Mini Normal 2146: Cute Pets Game Over, Town wins

[Hiraki]

and I should get to decide tomorrow's lynch.

Nope - that's not how this works.

you can't just change your mind in light of new evidence?

actually, that is exactly how that works. this statement is baffling

with me, it's a pretty quick process - I don't feel the need to progress gradually to avoid making any wrong moves, if you catch my drift.

the difference between me and you is that i

act

cocky and you

are

cocky

Please, notscience, do try and justify your scumhunting strategy, and tell me why somebody like Hiraki shouldn't even get a mention from ya?

notscience and I have not only talked multiple times but notscience has discussed his views on me (and how they waffle) multiple times

I’m cursing at my autocorrect not you. Why are you being so obtuse?

I don't think domes are obtuse - wanna re-think your angle here?

Though jokes aside, I don't buy at all the 'claim' that you're corresponding with your auto-correct in this thread.

i would ask why you're trying to agitate him but you've done this to me in other games so there's no point here. it's still annoying and childish

You announced, loudly in thread, that Agar was protected. That meant the entire role of mine was suddenly WIFOM that night.

I'm naive - where was this said?

I check Agar, and he doesn't die = "Of course you shouldn't have checked Agar scum would avoid him because I said he would be killed"

This is

not

taking into considerations all advantages of the situation.

First, if you believed that there would be a protective role on Agar, then you would effectively know who that person is and would be able to manipulate the game so that person could stay hidden and hopefully protect YOU next or even better start a

town bloc

Second, I don't see the problem in "wasting" a shot by going on what seems like the most common choice. Gambits are...gambits by nature.

I don't check Agar, and he dies = "Of course he would die, you should have checked him".

You covered yourself for both bases.

I really really really don't see how you think the first one leads to a wagon right now.

You should not be announcing, in fucking thread, what the PR should be doing, because it turns the whole thing into WIFOM. I took a gamble that scum would take out the one person who was confirmed town.

No - this is based off of what you think. I don't know if it's town thinking but it's dead thinking anyway.

That gave them three people. Me, Agar and Una. I had two choices, and yet a 33% chance to hit scum. It was worse than a coin flip.

I don't buy this at all.

[Battle Mage]

When I flip green. Hoopla, then notscience please.

Or the other way around.

Don't care, both are obv-scum at this stage.

i think that's where we're going regardless of your flip. If you're scum, I could definitely see them thinking a big bus on you today might be a good play for them (it wouldn't, but that doesn't matter ). Definitely get the vibe from Hoopla that she is on the ropes here.

[Battle Mage]

Hiraki, is there anything game-related in your post 1600? assuming it's just fluff I can ignore?

[UnaBombaH]

Una, you should know better, you're doing the same shit that you did with me last game, and it's fucking stupid. Join me in lynching obv-scum in Hoopla.

No Prana, YOU should know better.
You made a poor choice with your nightactions, and everything you say here only further shows your twisted PoV on the matter.

Do not consider what anyone else says for a moment, and tell me two things.

1. Why did scum kill AGar last night?
2. Who was their only other reasonable kill last night, and why?

[UnaBombaH]

Why is BattleMage being rude and obnoxioud to people?

[PranaDevil]

You announced, loudly in thread, that Agar was protected. That meant the entire role of mine was suddenly WIFOM that night.

I'm naive - where was this said?

Here:

If pranas town he should be on you tonight then, yes?

Thus, the entire thing was turned into WIFOM, regardless of what the scum want you to believe.

I check Agar, and he doesn't die = "Of course you shouldn't have checked Agar scum would avoid him because I said he would be killed"

This is

not

taking into considerations all advantages of the situation.

First, if you believed that there would be a protective role on Agar, then you would effectively know who that person is and would be able to manipulate the game so that person could stay hidden and hopefully protect YOU next or even better start a

town bloc

Second, I don't see the problem in "wasting" a shot by going on what seems like the most common choice. Gambits are...gambits by nature.

No, you've misread it and thus you are barking up the wrong tree. MY protection was what was spoke about. You claiming I "believed Agar would be protected" is either ignorance or lying. notscience brought it up, clear as day in the thread, making me have to gamble where the scum would go. If I target Agar and get literally no information because they rightfully went elsewhere, then I can guarantee, right now, that I'd get jumped on by notscience regardless.

