Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:52 am
Read the Greeting ISO please and tell me you want to vote that off over Roden with a clear conscience.
I...just...can‘t
I...just...can‘t
I mean...
Page 65 of 73
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:56 am
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:59 am
whatIn post 1599, Vivax wrote:This reads so genuine tho :/In post 454, Greeting wrote:Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?
I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.
I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.
Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.
there are a couple lines from greeting in other posts that feel genuine but this is one of the least genuine sounding posts ive ever read
why would he call himself LHF
why does he think that mafia is the one leading this push on him but he has no interest in arguing with them or engaging with the wagon on him at all or sorting out who is mafia on it
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:24 am
it's somewhat dismissive without sorting at all
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:29 am
The confusion with Bell talking to Loki as outlined before. Also his push on me, while ridiculous, I think is the kind of thing Town latches onto from looking too hard, not something scum makes up and expects to stick. Because if somehow that had worked, I would have flipped Town, and there would have been no way for him to talk his way out of that.In post 1598, GuiltyLion wrote:Which particular posts strike you as uninformedIn post 1597, Radical Rat wrote:I just have a hard time reading their posts and seeing them as being informed here.
And then the inconsistency re: furtive that's been brought up as a point against him... Does that make sense if Greeting is actually trying to mislim furtive? Why wouldn't he just take that stance from the start?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:32 am
Yeah I lol‘d for real at the LHF part, don‘t treat it as AI just funny as hellIn post 1602, fireisredsir wrote:whatIn post 1599, Vivax wrote:This reads so genuine tho :/In post 454, Greeting wrote:Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?
I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.
I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.
Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.
there are a couple lines from greeting in other posts that feel genuine but this is one of the least genuine sounding posts ive ever read
why would he call himself LHF
why does he think that mafia is the one leading this push on him but he has no interest in arguing with them or engaging with the wagon on him at all or sorting out who is mafia on it
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:38 pm
lmao fire I apologize again for ever scumreading and disagreeing with you this gameIn post 1602, fireisredsir wrote: what
there are a couple lines from greeting in other posts that feel genuine but this is one of the least genuine sounding posts ive ever read
why would he call himself LHF
why does he think that mafia is the one leading this push on him but he has no interest in arguing with them or engaging with the wagon on him at all or sorting out who is mafia on it
for me the thing that feels fakest is the over-the-top nature of that post. "utterly horrible", "bet my ass", "not gonna waste my time arguing with this shit push", the bravado level is off the charts.
And I called this out earlier but Greeting was like,
universally
townread the last time I played with them, so the LHF bit struck me as especially odd.Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:43 pm
on this - my thinking is 589 was made at a time when Greeting was trying to be super conciliatory after a string of negative reactions to their last posts/presence in the thread, and come across as reasonable and accommodating to improve their general standing. But then by 733 he knows he needs to make a real push/scumread, and so he draws on an argument he came up with that he thinks sounds good.In post 1604, Radical Rat wrote:And then the inconsistency re: furtive that's been brought up as a point against him... Does that make sense if Greeting is actually trying to mislim furtive? Why wouldn't he just take that stance from the start?
I agree taking that stance from the start would be
better
scum play, but I don't think the lack of taking that stance from the start can't come from scum who's making an error. The whole idea of the argument is that Greeting was being sloppy with his trajectories, so saying "shouldn't he have been more consistent?" doesn't really refute that IMO. I don't consider this mistake so egregious it would never come from scum, it was only toDay when rereading his ISO that I noticed it at all.Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:44 pm
and again I'd pose the question back to you, how does town go from "I understand why furtive has this attitude, I've done that as town before" to "There is no real reason for town to act like this"? Like I just can't square that as a genuine, organic progression
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:19 pm
See, the way I read it is that 589 was made while Greeting was still in shame/apology mode for their outburst. They felt bad about what happened, and as you said were trying to be super conciliatory, just more for emotional reason than tactical reasons.
Then 733 is him looking back and going "Actually wait, accusing me of faking here is super uncalled for, I shouldn't have been okay with that"
I've had similar reactions to things IRL that way, where based on my current mental/emotional state I'll be more/less likely to accept shitty behavior, so I don't have a hard time believing it here, especially in the context of Greeting discussing a mental health issue making him prone to emotional outbursts
Then 733 is him looking back and going "Actually wait, accusing me of faking here is super uncalled for, I shouldn't have been okay with that"
I've had similar reactions to things IRL that way, where based on my current mental/emotional state I'll be more/less likely to accept shitty behavior, so I don't have a hard time believing it here, especially in the context of Greeting discussing a mental health issue making him prone to emotional outbursts
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:40 pm
I was in a game once where a playee was completely wooden whenever he either discussed reads or talked about the game. He also happened to be extremely physically ill att but whenever he talked about that, he was totally genuine. He wound up flipping scum.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:42 pm
I have absolutely no doubt that Greeting was telling the truth about his mental heakth issues. That doesn’t maje him town.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:46 pm
In post 1519, Radical Rat wrote:In post 318, Greeting wrote:In post 316, Bell wrote:Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.What? I'm notIn post 317, Bell wrote:Ah andante.Andantenor an alt.In post 391, Greeting wrote:I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.In post 333, Bell wrote:*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.
Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?
I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.
As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.
Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.
What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?
@RR, why no comment on this post?In post 1530, Loki Dokie wrote:Oh and look who was also in this game - that took placeIn post 1528, Loki Dokie wrote:Spoiler:
Subject: KTaNE [game over!]
There is absolutely no way this happened because both Greeting and Bell were in KTANE - a very recent game, so why would Greeting think that Bell’s memory is so bad that he’d forget that Greeting was also in that game.Datisi wrote:
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes
still talking:
Spoiler:
explo-dead:
Spoiler:
events & votecounts:
Spoiler:5 months ago. Did you all guessAndante?
So Greeting also apparently thought that Bell also forgot that Andante was also in KTANE.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:03 pm
I think you misread, it was that they struggled with giving leeway to people with issuesIn post 1611, Loki Dokie wrote:I have absolutely no doubt that Greeting was telling the truth about his mental heakth issues. That doesn’t maje him town.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:30 am
In post 1610, Loki Dokie wrote:I was in a game once where a playee was completely wooden whenever he either discussed reads or talked about the game. He also happened to be extremely physically ill att but whenever he talked about that, he was totally genuine. He wound up flipping scum.
You're missing the point. Greeting isn't Town because he has mental health issues, it's just that I believe the inconsistency on understanding furtive doubting them makes more sense from an emotional angle than a logical one, and doesn't really look like scum making a targeted push.In post 1611, Loki Dokie wrote:I have absolutely no doubt that Greeting was telling the truth about his mental heakth issues. That doesn’t maje him town.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:45 am
Because I'm juggling a lot lately and forgot to, but yeah Greeting shares exactly that concern, so clearly he didn't forget. Which makes it even stranger of an interaction to try to fake. I would think it looks like self-conscious scum if it weren't for Bell already being known scum.Loki Dokie wrote:In post 1519, Radical Rat wrote:In post 318, Greeting wrote:In post 316, Bell wrote:Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.What? I'm notIn post 317, Bell wrote:Ah andante.Andantenor an alt.In post 391, Greeting wrote:I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.In post 333, Bell wrote:*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.
Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?
I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.
As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.
Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.
What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?@RR, why no comment on this post?In post 1530, Loki Dokie wrote:Oh and look who was also in this game - that took placeIn post 1528, Loki Dokie wrote:Spoiler:
Subject: KTaNE [game over!]
There is absolutely no way this happened because both Greeting and Bell were in KTANE - a very recent game, so why would Greeting think that Bell’s memory is so bad that he’d forget that Greeting was also in that game.Datisi wrote:
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes
still talking:
Spoiler:
explo-dead:
Spoiler:
events & votecounts:
Spoiler:5 months ago. Did you all guessAndante?
So Greeting also apparently thought that Bell also forgot that Andante was also in KTANE.
In post 319, Greeting wrote:Eh, shouldn't have bolded her as she's not even in this game. Anyway, I am surprised that you would think this, considering that I remember you from a past game where we played together. And Andante was in it as well.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:56 am
I also believe that as well but my previous point about the sick dude who was as genuine af discussing all that, remains unchanged.In post 1613, Vivax wrote:I think you misread, it was that they struggled with giving leeway to people with issuesIn post 1611, Loki Dokie wrote:I have absolutely no doubt that Greeting was telling the truth about his mental heakth issues. That doesn’t maje him town.
Scum are only fake about making reads, takes on the game, etc. - not about anything not specifically related to it. I once had a legit meltdown in a game as scum because I sincerely thought I was being trolled. I know it’s hard to understand how I could logically think that as scum but for some reason I sincerely believed that I was. Being genuine - In GENERAL - doesn’t make you town.
If I’m scum, I can discuss anything unrelated to actual reads and be completely genuine about that because scum only actually needs to fake that. It’s a complete myth that scum necessarily fakes their emotions and when you look at Roden’s ISO, it sounds far more genuine - specifically anything reads related, than does Greeting.
I would seriously love to hear arguments from either you or RR about why you think Roden is being fake? Why does scum!Roden make that post about not understanding why Kitty was flipped? Do you read that as scum posturing or as genuine confusion?
