Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[morph the cat]

honestly i prob feel better about noddy being town than fferycabd but i just suggested him after me because consensus seemed to swing that way

id prefer noddy bell bork lylo over others prob? havent really thought about it that much tbh

About 72 hours ago I was planning to keep my vote on you no matter how this day played out.

Now I'm contemplating voluntarily pre-deceasing you.

If you're scum I'm going to be beyond humiliated.

[morph the cat]

Muffin belongs in not elo and I say this as someone who expects to die first given the trajectory of my “scum slip”

It seems like no one is enthusiastic about actually being there in this xylem, except you.

Does that give you any pause?

[morph the cat]

Muffin belongs in not elo and I say this as someone who expects to die first given the trajectory of my “scum slip”

It seems like no one is enthusiastic about actually being there in this xylem, except you.

Does that give you any pause?

It’s like my avenger play got memory holed.

And it's like you memory holed the morbid townie.

[morph the cat]

Who do you want to be in xylem with you and Bork? And why?

[morph the cat]

I'm good with that if you hammer.

[morph the cat]

Bork?

[morph the cat]

Are you ok with that xylem?

[morph the cat]

I think it probably comes down to whether Muffin and Bell are both ok with that being the xylem. Muffin should be, since he thinks you're scum and he's willing to be elimed today. Bell should be, too, because he's 100% convinced you're scum. And Bell's your greatest scumread.

You can all rethink on Day 5 if needed.

[morph the cat]

this basically only blows up if ST is scum?

can we have muffin instead of ST?

Please not this.

Welcome to my world.

[morph the cat]

Bell should be, too, because he's 100% convinced you're scum. And Bell's your greatest scumread.

this should basically not be relevant. I think muffin is the read I am 100% least likely to waffle on at this point.

Who else, then?

[morph the cat]

i am mildly amused that this game has now turned into "no, kill ME first"

You didn't see this as a possible outcome of your suggestion?

My first reaction reading your post from last night was "oh fuck no, not me."

[morph the cat]

i actually didnt think about the implications outside of absolving me of any responsibility besides getting bell read correct

I kinda screwed that up for you then.

[morph the cat]

If neuterhalf were in favor, I'd grit my teeth, probably.

Neither of us feel good about it, though not for all the same reasons.

[morph the cat]

I'll be ok with Maid (or their replacement) chiming in before this day ends.

[morph the cat]

Dumb question

Do you think muffin asked this explicitly to throw us all into this “I wanna die first” circlejerk expecting Bork to prefer he hammers

Or am I aprilling rn

I don't think he could predict that would happen.

[morph the cat]

The I wanna die first circle jerk isn’t a part of it.
The idea is just to be the one not to hammer.

Nobody who isn't certain Bork is scum wants to be the hammer. Including scum, if Bork's town.

Somehow we've wound up in a place where to not want a bork xylem to happen can't be distinguished from a town or a scum mindset. And that's what makes the I want to die rather than be there mindset a thing.

[morph the cat]

I think it has to be in Bork or muffin

But idk

I want to believe that. I have believed that. It's why I voted Muffin.

Another thing we're doing is assuming the night kills are going to go a certain way. They probably will, but it would be a serious spanner in the works if not.

[morph the cat]

Would it? Killing outside of the confirmed town pile is a misplay.

spayhalf is probably the only person in the game that's not totally convinced Maid is confirmed town. Even so, I feel like they'd be interested enough in shaping the game that they wouldn't get prodded for inactivity if scum, so I should probably tell my black box processor to stfu.

[morph the cat]

They were prodded yesterday.

[morph the cat]

We vote for early night end

[morph the cat]

We don't intend to vote ourselves tomorrow, jsyk.

After Rem and ST confirm they want quick night end, we'll put our vote back down.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Bork

Do I even want to know?

[morph the cat]

You think there won't be enough votes to elim us without our self-vote? I think there will be.

This is an ethos thing.

[morph the cat]

@Morph are you set on muffin? If so then there's really fucking little point to dithering any more

Short night, yea or nay?

[morph the cat]

VOTE: zmuffin

[morph the cat]

That's the answer. We're set on Muffin. As set as we can be, anyway.

