[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Rajam]

ok, I don't know if I'm in the right place or if I'm doing this right, but I'm creating a Themed Mafia game for 19 players. The Theme is "Hunter X Hunter", and I like crazy mechanics almost to the point that sometimes the game doesn't even look like a Mafia game. Basically:

I don't like Vanilla Roles. Everyone has a certain kind of ability
I'm planning on adding a "Buy Phase" previous to each Day Phase. Basically players can buy cards that can help them in the game.

I'd say I have 50%~55% of the game advanced, and my major concern is balance of course. I've already modded 4 mafia games in a chilean forum (where spanish is the main language). I also want to receive some ideas on abilities, and cards "abilities" plus prices and stuff.

Although Hunter X Hunter knowledge is not necessary, it's recommended.

Anyone interested in revewing what I have so far and help me with what's left, send me a PM please.

Thanks in advance.

[Twomz]

This thread is for posting open setups, you want the setup review thread (also stickied).

[Rajam]

thanks, I'll check there.

[Mr. Flay]

This may all be academic since the wiki says the game is broken for certain endgames, but I'm confused by the setup for Crush Nightless (6p).

1 Godfather (vengeful-style)
1 Mafia Goon
1 Lyncher (who is informed of his target)
3 Townies (one of whom is unknowingly the lyncher's target)
Nightless.

If the target is lynched, the game is over and the lyncher wins.
If the godfather is lynched, the goon dies with him.
Death of all mafia isn't game over; town still tries to lynch the lyncher.
But a final 2 situation of lyncher+target is a town win.

The last line is what confuses me. Why would that be a

town

win, with them all dead? I'm guessing it's supposed to say Lyncher Win?

[TheLonging]

Yeah it's probably a typo

[Mr. Flay]

Oh wait; actually reading Open 37, I think the logic is "Lyncher can't get a lynch when there's just two, therefore they fail and Town wins". They're not all dead, because Target = Town. Given that Town only has a 27% EV, that makes some more sense now... still think it could go either way, and not sure if my math is right. Where the hell is Kelly Chen??!?

Also, LOL at the Lyncher in Open 37 thinking they played for the draw...

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

How about this?

Tracker Town (Night start)

11 Trackers
1 Mafia Tracker
2 Mafia Goons


basically, everyone is a toned down cop, where the result could be helpful if a tracker follows someone who targets the killed player, but it also allows for the possibility of false suspicion on another tracker who targeted the dead player. The 2 Goons are actually a liability, because in the beginning, one will not have an action to perform, since there is only one kill per night. thoughts?

[Alduskkel]

I think you would have a problem if you did a similar thing to what broke Texas Justice: Have every Tracker target the person below them (bottom targets the top). Now the 2 Mafia Goons will get picked off (they'll either be revealed as targeting no one, or targeting the night kill) and it'll become Nightless with just the Mafia Tracker remaining.

Even if you made all of the Mafia into Trackers, it would still just be 11-3 Nightless.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

hmm...didn't think of that. ah well, I'll go back to the drawing board

[Max]

Tracker Town (Night start)

8 Trackers - One Shot
3 Ninja Trackers (Town) - One Shot
3 Trackers League (Receive List of all Night Actions, including from untrackables)

[Mr. Flay]

Huh? Where's the Mafia?

[Max]

Oh, the mafia are the "trackers league".

[Mr. Flay]

Do they get a NK?

[Max]

I think they should. It's at their discretion whether they kill night one. If the ninja trackers don't know who they are then the game opens up substantially. Even if they did a cyclic track night one it would be thwarted by the mafia's "super-tracker" capabilities.

[Twomz]

Kingmaker Baton Pass

11 Townspeople
1 King for a Day
5 Mafia

Rules are same as kingmaker except instead of there being a kingmaker, the kingship is passed on when a player is killed. If mafia attempt to pass to another mafia member, the one passing the baton is killed (if mafia outnumber the town they can suicide chain to win the game). Note, the first king is guaranteed to be town.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok how about Ability Mafia
4 cops
2 docs
1 one shot day vig

1 Goon
2 Mafia PGO's

[Andrius]

ok how about Ability Mafia
4 cops
2 docs
1 one shot day vig

1 Goon
2 Mafia PGO's

Ok. Let's take this one step at a time.
D1 will most likely be a townie lynch.
Also, there will be a shitload of Cops, because the scum will be forced to claim Cop/Doc.
Massclaim D1 would be HELL. All scum would claim Doc/Cop, which would make HELL.
D1 = town lynch.

