1) Part of your argument is that Sly chose the noms particularly to protect kmd. I still don't see why Sens would've been a better opponent and a better lynch for chenbots than saber. Also, I never saw Sly as the scumhunting type. The moment he tried to justify a lot of things that he was doing on behalf of the town - I started getting suspicious of him. But there's still a huge gap in logic (and the key to finding the last chenbot) - in why Sly would say "I'll put up saber" to then going "nominate: kmd and sensfan". And I'm gonna say that your argument still seems too complex to fathom. I don't think sly was thinking that far ahead when he made those nominations and for those particular reasons.

I guess thinking along this line because its exactly how I would of been thinking if I was scum with HoH. Have a partner suspected enough to justify nominating, but put them against someone who has a much higher chance of going and looks like other scum. Town points then, town points later.

2) I honestly didn't see that ani was scum and that whole vote thing was going on. but then again, I can't remember if I was around at that time and got to see that all unfold in real time. Or maybe I really am just not comprehending what you just said. I think that's more likely.

Im just calling it distancing. If you can ever create a scenario as scum where you eventually are revealed to of made the most townie move, but due to others actions it failed, that the best you can strive for. Putting up your partner and having them fail to get evicted when you could only convince, not vote, is the perfect distancing for this game.

LlamaFluff wrote: Mostly because he responded to me saying he wasnt going to. I dont like it when people tell me 'no' as a response to 'be helpful'

I was really hoping you were gonna say that you wanted him to pin down his position one way or another so that we could have more information in the future. Kinda like how we always have information on everyone's votes. Hence implying your scumhunting throughout. Also, as we know, I like having as much information out there as possible. But in terms of this quote, hrm, probably null tell.

Im just calling it distancing. If you can ever create a scenario as scum where you eventually are revealed to of made the most townie move, but due to others actions it failed, that the best you can strive for. Putting up your partner and having them fail to get evicted when you could only convince, not vote, is the perfect distancing for this game.

I agree that it's perfect distancing. But that got botched and the way that Sly dealt with it pretty much exposed him as scum.


At this point, I wouldn't mind Kmd jumping in and letting us know what he prefers in terms of pablito vs llama and if his opinions on anything have changed.

pablito wrote:Well I would hope KMD puts up snowbunny, bv or Kast if the POV is used. He has said before that he might put someone up just to make sure that either Llama or I get evicted.

I can guarantee I wouldn't be putting up BV unless something drastic happens. I woulnd't count on Kast going up either.

pablito wrote: @crazy -

all your quotes incidentally were spurred by kmd's questions toward me. I really don't think I would've mentioned ani all that much the entire time

as my thoughts were focused on snow and sir (and to some extent paltry and sly). Is your vote more to protect llama or to evict me?

The bolded is most of the connection I saw between you and animorph, which is why I questioned. Crazy's quotes are the responses you gave that reinforced my opinion.

pablito wrote: @kmd - you state that you want to get tougher scum out now. I think you're justified in doing so, but I think we all (as town) failed to count the weeks out. The pov and coup d'etat expire next round right? So essentially the last time a held power in this game can nullify nominations is next time? And that means if we evict scum for sure, the scum's choice for hoh won't need to be worried about because the coup ensures kast is hoh tomorrow (provided nothing strange goes on). Therefore, do you think that it's important that the usage of the coup helps nullify an hoh chosen by scum or do you think that it's not as a big deal that I'm making?

The coup/veto have nothing to do with my logic at all. What I'm saying is that most of us want Snow evicted. Snow will be nominated and evicted before this game ends. That's a given. If you are scum though, and I think you are, there's a good chance that other people don't see it and you can win this game for scum. So I'm trying to minimize scum's chances of winning in order to maximize town's chances.

If we have an endgame with mostly obvtown players, we're in good shape. Ideally, I'd like to never have to evict Hewitt, Kast, BV, or myself. Everyone's lists are different though, so I'm working towards my own. But I feel that if we leave those players in this game, town will win easy. So I want to evict Pablito, Llama, Snow, and Crazy and that's the order I'd go in. (I'm not as sure of Crazy's alignment. If any of the three before him were to flip town, I'd move him ahead of Snow.)

pablito wrote: At this point, I wouldn't mind Kmd jumping in and letting us know what he prefers in terms of pablito vs llama and if his opinions on anything have changed.

I'd prefer to see you evicted, but I'm not so sure that's going to happen. Actually, I highly doubt that it will now that I see Snow hasn't voted yet and her vote would be a hammer on Llama.