[morph the cat]

After thinking and stewing and taking a break and stewing some more, the one thing I want was for there not to be an ELO that depends on you getting hammered by scum if you're town. And that's not on the table.

I mean, I can maybe flip tables and be elimed today instead, but that's all I can do. Who gets elimed tomorrow is out of my hands either way.

[morph the cat]

This whole game has been hard.

I feel like our day 4 fit the flavor pretty much perfectly. everything we thought we knew about the gamestate turned upside down. paranoia. confusion. trying to help rebuild some semblance of a functional town, every little bit built torn to flinders sometimes by our own hands due to unbridgeable chasms. and over it all float a couple of confirmed town who are too disconnected from the game at this point to ever be able to get down into the weeds. And maybe being down in the weeds would actually make things worse.

[morph the cat]

you basically asked me who i'd want to be around in ELO and proceeded to totally ignore it

I think you should vote us since you don't want muffin elimed. A Bell wagon is not going to happen.

[morph the cat]

This is so gross.

We know muffin's flipping town.

[morph the cat]

I think I’m reaching that point of sync with them that I just get it

It’s part of why I’m okay with sticking around because I know they want no part of it either and I get their read flip on Bork because it feels so off to me too.

Pedit
Far out man

This post bothers us, ftr.

[morph the cat]

Bell

From meh to great meteor from space, how pissed will you be if we break the bargain?

[morph the cat]

It's mindboggling that this could be nth dimensional chess on muffin's part.

[morph the cat]

that flavor

IV said it could just be scum muffin who didn’t want to drag the game out.

Do you agree with IV?

[morph the cat]

Which conclusion?

[morph the cat]

Morph I think scum is muffin or Bork

So do I, and I worry that drawing this out into a bizarro form of xylem or elo (will there ever be a standard vocabulary around this?) will make it mechanically difficult (or impossible) for town to win.

That’s my bottom line. I think I could see scum muffin not wanting to drag it out until a you him bell cylo where bell is liable to vote him and you guys are a coin flip. I could also seen this be a galaxy brain call from muffin.

And I’m aware I am somehow simultaneously under and over estimating him and no I don’t understand how I’m doing it

I feel like if scum-muffin wants to get the game over with, he didn't have to come up with this plan. I thought the momentum was moving in his direction before he posted it. As a galaxy brain call, I'd be beyond impressed that he could predict the ripple patterns from dropping a rock into already disturbed water.

I have a little more to say, but I'd like to sync first in case neuterhalf talks me out of it.

[morph the cat]

Neuterhalf isn't talking me out of it.

I'll hate myself if I'm wrong. I'm not really scumreading bork beyond feeling paranoid about his role and the yeets, but I'm super worried that we'll set things up for the wrong person to hammer him in elo.

[morph the cat]

I'm worried the removalizer ability itself potentially fucks with elo enough.

[morph the cat]

I mean, I feel like either removalizer can't happen the night before elo, or there is no votefuckery and we just don't know when we hit the last gameday.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE:

[morph the cat]

Who would get yeeted though? Bork or Maid?

[morph the cat]

Assuming April and Bulge are the N4, N5 NKs. Which I suppose isn't for sure?

[morph the cat]

How would this have worked if there had been an N2 NK?

[morph the cat]

I think this setup was designed around the assumption that role interaction will cause a universal rolestop one night so I’m pretty sure it was expected to miss a kill

Plus a white mage, though maybe both protections were expected to be sucked into the lightning rod on N1? It seems like the setup has to work in both scenarios. I guess it does work, but there would be less of an option to abuse it if we came down to a final 4 instead of a final 3.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Remilia

[morph the cat]

Give us more time and we'll continue chasing our tails.

[morph the cat]

^ Us being this hydra. I think overall positions are pretty settled at this point.

[morph the cat]

like if this flips green we suddenly need to bet the game on two townies instead of one. If it flips red we would’ve gotten them anyway at LYLO. I don’t think anyone has explained logically why this is a good vote. Tbf I’m a bit behind but even muffin said last page it’s theoretically good to vote someone else.

-innocentvillager

Who is your one townread?

[morph the cat]

I don’t really know at this point but that’s not the point? All I know is Scum is like almost certainly in muffin morph bell remi. All I’m saying is (which I thought we established) if we go 2 townies then Remi then remi hammers we only have to bet on one person being town. Whereas if we get remi we have to bet on two people being town

-innocentvillager

You kinda do have an opinion, though. You're ok with a you/bork/bell xlem.

