Mini Normal 2066: Catloaves [Game Over!]

[Eragon]

Yep

[nomnomnom]

Nom do you think there’s a world where Ank is groupscum?

I mean, with daychat, I think anything is possible at this point.

Though I have to say: the logical side of me thinks that this game very likely doesn't have a traitor. Like, think about it: JK, Loyal Neighborizer and disloyal blocker vs Goon + Traitor + Another scum? That makes absolutely NO sense, even if the last scum was a strong PR.

From a setup standpoint, it's more logical to assume all scums are inside a group. I think it's highly unlikely this setup has a traitor in it.

Anyway, I still think there's a good chance Ank is scum, even with all of this.

[rosterfoster]

An odd-night disloyal RB is pretty weak tbh.

Loyal Neighbouriser and JK is reasonable, but I don’t think it necessarily means there’s no traitor.

Your reticence to this plan makes me think it’s you/locke though and 3 groupscum.

There is no way GW does that thing because of DayChat IMO.

[Ankamius]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66833

Town Odd-Night Mason Recruiter
Town Jailkeeper
Town Motion Detector

vs

Mafia Goon
Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Jailkeeper Enabler

those three roles are WEAKER than the ones in this setup (Odd-Night Mason Recruiter is MUCH weaker than a loyal neighborizer; Jailkeeper is the same, Motion Detector is not as useful as the Odd-Night Disloyal Roleblocker in single-groupscum scenarios)

and yet there were three groupscum with them having two roles that helped keep town from snowballing EVEN WITH THAT LEVEL OF POWER

there's been

some

change to the normal guidelines since then but the general level of balance really shouldn't be changing enough to make it so that town has THIS MUCH power and scum can get completely fucked two different ways by the end of Night 1

it's absolutely insane

[Ankamius]

actually the motion detector is probably a bit stronger, it's definitely nowhere near as drastic a change as LITERALLY BEING ABLE TO COP EVERY SINGLE NIGHT INSTEAD OF EVERY OTHER NIGHT

[nomnomnom]

An odd-night disloyal RB is pretty weak tbh.

Loyal Neighbouriser and JK is reasonable, but I don’t think it necessarily means there’s no traitor.

Your reticence to this plan makes me think it’s you/locke though and 3 groupscum.

There is no way GW does that thing because of DayChat IMO.

I am reticent to this plan because fmpov at least one scum is pushing this.

[rosterfoster]

Yeah tbh I think it’s Locke/Nom.

But we do need to go through Locke first.

Pedit: Nom, I really don’t see how Ank can be scum with no traitor. Only other possibility is Eragon scum which is a minor possibility and the only way we don’t win, from all our points of view (unless you think I’m scum, but that idea has kind of been dispelled).

[nomnomnom]

Yeah tbh I think it’s Locke/Nom.

But we do need to go through Locke first.

Pedit: Nom, I really don’t see how Ank can be scum with no traitor. Only other possibility is Eragon scum which is a minor possibility and the only way we don’t win, from all our points of view (unless you think I’m scum, but that idea has kind of been dispelled).

I can't sanely approve of this knowing one scum is pushing Locke, regardless if he ends up being scum.

At least not without discussion first.

[rosterfoster]

If Ank is traitor then there isn’t a scum pushing, and Ank isn’t opposing it because he knows he’ll get lynched for it.

We’re having a discussion .

Fire ahead with any problems you have with it.

[Ankamius]

The only way Nom is scum is if she’s traitor IMO.

If you think the other scum is me then I’m sorry but we’re going to lose.

this is WRONG

the entire game makes complete sense with nomnomnom as groupscum.

1. She heavily resisted going onto GrandWazoo until it became inevitable that he was going to be lynched, she was stuck on the urap+alacrity scumteam idea the entire day phase
2. She pushed onto Eragon day 2; note that at this point, scum need

three

mislynches in order to win; TMCK was easily doable, Not_Mafia was very likely going to be a viable choice regardless of what happens, so she needs one more; I strongly believe Eragon was being groomed as a future mislynch solely because of that single reaction test he did on day two.
3. She tunneled on the Not_Mafia-is-scum theory,

tunneled

. She heavily resisted the switch onto Locke113.
4. She started the day trying to get me to play my hand first despite my play the day before making outright no sense as scum, then when I said that Locke was a bad lynch for the day,

she immediately started posturing to push onto me

. Nom KNOWS at this point that she WILL NOT win if I can play my cards out properly and build a case on her while roster and eragon are

both

locktowning me. Her only choice is to destroy my credibility before I can get to that point.

