Mini 783: Cowboy Bebop Mafia - Game Over, Space Cowboy


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Post Post #1600 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:16 pm

Post by Gorrad »

Korlash, YOU have been in a game with only one vanilla. One, I may add, that I modded.
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Post Post #1601 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:21 pm

Post by Zilla »

Juls: What about me being roleblocked and VP just being a killer?

Korlash has done his darndest to say he doesn't believe it, but it's not impossible.
Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele
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Post Post #1602 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:29 pm

Post by Juls »

Sure VP could be the killer but I think you would STILL show up as targetting PF if you were RB.
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Post Post #1603 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:44 pm

Post by Zilla »

That I don't think is true. The games I've played, a roleblocker causes someone to fail at even targeting. I believe I played one here where a roleblock kept someone from being tracked anywhere.
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Post Post #1604 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:53 pm

Post by Gorrad »

...
Mod: Would a hypothetical watcher role C see if player A targetted their target B even if A was roleblocked?
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Post Post #1605 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:54 pm

Post by Zilla »

^ Brilliant *smacks forehead*
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Post Post #1606 (ISO) » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:22 pm

Post by charlatan »

Zilla wrote:^ Brilliant *smacks forehead*
Yeah, except I already asked before and he didn't answer.

I'm still thinking, and VP and Zilla are about neck and neck for me. Two things keeping them about level:

1) I can't discount the idea that there's something fishy we don't know about happening. I haven't discounted that idea yet, and it has served me well. I didn't just hop on to ZEEnon and Xtoxm being mod-confirmed Masons together. Turns out I was right not to. I didn't buy a second double voter -- there was a null vote after all. Yeah, the easiest explanation is that wasn't shown as targeting PF because she's lying, but the easiest explanation has failed us a few times this game. She might still be the best lynch, but I'm still worried.

2) VP's play has been a bit scummier to me throughout the game, and I want to keep in account the entire pattern of the game rather than just the last several pages.

I'm still looking to the two of them for today's lynch, though others aren't discounted. I still think at least one of them has to be lying, if not both.
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Post Post #1607 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:08 am

Post by Korlash »

Gorrad wrote:Korlash, YOU have been in a game with only one vanilla. One, I may add, that I modded.
Which game was this? Deathnote? Why did you feel it was necessary to include one vanilla? And do you know of any other games with one vanilla?
Zilla wrote:Korlash has done his darndest to say he doesn't believe it, but it's not impossible.
Nothing is impossible. See above. I don't believe games can or should have only one vanilla but apparently there is at least one game in which that is not true. Hence, I can disbelieve something that is fully possible.
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Post Post #1608 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:04 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Ok, I think I've heard enough. Anyone opposed to me hammering (besides Zilla)?
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Post Post #1609 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:32 am

Post by Zilla »

^ And what makes you think you've "heard enough"?
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Post Post #1610 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:42 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Given the evidence at hand, I've reached the conclusion that you must be scum. There is a remote possibility that this is not the case and something is in play that is mostly unseen up to this point. But without any real evidence to the contrary, what am I supposed to believe?

If the situation were reversed and you were coming from the blind perspective that the rest of us are regarding your alignment, would you really believe your claim?
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Post Post #1611 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:10 am

Post by Jahudo »

Gorrad wrote:
Mod: Would a hypothetical watcher role C see if player A targetted their target B even if A was roleblocked?
No, I think a roleblock would prevent Player A from going to the target, rather than going to the target and not doing anything. Like maybe Player A is knocked unconscious and kept at their home with the RB.

Vote Count #32 of Day 4


Zilla ––– Korlash, Gorrad, Juls
Korlash --- Zilla

Not Voting ––– charlatan, VP Baltar

With 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
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Post Post #1612 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:02 am

Post by Gorrad »

Yeah, Korlash, Deathnote. I only included one vanilla as it was a series in which /everyone/ had something to make them special. Except Matsuda. On the other hand, it was a mafia of four, three of which were power roles and one of which was a traitor.
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Post Post #1613 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:12 am

Post by Korlash »

Ok So you included one vanilla based on theme and flavor and on a super powered mafia.

Thusly it bares nothing in common with this game. The town is pretty much made up of non-specific characters and thusly aren't linked "flavorwise." In addition the mafia is already proven to be at least half weak, so one vanilla doesn't fit that way either.
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Post Post #1614 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:14 am

Post by Korlash »

Mod wrote:No, I think a roleblock would prevent Player A from going to the target, rather than going to the target and not doing anything. Like maybe Player A is knocked unconscious and kept at their home with the RB.
Ok so that clears that up. This means Zilla could have possibly been RBed and not seen. So if anyone has any evidence at all of a RBer now would be a good time to come out with it.
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Post Post #1615 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Korlash wrote:Thusly it bares nothing in common with this game. The town is pretty much made up of non-specific characters and thusly aren't linked "flavorwise." In addition the mafia is already proven to be at least half weak, so one vanilla doesn't fit that way either.
Meh, outguess the mod is probably pointless. Also, games aren't supposed to be built on their flavor.
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Post Post #1616 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:13 pm

Post by Zilla »

VP: there is nothing of hard evidence that says I'm scum, even from your hypo-town perspective. Why do you disbelieve my claim, when given the information you have, there's
plenty
of other explanations?