[morph the cat]

If we wind up doing that, then I want to amend our amendment to the plan and not have Bell hammer.

Though I'll probably waffle on that again.

[morph the cat]

I am so goddamn numb to this game.

[morph the cat]

I am so goddamn numb to this game.

Ok fiiiiiiiiiiine

VOTE: Muffin

I know, bork. but it's you or muffin today, nothing else gathers any real steam

Prove me wrong.

[morph the cat]

Hope the game's done.

Doubt it is.

Time to fire up the northsidegal script I guess.

[morph the cat]

Not doing it. I'll take muffin at ELO or something else can deal w/ it.

We'll still be invested in Day 5. I'm sure we'll do another dozen re-isos unless tomorrow is a quick-elim. And then it's out of our hands. I almost hope you're scum so that all the handwringing we're doing en hydra about who should have to hammer is moot.

[morph the cat]

Bork sorry I was driving I was gonna vote bell for like ten minutes so you could have a few happy sips/swigs before your glass ran out.


Blame traffic on 294.

[morph the cat]

Time to fire up the northsidegal script I guess.

oh good you think itll be me tonight too

Hmmm I think I'm missing context here?

[morph the cat]

Bork sorry I was driving I was gonna vote bell for like ten minutes so you could have a few happy sips/swigs before your glass ran out.


Blame traffic on 294.

Plz don’t

Let the man have his copious amounts of liquor. What kind of anti booze hound are you?

[morph the cat]

Time to fire up the northsidegal script I guess.

oh good you think itll be me tonight too

for which?

pedit he's talking about the script.

[morph the cat]

I assumed you were preparing for april to return to the thread lol unless you're talking about the red/green script

Yeah I meant the red green script.

[morph the cat]

Although I might do both for good measure.

[morph the cat]

Lel stop trollin.

[morph the cat]

We must be thinking of a different muffin, then.

[morph the cat]

o well. i shall perservere

because even when a mafia game deals you the shittiest hands imaginable and shits in your mouth you need to spit it out and turn it to gold or some shit because not doing so means that you aren't even playing mafia, you're just suffering through it

-confucius

This post... Quite prophetic.

[morph the cat]

Bulge please let us know what Insights April has

But try to keep it to like 9 theories any more than that gets excessive

Uh...?

[morph the cat]

No I'm just confused because we established that April can't post in the hood

[morph the cat]

Yeah I have no recollection of this being a topic.

[morph the cat]

Yeah. Maybe.


Dumb doodoo head role anyways.

[morph the cat]

Muffin sho was your final call for three man again?

Nuking us tomorrow?

[morph the cat]

April don’t target anyone tonight just in case you aren’t blocked

??

[morph the cat]

Never mind. I'm sleep deprived.

[morph the cat]

I'm doing a reread. May wait until I'm done or post thoughts day by day.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Remi

I take it you're not a fan of the Muffin Man Plan, then?

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Morph

Unlike muffin who I felt I could have been blindsided by this one I'm confident is going to flip town.

Take your tim on that research I'm just placing the vote down so I don't feel too gross later.

If you think we're flipping town.... do you think it's just tunnels/remelia, then?

I'm confused now.

[morph the cat]

I'm confused too. Didn't you vote Muffin while saying like, the same thing?

Head disagreement.


Also, if this is really your read (It's 100% bork), the plan fails to account for it being a scum governor as opposed to town super resetter.

[morph the cat]

Bork,

Who do you want to hammer Day 6?

[morph the cat]

I would prefer ST to be the non-hammerer at Borklo at this point.

This is where I was at most of day 4. Looks like you're probably going to have borklo.

Dunno if you'll get the hammer you want.

Still rereading interactions with scum. Thank tlaloc I don't have to read my own iso.

[morph the cat]

So much more reading to do, but one thing that's come out of isoing plusjoyed and midway with different players is that plusjoyed's day 1 posts about ST and to ST don't give me the slightest team vibes. plusjoyed tried to chain ST and bulge together whereby if bulge flipped town then ST was scum and to some extent vice versa. This was a time when I wasn't townreading ST and that lack of townread was getting questioned by both muffin and bork (in different ways and to different degrees) and it may have looked like an ST push could lead somewhere.