I don't check Agar, and he dies = "Of course he would die, you should have checked him".

You covered yourself for both bases.

I really really really don't see how you think the first one leads to a wagon right now.

You should not be announcing, in fucking thread, what the PR should be doing, because it turns the whole thing into WIFOM. I took a gamble that scum would take out the one person who was confirmed town.

No - this is based off of what you think. I don't know if it's town thinking but it's dead thinking anyway.

That gave them three people. Me, Agar and Una. I had two choices, and yet a 33% chance to hit scum. It was worse than a coin flip.

I don't buy this at all.

Both would lead to Hoopla and notscience trying to get me lynched. They have been obviously trying to lynch me from day 1, yet have provided no actual scum hunting to do it. Hoopla uses bullshit that she comes up with that blatantly doesn't work, and can be twisted to suit her needs (A PR should not be at the forefront of town, making huge announcements and calling people out day 1, because they want to use the PR, so calling people out for being lurkers and then pushing them to be lynched, while deliberately ignoring certain people, and not taking into consideration anything else... yeah, that's not town behaviour).

As for the last bit... you don't believe maths? Like... you are literally saying that with 3 people they should be hitting, that gives a 33% chance to hit scum? You then don't believe that with me not being able to target myself that reduces the chances too?

Scum believe me to be an easy mislynch (the way you lot are playing today... that is blindingly obvious as an outcome, so I hope you will focus on trying to actually hit scum tomorrow for a change). So I was bound to be kept alive. I'll be kept alive until late game because if I nail scum they will merely call me a liar regardless, this much we know, and then people will seemingly believe them, and not the power role that was outed, and has proven to actually be that power role.

Una, you should know better, you're doing the same shit that you did with me last game, and it's fucking stupid. Join me in lynching obv-scum in Hoopla.

No Prana, YOU should know better.
You made a poor choice with your nightactions, and everything you say here only further shows your twisted PoV on the matter.

Do not consider what anyone else says for a moment, and tell me two things.

1. Why did scum kill AGar last night?
2. Who was their only other reasonable kill last night, and why?

1 - Because they WIFOM'd well.
2 - You. Because you are confirmed town.

This is not fucking rocket science.

[bob3141]

No ifs , no buts. If you are town you should have been on agar regardless of what anyone said during the last day.


And I think it is interesting that scum would be bold enough to try and kill agar over you. If you are town then I would have run into serious risk of getting guiltied.


The highest risk role to scum last night was you. And if you were not scum. Then scum would know that. Thus they would know 2.5 of the town roles. And I really don't think they would take the greater risk of guitied by known pr over there kill failing trying to kill you.

When a combo of roleblocker, doc, and watcher would be highly unlikely.

[notscience]

Interesting.

[Hiraki]

Why is BattleMage being rude and obnoxioud to people?

It's his MO and I forgot about it. I won't again.

Thus, the entire thing was turned into WIFOM, regardless of what the scum want you to believe.

really?

That's your basis for all of this? I'm done here.

You claiming I "believed Agar would be protected" is either ignorance or lying.

ou announced, loudly in thread, that Agar was protected. That meant the entire role of mine was suddenly WIFOM that night.

So you did

not

believe that he would be protected but still thought there was now WIFOM because someone said he would be protected but you did not believe that person anyway?

If I target Agar and get literally no information because they rightfully went elsewhere, then I can guarantee, right now, that I'd get jumped on by notscience regardless.

Maybe - but I don't think I'd be on.

As for the last bit... you don't believe maths? Like... you are literally saying that with 3 people they should be hitting, that gives a 33% chance to hit scum? You then don't believe that with me not being able to target myself that reduces the chances too?

The fact that you think I'm trying to dispute your math is really telling about what I might do next.

[Hiraki]

Notscience, you're here, play a game with me. Is what Prana is doing right now optimal scum strategy?

[notscience]

You mean blame someone else for him intentionally not playing optimally? I’d say.

[Hiraki]

No - why doesn't he target Agar, then say that Hoopla is on Agar.

[notscience]

Bob where’d you get the doctor thing from

[Hiraki]

Target is clearly "target"

[notscience]

Where did he say hoops is on agar I’m rereading and don’t see it

[Hiraki]

No - this is a hypothetical.