Why don't you lay out exactly why you think I'm scum?
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Post Post #1617 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:20 pm

Post by charlatan »

Zilla wrote:VP: there is nothing of hard evidence that says I'm scum, even from your hypo-town perspective. Why do you disbelieve my claim, when given the information you have, there's
plenty
of other explanations?

Why don't you lay out exactly why you think I'm scum?
I don't actually see
plenty
of explanations. The one hypothetical that makes any sense is that there's a roleblocker in play, and even that is contingent on the assumption that the roleblocker has not successfully blocked anyone of importance throughout the game, even after Vi and I claimed.
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Post Post #1618 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:29 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

char wrote: I don't actually see plenty of explanations. The one hypothetical that makes any sense is that there's a roleblocker in play, and even that is contingent on the assumption that the roleblocker has not successfully blocked anyone of importance throughout the game, even after Vi and I claimed.
pretty much. Don't you think it is likely that if there were a roleblocker in the game we would have
some
kind of evidence showing that?
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Post Post #1619 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:38 pm

Post by Zilla »

Basically, you're saying it hinges on me not being seen by charlatan; therefore scum?

And how long did Vi live claimed? And how many nights was it known Charlatan was a watcher?

Night 1, neither Vi nor Charlatan claimed; Xtoxm dies.
Night 2, Vi claims, Vi dies.
Night 3, Charlatan claims and does not die. This is the only time when Charlatan could have reasonably been targeted as a roleblock target for his role, and this was after I had said I was an associate and knew that Rhinox was lying.
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Post Post #1620 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:03 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Looking at my own role, I cannot say with any certitude whether or not I was roleblocked on N1 and 2. I know with absolute certainty that I was not last night. The only reasonable evidence I could see from my perspective is if I was blocked on N2 because I definitely felt the scum would have gone after Vi. I mean, she was on Rhinox pretty much the whole game, and never really gave don any slack that I can recall.

Who do you think is the scumroleblocker if they exist and why?
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Post Post #1621 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:10 pm

Post by Zilla »

Korlash, for denying a roleblocker exists, and putting all the "blame" on me, then having to admit the possibility exists but asserting that "It's just easier if I'm lying."

He's my absolute top candidate, followed very distantly by Gorrad.
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Post Post #1622 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:51 pm

Post by charlatan »

I'm ready for a hammer. I wish I could be more confident about it, but there's a lot of speculation and not as much hard evidence as I'd like right now. I pretty much see the following possibilities:

1) Zilla and VP are telling the truth. Zilla was roleblocked and Baltar did some target switching, leaving Korlash, Juls, or Gorrad as potential Pokerface killers. In this scenario, I am most inclined to believe Korlash is guilty, taking into account my long-standing suspicion towards that seat as well.

2) Zilla is telling the truth, VP lied. Means VP is the killer and that there's a roleblocker or something similar in play as well. It was my mistake to come out with the watcher results before letting Baltar claim, and you should all feel justified in bitching at me about it post-game, since it gave him a way to fakeclaim.

3) Zilla is lying, VP is telling the truth. Potential. Zilla tried to off me, got PF instead. Not necessarily a roleblocker or even an additional scum.

4) Both are lying. Both are scum. Explains everything pretty neatly aside from Zilla's decision to say she targeted Pokerface, but that's a whole lot of wine to swallow anyways.

I find options 2-4 more likely than 1 by a fair distance, and that still leaves me thinking one of you is definitely scum. I can't make up my mind which, and honestly I keep waffling, but I'm not getting any closer. In terms of night actions, Zilla living and pulling off a night action means we lose Zilla. If VP lives and pulls off a night action, he has the potential to cause scum to kill scum, which seems more valuable in the hypothetical situation wherein he's what he says he is.

Given this, I am slightly more comfortable with a lynch on Zilla, and am ready to see it happen. As VP said, any objections?
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Post Post #1623 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:10 pm

Post by Zilla »

I gotta say, your logic is sound. I just hope it's not LyLo.
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Post Post #1624 (ISO) » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:17 pm

Post by Zilla »

One last thing to think about; whose lynch gives more information for tomorrow?

Hypthetically, I'll look at the possibilities.

I hypothetically come up town; we learn there's likely a roleblocker (or at the very least, there has to be a reason Charlatan didn't see me).

I hypothetically come up scum; that means either good game or... if game doesn't end, that... um... I don't know?

VP hypothetically comes up town; I'm still suspect as scum, we learn... um.... I don't know either?

VP hypothetically comes up scum; lends credence to roleblocker theory, shows that he targetted Pokerface directly (unless he's a scum bus driver?)

Yeah, I'm being objective here, I don't know which of the two is more beneficial.
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