I'm at a roadside oasis eating lunch and on my drive over I thought that there's no need to keep veto for tomorrow and I'm still torn on llama but seeing votes to save rather than votes to evict I think we need a better candidate for better overall discussion.

Won't be back til later.

Well this is going to be interesting.

I think people know who I want to be up against

Well I'm very pleased with that. I couldn't think of two nominees that I would've rather not seen up on the block. I'd evict Snow Bunny, bv, Kast, and Crazy over Llama and if I'm nominated then I wouldn't have to make a decision anyway so thank you pablito.

@Pablito, my feelings on you really haven't changed. You were a strong town read, but the later the game goes, I always find myself doubting the people I initially trusted. I'm really happy you used the PoV. I'd like to see either Snow or KMD up there.

GOGOGOGOGO GADGET LLAMA-EVICTION!

Pablito, you suck.

bv310 wrote:@Pablito, my feelings on you really haven't changed. You were a strong town read, but the later the game goes, I always find myself doubting the people I initially trusted. I'm really happy you used the PoV. I'd like to see either Snow or KMD up there.

Kmd's HoH. Are you even paying attention to this game?

Anyways our votes are all wiped out and we get to revote right?

*Facepalm* I thought someone else was. My bad.

Crazy, eh? Interesting choice.

*sigh*

I actually think my chances just went down

Just remember my list. That should easily win you guys the game.

LlamaFluff wrote: Tomorrow - Kast (if possible) if not, SB
Day seven - Whichever one of those is alive
Eight - If chen still has one member, then kmd, if not, bv
nine - bv if alive, otherwise kmd/pablito
ten - kmd/pablito

This will be useful regardless of Llama's alignment (unless he's Chen). Note that Llama is saying Hewitt and Crazy are his top town reads with this list.

If Llama is town, I know him to be a good scumhunter, so I actually wouldn't mind doing something close to what he's given us here.

If Llama producer scum, his buddy is probably Crazy or Pablito. Llama's style if he's gonna be lynched as scum is to put his buddy in a position to win the game. It seems convenient for Crazy and Hewitt to not be mentioned at all here. But maybe that's too obvious, so he put his buddy on a "one or the other" with the "Kmd OR Pablito" last day thing.

Either way, thanks for the list, Llama. I expect that it will be helpful to the town.

I still think we can have a good discussion about Crazy vs Llama. Definitely what I feared the most - hence why I was asking kmd stuff before I used veto, but at least we know that Kmd refuses to go for what he perceives as easy scum even when given the opportunity.

Let's still take the opportunity to discuss both of them. I'm leaning toward voting Llama though based off of first thoughts of the two of them being up.

Kmd4390 wrote:This will be useful regardless of Llama's alignment (unless he's Chen). Note that Llama is saying Hewitt and Crazy are his top town reads with this list.

Yep, they are. Just killing everyone but them will win the game unless you leave both producer for last.

If Llama is town, I know him to be a good scumhunter, so I actually wouldn't mind doing something close to what he's given us here.

Are you really scum? Scum does scumhunt in multi-faction games. Ignoring what anyone has to say about who is scum isnt good, this includes all the dead scum. They would of been looking for other scum the whole time they were alive.

If Llama producer scum, his buddy is probably Crazy or Pablito. Llama's style if he's gonna be lynched as scum is to put his buddy in a position to win the game.

ive been lynched as scum once, NKed twice. Each time I was the last one alive so I dont get where this even is coming from, except for hoping that I am scum and allowing a harder lynch to happen.

Either way, thanks for the list, Llama. I expect that it will be helpful to the town.

When I get lynched are you happy just following my list straight down the line? Even if it results in your lynch? I have a feeling that you would support it, untill you come up then its going out the window.

~~~

I really dont want Crazy lynched, but its better from where I am sitting. Open to questions and things of the sort, even though I know im getting lynched here unless something huge happens since I have two auto-voters and would need pablito and bv to vote crazy to stay

LlamaFluff wrote: When I get lynched are you happy just following my list straight down the line? Even if it results in your lynch? I have a feeling that you would support it, untill you come up then its going out the window.

No. I wouldn't lynch Kast or BV.

Kmd4390 wrote:

LlamaFluff wrote: When I get lynched are you happy just following my list straight down the line? Even if it results in your lynch? I have a feeling that you would support it, untill you come up then its going out the window.

No. I wouldn't lynch Kast or BV.

So then saying you are going to use my list is kind of not true?