When I get a little more done and cement some more of my thoughts I'll probably post a wall or two.

[morph the cat]

@morph
About Bell, he seems to be playing this game similarly to me in this game to some extent. There's a lot of questions directed at others in his ISO, and he even admitted that it was about the journey and not the destination. I can sorta sympathize with that sentiment because I have started taking that approach too and asking a lot of questions even if I don't know where it's leading to. I'm not sure if it's a bad habit or a good one, but at least I think it's a good way to pool information that you can look at later on even if you are unsure in the moment. I think that's what Bell has been doing this game a lot, and I remember him recently compiling thoughts so I'm fine with it for now. However, I think I'm going to go back to see how his questions potentially because I don't remember thinking that they were exactly related. Get back to you later on that. Also, I'm not sure I can completely ignore his fluffier comments, but I think those are more of a personal peeve than anything massively alignment indicative. Maybe it's similar to the open wolf comments from L1 that annoyed me so greatly in the dance game. I guess I'm townreading this slot at this moment.
About your read specifically, I think the point about him revealing that he was someone familiar with you guys as a massive townpoint. I also sorta think it's townie that you brought it up for some reason. It's definitely the type of thinking that I like. I don't really have any comments on these supposed mindmelding moments partially because well it's you who is mindmelding with him, but also because I don't remember any of those moments from him? For the other half, I would be surprised if Bell had meta on me but it seems like he has alluded to that? Vote on Plus is definitely townie though for pretty much the reason you had. Ok, yeah I think you are town now for the comment about Bell calling you IC. I don't think you think of including that read as scum. I do think he was jesting about that, so it's not as big of a town factor to you as for me. Surprisingly, I don't remember his entrance to be townie for me, but I might have been missing things such as the Plus vote.

About Remilia, I don't remember interacting or even really thinking about this slot much out of early game. Maybe I've been a little intimidated of their slot or something, but I thought the questions they had towards me were nice and had purpose. That reminds me of the tone shift thing I thought I had found early game, and I realize I haven't been putting much of a focus on the individual post much this game. Perhaps that is something Something_Smart may have noticed, but it was limited anyways and quite subtle. I did think their entrance was quite fluffy and jokey in the same way I did as Secret Tunnels which will probably always be something I view as suspicious too much. Looking at 114 and 121 especially 121, I think the way bork advocated for you to read his slot instead of GiFs was pretty townie. It seems like you talked about GiF not being town, and I feel like the way bork jumped in was pretty natural. When I zoom out, I have no idea what makes me think it is so good, but I still like it for some reason. Looking at vote history, the first serious vote is on Bell for a) flipping on me and b) something about engagement on muffin/morph. I don't really like this first reason as it seems pretty surface level for a player like bork. Like what purpose does it serve for scum Bell to flip on me for not answering his question, I probably would be expecting a more pockety thing than the snap scumread. I'm not sure what he's talking about in the second part so no comment there. Next and final vote is on Plus which is fine because I also noticed Plus seeming sort of static in his read on Remilia. So based on votes, it's not really conclusive. His readlist from last night also seemed legit. Look genuine, and reasonable based on earlier comments(what I'm looking for from Bell).
About your read, I also liked the trajectory of the way he formed his reads. I'll accept the rest of the stuff as some intracacies that you picked up from many games played together.
Guess I'm townreading both of these slots now

This post from day one is addressed to/mentions all of the non conftown still alive, except for ST. In his next post which was almost two pages later, he voted ST.

He's pretty gung ho about Bell being town. And with Remilia he is way more hedgy, but "About Remilia, I don't remember interacting or even really thinking about this slot much out of early game. Maybe I've been a little intimidated of their slot or something, but I thought the questions they had towards me were nice and had purpose." just feels like a weird thing to say about a scum partner who's being townread by a supposed town leader. He goes on to point out a bunch of stuff he doesn't like and then basically says "whatever, it's your meta read, I'll follow it."

Despite my reaction to the part where he says maybe he feels intimidated, his Remilia read feels partnery to me.

[morph the cat]

I'd like to see notsci agree with that post in all its particulars.