As I have already stated, I unvoted you because I had doubts on you being scum but I also had doubts on Kitty, which is why I didn’t vote either but I would have. - in a heartbeat - voted Greeting, had that wagon actually been viable.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:15 am
Spoiler:
But my point was that all three of them were in a game five months ago, so why would Greeting seriously think that Bell could ever mistake him for Andante?
It would be different if the three of them had never played together but Bell was specifically asking me - an alt of an account he’s never played with - if I was Andante, which actually makes sense but not so much with Greeting who was in KTANE with both Bell and Andante. I also think it odd that Greeting never brought up that game either. Had Greeting actually said, “hey Bell, how could you possibly think I’m Andante, remember KTHANE?” or words to that effect, I might actually but this but it was only five months ago and he hasn’t played that many games, so it really shouldn’t be that hard for him to recall that game. I also don’t even understand how anyone thought that Bell was referring to anyone other than me because I think one of the first things I posted was that I was an alt, right?
I should probably check the timestamps of when that occurred and Bell initially asked me but I do think it’s fairly obvious he was referring to me anyway.
At any rate, In White Flag I was scum with Gamma who was playing under an alt and I had no idea it was him. He came up with some crazy idea in the scum pt, that I should try to alt out him in the main thread or something but I nixed it. But I would have never known it was him, had he not outed is my point and he wanted to exploit it in order to believably distance us. So yeah, I could definitely see that as a gambit like Ari has suggested.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:59 am
He DID say that though. 319, like I quoted.In post 1617, Loki Dokie wrote:Had Greeting actually said, “hey Bell, how could you possibly think I’m Andante, remember KTHANE?” or words to that effect, I might actually but this but it was only five months ago and he hasn’t played that many games, so it really shouldn’t be that hard for him to recall that game
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:04 am
Maybe if Bell actually WERE addressing Greeting, but a gambit like this makes no sense in a situation where neither player actually is an alt, and one isn't even actually talking to the other.In post 1617, Loki Dokie wrote:At any rate, In White Flag I was scum with Gamma who was playing under an alt and I had no idea it was him. He came up with some crazy idea in the scum pt, that I should try to alt out him in the main thread or something but I nixed it. But I would have never known it was him, had he not outed is my point and he wanted to exploit it in order to believably distance us. So yeah, I could definitely see that as a gambit like Ari has suggested.
"I'll pretend that I think Bell is trying to figure out my main, despite not being an alt and Bell obviously talking about Loki! That'll get us Town PointsTM!"
The irony that if this was a ploy, it is now working isn't lost on me, but even so I don't see it being either a planned distance attempt, or something that happens naturally when they're aligned together.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:08 am
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Proof that Greeting can look pretty genuine as scum.
Proof that Greeting can look pretty genuine as scum.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:17 am
True but that doesn’t necessarily prove I’m wrong. Does it really sound logical that Greeting would actually think this?In post 1618, Radical Rat wrote:He DID say that though. 319, like I quoted.In post 1617, Loki Dokie wrote:Had Greeting actually said, “hey Bell, how could you possibly think I’m Andante, remember KTHANE?” or words to that effect, I might actually but this but it was only five months ago and he hasn’t played that many games, so it really shouldn’t be that hard for him to recall that game
Like I just showed, Gamma wanted me to do this distancing gambit in WF where I out his alt, so people would clearly never think we were SvS.
I nixed it because I didn’t think it would look believable in part because I had no idea the alt was Gamma until he literally told me in our scum PT.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 am
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36081In post 1620, Loki Dokie wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Proof that Greeting can look pretty genuine as scum.
Town!Greeting, just for contrast.
Notice all of the extremely nuanced takes and not a single one look remotely robotic.
Also, Roden is an extremely calculated, methodical scumplayer and I would argue that Dann was likely seriously underestimating his scumgame.
For example, I tend to make way more stupid posts in general as town, because I’m obviously more aware of how I look like as scum and I think it likely that could also be true for Roden as well.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:02 am
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36081
Another Greeting towngame.
Like he is really really obvtown here.
Another Greeting towngame.
Like he is really really obvtown here.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:43 am
finally re-reading Roden in ISOIn post 728, Roden wrote:Also what caused you to join the first Done/Greeting wagon but avoid the second one?
I like these questions a lot. The first one I feel is less likely to come from scum because it's not effective at defending Kitty (esp if scum!Roden knows Ari is town and can dunk on caught scum), and all it's going to do is serve to make Ari look less aligned with KT if she answers it. It really only makes sense to me as scum-agenda if Ari is also scum, and I think Ari's just town here, so it's not a beneficial question for scum to ask.
The second question also looks a lot more like genuine scum hunting. If Roden is scum, then Don/Greeting is a miselim, so again all this would do is make Ari look townier if she answers it, I don't think that question is likely to make Ari suddenly rejoin a miselim wagon.