N1 is a shit-storm.
If the town is unlucky, 2 or more Cops target the PGOs and are killed. With the nightkill (assuming it goes through), the game is over, as the mafia equals the number of townies.

BREAKING STRATEGY:

MASSCLAIM D1. All Cops claim. D2 they reveal their results. Mass town-confirmage makes the game uber-hard.

If the scum have PGOs they shouldn't have a NK.
And really, 4 Cops is too much. Mass town-confirmage would win the day.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok no goon 2 cops 2 townies

[Andrius]

ok no goon 2 cops 2 townies

Dropping the Goon doesn't help much.
Hell, it doesn't help at all, really.
You still have two scum PGOs, which will average about one extra kill a night, besides for the normal NK.

You still have 2 Cops and 2 Docs. The Cops are pretty much useless. The only people they can investigate are scum PGOs, who kill them on-site. The Cop would have to claim in-thread, announce his NP target, in order to actually get the town to benefit from him. At that, he's sacrificing himself.

Scum PGO is just a bad idea.

I'm totally willing to help you with setups, but a scum PGO isn't something that will work in an Open game.

[Andrius]

If mafia attempt to pass to another mafia member, the one passing the baton is killed (if mafia outnumber the town they can suicide chain to win the game).

This part is just confusing. :S Clarify please?

[Twomz]

The mafia can't just pass between them, or else they'll just go Goon A kills townie 1 and passes to Goon B, who kills townie 2 and passes to Goon A... ect. So, if Goon A passes to Goon B, Goon A dies.

If there are more mafia then there are town, the they can pass and die and still win.

[Beefster]

Amnesia Mafia

• 3 Mafia Goons
  
• 1 Amnesiac Doctor
  
• 1 Amnesiac Vigilante
  
• 1 Amnesiac Roleblocker
  
• 1 Friend of the Doctor
  
• 1 Friend of the Vigilante
  
• 1 Friend of the Roleblocker
  
• 4 Vanilla Townies

Each of the power roles know they have one, but don't know which one they have. Instead, their corresponding "friend" is told what role they have. The friends have no special abilities.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok no goon 2 cops 2 townies

Dropping the Goon doesn't help much.
Hell, it doesn't help at all, really.
You still have two scum PGOs, which will average about one extra kill a night, besides for the normal NK.

You still have 2 Cops and 2 Docs. The Cops are pretty much useless. The only people they can investigate are scum PGOs, who kill them on-site. The Cop would have to claim in-thread, announce his NP target, in order to actually get the town to benefit from him. At that, he's sacrificing himself.

Scum PGO is just a bad idea.

I'm totally willing to help you with setups, but a scum PGO isn't something that will work in an Open game.

Ok how about
2 mafia PGOs

1 doc
4 cops
3 trackers

[Nobody Special]

Amnesia Mafia

• 3 Mafia Goons
  
• 1 Amnesiac Doctor
  
• 1 Amnesiac Vigilante
  
• 1 Amnesiac Roleblocker
  
• 1 Friend of the Doctor
  
• 1 Friend of the Vigilante
  
• 1 Friend of the Roleblocker
  
• 4 Vanilla Townies

Each of the power roles know they have one, but don't know which one they have. Instead, their corresponding "friend" is told what role they have. The friends have no special abilities.

So... does the PR tell the Friend who they want to target? And the Friend submits the action? Or does the Friend submit actions based on their best guess of what the PR wants?

I'm not at all clear how this would work in practice. Do the PRs know who their Friends are?

[Beefster]

The PR's don't know anything about their roles except that they have one of those 3. Their night action would be something generic, like "/target Nobody Special"
They would have to figure out their role indirectly by first figuring out who their friend is, then looking for hints on their role. If the roles knew who their friends were, you would basically have 3 masonries which would probably ruin the balance.