She's completely ignoring that I cannot be scum with Locke, because I have easy mislynch targets on both rosterfoster and Eragon.
She's completely ignoring that I caught Grandwazoo immediately and responded to her pressure on me by

trying to reach out to her

instead of shading or diminishing her
She's completely ignoring that I have been going against the grain on just about everything when the game was literally being handed to me on a silver platter if I was scum.

And best of all?

Even if I was specifically looking to take over the game for the endgame and brute force a mislynch...

WHY WOULD I PUSH MY SCUMPARTNER FIRST AND THEN PUSH ON THE MOST DIFFICULT MISLYNCH TARGET?

[rosterfoster]

Yeah Ank I changed my mind on that.

[Ankamius]

I have no reason to shield rosterfoster like I did as scum.
I have no reason to shield Eragon like I did as scum.

Doing BOTH as scum is even more fucking ridiculous.

I know I call my scumgame pretty bad, but it's because I can't execute on my strategies, not because I'm so fucking stupid that I can't even think of them in the first place.

[Ankamius]

Yeah Ank I changed my mind on that.

sorry, I've had bad games this year so far :S

[nomnomnom]

If Ank is traitor then there isn’t a scum pushing, and Ank isn’t opposing it because he knows he’ll get lynched for it.

We’re having a discussion .

Fire ahead with any problems you have with it.

Alright, let's put it this way:

If you believe Locke is scum, that means that the last scum is either on the people that are pushing him or on the person finding it odd that 3 people are approving of a dubious plan out of nowhere.

From my pov, there are two theories, and none of those involve you being scum: either I'm correct with my original assumption and Locke/Eragon are scum, and Eragon simply joined this because of "the pact" that I get lynched tomorrow.

Either it's Ank and she is agreeing because it's a winning move, or it simply furthers her victory, by again, cementing my lynch tomorrow if Locke ends up flipping scum.

Do you understand? Locke cannot be the right answer for me. If you are already decided I can't do much, but you'll see with time that this was the wrong move.

[Ankamius]

you haven't explained what my plan is this game, nom.

[nomnomnom]

you haven't explained what my plan is this game, nom.

That's a good question and if I'm frank, I can't come up with a cohesive answer.

It's just the way you explain everything, the way you put everything, the way you want things to go. They're not natural, there's a certain sense of secrecy to it, and when it's not, it's just you going in a thousand directions with your reasoning and your votes. I can't trust you.

Trying to decode your actions feels like an impossible task, given the kind of person you are. I just stick to what I think is right, and to any other logic I can stick to.

[Ankamius]

welcome to my town game

[Ankamius]

(the secrecy is reaction testing)

(I was specifically testing you today to see what you would push)

[nomnomnom]

How convenient.

[Ankamius]

the nomnomnom + Eragon + rosterfoster endgame is juuuuuuuuuuuuuuicy for you at the start of day

why would you not push for that as scum

[nomnomnom]

the nomnomnom + Eragon + rosterfoster endgame is juuuuuuuuuuuuuuicy for you at the start of day

why would you not push for that as scum

This is a loaded question and you know it.

It assumes a lot of things from the start too.

[Ankamius]

I strongly believe that you would not have responded the way you did to me saying that locke isn't the lynch today if you were town.

[nomnomnom]

What are you implying? That everything would be okay if we all collectively all agreed to lynch Locke, and that I'm scum for being against it?

Don't you see the point I'm trying to make here? Or perhaps you're choosing to ignore it and in that case, again, I can't change your mind.

[Ankamius]

what?

at the start of the day, lynching locke was a scum-motivated idea lol

and you instantly discredited me when I suggested otherwise

[nomnomnom]

at the start of the day, lynching locke was a scum-motivated idea lol

Excuse me?

By whose standards? Yours?