[Hiraki]

I'm starting to believe that Prana is just VI and not scum because the scum motivations for this move are becoming ever increasingly small. At the same time, the town motivations for this move are also very small.

[notscience]

Why doesn’t he fake a watcher guilty? Towns only had one mislynch they’d still need one more to win- they probably don’t think they are in a safe enough space to.

I think occams, hiraki. Yes I could see a world in which he is town and left alive for days, but the night actions make absolutely no sense.

[notscience]

Something that could fit this is traitor (which I am not saying is definite just something that crosses my mind) as to why he wouldn’t.

Or his buddy is liable to get wagoner after this through Poe.

[Hoopla]

I'm starting to believe that Prana is just VI and not scum because the scum motivations for this move are becoming ever increasingly small. At the same time, the town motivations for this move are also very small.

there's a small part of me paranoid about this, because faking a guilty on a townie to eke out one more mislynch before he goes down seems like the obvious scumplay. maybe he was naive enough to think he could talk his way through a wifom defense, and didn't need to resort to a fake guilty?

[notscience]

Do you think we should consider mass claiming?

[Hiraki]

But see the later seems a little more advanced for a VI. He would also guarantee death for tomorrow or scum is now plotting to leave him alive, if we leave him alive. But if you think down that far, then you're also going into the territory that now Prana doesn't know how to effectively use his PR ability, is an easy opportunistic mislynch if he's not scum, and basically serves no usefulness for the town.

At the end, I think this is a necessary lynch before any LYLO shenanigans if he is town and a win if he is scum. I think I am settled again.

[Hoopla]

Do you think we should consider mass claiming?

massclaim is a tactic to gain more insight, and improve lynching odds immediately with PoE. this comes at the expense of the value hidden PR's offer. we already have prob-scum painted in a corner. massclaim isn't really improving lynching odds today, so what are we gaining?

tomorrow makes more sense for massclaim.

[UnaBombaH]

1 - Because they WIFOM'd well.

No. You are trying to give WIFOM way too much priority here.
They killed AGar because there was a real risk of missing a second nightkill in a row.
Assuming you are town, their only risk was you targeting AGar, WHICH YOU SHOULD'VE DONE.
Which leads to my second question, and your poor answer to it.

2 - You. Because you are confirmed town.

Why am I confirmed town?
What about a scenario where Flippy is a scum!fruit-vendor and the Gunsmith-talk is either nonsense or makes no difference?
Scumteam of Flippy-Una-Klick was theoretically still possible, until we heard today that Flippy now has a second result as well, and that makes at least one of us certainly town.
But you didn't KNOW that before today, did you?
In fact, we had only ONE conf.town before this day-phase, and that was AGar FROM THE MOMENT Klick flipped red.

AND I WANT EVERYONE TO PAY ATTENTION HERE.

Scum might've missed another nightkill tonight no matter what.
Unless I'm mistaken, AGar could've technically saved themself with a well-targeted block last night anyway?
AND there was the added CERTAINTY that Prana will catch whoever does the kill, because they'd be watching.
So unless scum had a roleblocker on Prana AND AGar, we would've possibly survived another night without a kill and/or gotten a guilty.

SO WHAT MAKES MATTERS EVEN WORSE FOR PRANA?

Prana claims to have gotten a result. No one visited me last night.
Meaning that scum didn't roleblock Prana.
Meaning that scum risked missing a kill + GETTING GUILTIED in the process.

Prana is not a town!Watcher because their perspective is totally flawed in this matter.
And even if they are, refusing to be leashed on the only target that mattered last night gives enough room for doubt for the rest of the game.
And THAT is the WIFOM-part of it all - leaving Prana alive based on their claim.

[UnaBombaH]

And I think it is interesting that scum would be bold enough to try and kill agar over you. If you are town then I would have run into serious risk of getting guiltied.


The highest risk role to scum last night was you. And if you were not scum. Then scum would know that. Thus they would know 2.5 of the town roles. And I really don't think they would take the greater risk of guitied by known pr over there kill failing trying to kill you.

When a combo of roleblocker, doc, and watcher would be highly unlikely.

Yes, this is the townie PoV.