[morph the cat]

Hi friends

I will be here after work. Sorry I didn’t stop by yesterday I was refreshing the election every 10 seconds

:/

[morph the cat]

This game is dumb and it should feel dumb. At least the election is mostly settled.

[morph the cat]

Insert photoshopped consent meme, I don't, here.

If we do intend to go through with braindedtoxylotheplan, then let's get on with it.

Both heads of this hydra expect fuckery and have already written the loss off.

[morph the cat]

spayhead has gone round and round and where she stops...

Recommends that Bell be the hammerer.

I townread notsci, but ever since the zmuffin paranoia case, I've had flickers of doubt about IV, and recent new IV posts (particularly the last one) fan those flickers.

Overall his zmuffin paranoia case held together fine even though I disagreed. But, the first couple of paragraphs read like it was written to sound like a verbal conversation. And there's no reason for that crafted-for-effect to be there.

In my heart of hearts, though, I expect ratfuckery that utterly destroys our xylo plans.

Good luck town! Despite our premonitions of doom, we'll be cheering you on.

[morph the cat]

i think this might just be the win

There's an interesting conversation waiting to happen when the game ends.

I hope you guys get a little bit of the story of Stomper in our death scene.

If not, postgame you can read about him in our PT.

[morph the cat]

on a scale of 1 to helpful that gets a

If you're town and you genuinely think the game ends with our elim, then yes, that convo gets to happen. I think we all have shit to say about how this game has evolved/devolved.

I don't know what the doomsday ability I fear is in the game actually is. Maybe it's the yeet, but the scum nightgame had to basically be perfect in order for a final yeet to make a difference. One vanilla nk, and the lightning rod left the scumteam with an abundance of conftown/threats to deal with in the final night/day.

If you're town, then you have this xylo warping ability. And scum must have a counter. Is that counter simply killing you given all the other things scum needed to do in order to have a conftown-free final day?

If you're not town, then I guess your chances are 50/50 of bringing a scum win home.

[morph the cat]

I realize I have to go back a bit to get your endorsement of the plan but 8023 really seems like a "I was against this from the beginning but you fuckers wouldn't listen" sort of post, and the "I've already written the loss off" is a really bad look in lieu of having attempted to do anything else; we've been in stalemate for what, two weeks?

We were (especially me) all over the place on Day 4. It was my idea to vote zmuffin out of the gate. His plan to get to endgame convinced me that he was town, ironically. If muffin, himself hadn't been so determined to exit and let his plan unroll, we would not have voted him yesterday. And we would probably have been the elim instead. I accepted that possibility. It might have led to town having more opportunity, or at least will to think harder and play harder than we have.

And that still might have been a better Day 4 than what we got.

Yeah, this day occurring during the middle of such a bizarre election week definitely put the game on a backburner for me -- us -- and probably for most everyone still alive.

I hope zmuffin's right. I don't have an alternative solution.

I'm not sanguine about Day 6 at all. But if things do play out as zmuffin expected and you're town, then I think you need to take a deep breath, reset and think about who you want to hammer. I miswrote above. Bell is my stronger townread at this point, and I don't think he should be the hammer.

[morph the cat]

And scum must have a counter

why do you think this given what we've observed? we pretty much exactly know what scum is capable of unless you think they're hiding a hidden reactionary ability in addition to what we've seen, which seems super unlikely in ANY setup

unless you think it's maid and this is some factional nonsense

does it make sense to you that one bad nk plus the lightning rod could basically ensure other night kills take precedence over you for the final 2 nights of the game?

And yeah, I'm trusting Cabd and to some extent you in your conclusions that maid is mechanically conftown, but I can't get to that point myself. It's going to be an asterisked read for me until Maid flips or endgames.

[morph the cat]

I don't think this takes us anywhere useful. The main thing I want to convey, if this game progresses according to play, is that ST is not my strongest townread. It's so weird to be townreading notsci and having reservations about IV, but that's where I'm at and that's the one thing that I hope gets consideration when we're dead confirmed town.

Our fears about ratfuckery are beyond our ability to do anything about, so I just wish town luck and hope it's basically overworked brain spasm or something on our part.

[morph the cat]

according to plan, not play

[morph the cat]

I thought you were reading his being ardent about the plan as a towntell.

No, you know what fucking sucks about this?

I was fairly certain muffin was town and instead of being able to fall back on being convinced of that he's fucking dead and i get to deal w/ people pulling on my heartstrings about more nuanced shit that i'm more likely to fuck up.

incoming bell careening in to tell me that i couldn't possibly have townread muffin and in order to townread him i'd have to know
which is fucking stupid

I WAS convinced he was town based on his plan. I didn't think, especially with him pushing for his own elim, that the elim could realistically be shifted to someone else and aside from you we didn't have any idea who could be scum. Eliming you would thwart the plan and make us even more elim-bait if you're town. I gave up when ST voted zmuffin while reiterating their opinion that he was probably the final scum anyway.

I gave you no shit for voting us yesterday.

I'm giving you no shit for voting us today.

We get to state our final thoughts here, right or wrong.

It's annoying to be getting elimed and also guilted for somehow not having a galaxy brain gamesolve.

[morph the cat]

I don't think this takes us anywhere useful. The main thing I want to convey, if this game progresses according to play, is that ST is not my strongest townread. It's so weird to be townreading notsci and having reservations about IV, but that's where I'm at and that's the one thing that I hope gets consideration when we're dead confirmed town.

bell is?

This is why I don't want to be there tomorrow.

Notsci's next post will probably spin the pointer again.

These two posts pertain directly to us. Which do you think is more likely to be a townpost?

VOTE: Morph

Unlike muffin who I felt I could have been blindsided by this one I'm confident is going to flip town.

Take your tim on that research I'm just placing the vote down so I don't feel too gross later.

uh

yeah I’m personally ok hammering morph at some point I think pending whatever approval

seems like no compelling reason to deviate from the plan

morph probs flipping town but whatevs should be a win

-innocentvillager

[morph the cat]

gutshot probably the top one if i were coming into the game knowing nothing about anything but i think you're unhilighting the most important part of that second post

"seems like no compelling reason to deviate from the plan"

which is pretty much the impetus for everything else in it

Notsci self-voted at the start of Day 5

The majority of their posts feel town to me. It's a handful of IV posts that just grate to some degree, though I keep coming back to town overall.

I'm throwing my hands in the air right now and basically doing what I did after notsci agreed with IV's muffin vote. FIIIINE.

If it were a normal xylo that wound up with ST, Bell and us, I'd probably vote Bell.

[morph the cat]

Most of the stuff regarding maid is just an endless well of disappointment, but that is only partially their fault.

I'm sure there'll be screeching from me postgame about that yeeter role and how fucking anti-fun it is.

[morph the cat]

This has been your 1am "cabd why the fuck aren't you asleep" posting.

[morph the cat]

I don’t see why they can’t come at this from more than one view point.

If you’re town, they think i’m Town and would prefer I not hammer.
If you're Scum it doesn’t matter who hammers.

I go back and forth. And it's mostly about ST and a handful of IV posts.

Right now I want you to hammer. I'm less sure about you being town than about notsci.

Maybe I'll have a moment of true clarity at some point this game day.

Not counting on it.

[morph the cat]

Sure.

Any preference on who hammers in elo?

You.

[morph the cat]

Ya'll around?

[morph the cat]

Hoping that you all are and that tammy isn't~

[morph the cat]

So like, just waiting on bork I guess then?

I fucking well hope the two towns pull it out tomorrow.

This yeeter role is quite frankly the worst most demoralizing role I have ever had the displeasure of being in a game with. It turned an already lurky player into a demotivated husk of a slot, because they didn't get to post for nearly a month. While I quite enjoy our mods as people and players, this role was very much not it, chief.

If bork is town, things play out as expected. If there's some sort of "Haha I am a factional yeeter but also scum govorner" scumbork then whatever. I don't think that's the case though.

That said my heart and soul refuse to have hope of the town win, TBH.

[morph the cat]

I'm likely gonna self hammer tonight then put the game down and go celebrate having a fucking adult in charge soon.

[morph the cat]

Sweet release

@morph I pretty much don’t want to fight tunnel in elo over who gets to hammer. It’s risky to do so.
I’ll just trust that my read is right and that I did my best if we don’t just auto lose tmrw.

right.

I knew you weren't serious about following the plan.

[morph the cat]

Good luck, town!