Mafiascum.net

So... three days turned into 36 hours and I have internet again. I’m about to pass out but I’ll read the game when I wake up.

State of Nacho right now seems to be that there are two pivot points currently: the first and most important is Farkran's alignment, and the second is Bingle's alignment.

My preference currently is to lynch Chemist because I believe I have the game solved. Lynching Chemist now does two things - 1) if correct, it removes plenty of friction (in particular surrounding Replica and Farkran) and gets them reanalyzing. 2) If incorrect, it proves that my worldview is incorrect and so there's something shady in the state of Undertale. I also thought it did the same for Psyche but apparently his solve is different from mine. My second preference is a Hectic/Psyche Spare simply because I feel the case for them being town is the strongest and we definitely need to spare one of these two before they both die by bullets. My third preference is a Bingle lynch; forces me to focus in on where my reads are wrong, not AS helpful (if he's scum Replica reanalyzes, if he's town a bunch of people do), but if we aren't going to spare the people who seem to be the likeliest of being town then I think we need a chance to see if we're on the right track or not.

The only way that I think we reach some sort of resolution wrt Farkran's alignment is some kind of appointment where a couple of people either metadive or chat about his posts as a whole. I am reluctant doing such a thing because I have limited time and don't really want to spend time doing something completely useless, but will likely do the thing anyways, just not within the next 48 hours.

With Bingle it likely takes time - does he do something, does he float in the ether eventually. Will he help us catch scum? So I'm willing to lynch here, I just see waiting on him to get more than a day of posting in to be a better bet then killing him now.

It's a shame that there haven't been two or three people reading and engaging with Farkran's content significantly in more than a superficial manner, and a shame that no one has bothered to see how this game compares to his scum ones.

Chemist scum fits fine with my worldview that it's Farkran+one of you/Chemist/Psyche.

That was a lot of words basically stating...I want the same lynch and don't have any additional thoughts on anything at all. Bonus that for some reason you somehow think that appointing a crack squad of dedicated Farkran metadivers is the proper way to test his alignment, whereas for others the tool of choice is a lynch.

Like the fact that you say "With Bingle it takes time", whereas for Farkran it would just...take an entire team of dedicated Farkran readers...to justify why the lynch is acceptable for Bingle and not for Farkran.

Straight up lynching Chemist doesn't accomplish anything you're suggesting. He has so few associatives and is in nearly everyone's null pile minus your own. If he's scum it helps but if he's town it basically tells us jackshit. How that flip would solve anything between me/Farkran, who have discussed nothing about him at all, is a complete mystery to me. It tests your read and basically only your read.

ill admit that i haven't taken replica''s case seriously yet
he's provided a useful guide to it recently and i'll engage with it soon - it's my top priority for this game

I have nothing new to say. I don't know what you're expecting from me, so I reiterated my position. I'm not going to waste my time pounding my head against a brick wall re: you or Farkran; I don't believe that it's going to be productive in the least bit. Your meta on Farkran was superficial and incredibly biased; I would like to spend a day diving a little deeper - pointing out a couple things to you, you pointing out a couple things to me. This is the only way I can see my kind being changed.

Bingle just got here today. There's a chance he does something that make people change his mind on him. That's not going to happen on Farkran; either people on one side of the fence get taken out of the game or people convince other people on his alignment; I don't think that engaging him on things is particularly useful since it's just more of the same.

It is a very good thing that I explicitly said I wasn't comfortable making a case based off of meta, and instead was just highlighting that it suggests there's 0 reason to townread the slot for his pushes or convoluted bad points.

I don't blame you for not wanting to ram your head into the wall a thousand times but yeah, I absolutely expect better than a glorified proddodge. Chemist lynch isn't awful but inherently-on account of his playstyle-has little basis. This is a dude we are probably going to have to PoE. You were the one that townread his Pine/Asreel reads to begin with, I had to how awful townreading him for it was before you kicked it in reverse. I do not see the strength on Chemist at all and do not see why his townflip will say literally anything to anyone except that your scumread was wrong.

There is plenty more to do for you that doesn't involve me/Farkran at all. It's called actually trying on Bingle, actually trying on Amrun, actually trying on Chara, actually questioning people and trying to get into their heads, or actually trying to sell us a lynch with something that is not blatantly self-centered garbage.

Like, now you say you want another day to dig deeper, and I hope you deliver. There was 0 reason from your posts earlier to suspect you were going to do anything else today other than go through the voting flowchart.

In post 1632, Nachomamma8 wrote:Bingle just got here today. There's a chance he does something that make people change his mind on him. That's not going to happen on Farkran; either people on one side of the fence get taken out of the game or people convince other people on his alignment; I don't think that engaging him on things is particularly useful since it's just more of the same.

And like, this goes completely against your point-this gives much more reason to test my or Farkran's alignment via lynch than Bingle's, who can be townread or scumread at a moment's notice than permanently sitting in the controversial, divided ether.

You say you've solved this game but I see literally no reason to think you, Nacho, have believed yourself to have solved this game. There is 0 passion, 0 investigation, 0 initiative, and 0 doublechecking beyond "we'll see when Chemist flips"

I missed the point a bit earlier that you did want the extra day for Bingle, even if you're still willing to lynch him. I guess that's fine.

Rest stands.

In post 1626, Nachomamma8 wrote:State of Nacho right now seems to be that there are two pivot points currently: the first and most important is Farkran's alignment, and the second is Bingle's alignment.

My preference currently is to lynch Chemist because I believe I have the game solved. Lynching Chemist now does two things - 1) if correct, it removes plenty of friction (in particular surrounding Replica and Farkran) and gets them reanalyzing. 2) If incorrect, it proves that my worldview is incorrect and so there's something shady in the state of Undertale. I also thought it did the same for Psyche but apparently his solve is different from mine. My second preference is a Hectic/Psyche Spare simply because I feel the case for them being town is the strongest and we definitely need to spare one of these two before they both die by bullets. My third preference is a Bingle lynch; forces me to focus in on where my reads are wrong, not AS helpful (if he's scum Replica reanalyzes, if he's town a bunch of people do), but if we aren't going to spare the people who seem to be the likeliest of being town then I think we need a chance to see if we're on the right track or not.

What's most concerning about this post is that Nacho points out the two most pivotal things as Farkran and Bingle alignment, but makes no mention of Hectic's alignment. That's literally the most pivotal thing about this game, for multiple reasons, including but not limited to sorting me, Chara, Nacho and to a lesser extent Replica.

Bingle flip doesn't even compare to Hectic's, and i really dislike Nacho waving around it as if Hectic was somehow already sorted (as town), yet sparing him is only second to lynch Chemist, which would accomplish less than flipping bingle in terms of information provided.

The disagreement in reads could justify the lynch order between bingle and chemist, but no way it would explain the lack of importance given to a Hectic flip while at the same time having him townlocked, but not enough to put his spare on top priority. This is something i could only expect from me and my drastical opposition to sparing, not nacho.

I can see team Nacho/Hectic going for a vanity push on Chemist at this point in time with the sole purpose of promoting the easiest, plausible day resolution i.e. sparing scum!Hectic, because that's what town is leaning to do.

I'm sorry, but we're not moving forward with a bingle flip, there's too much shit revolving around hectic and i'm strongly convinced we can only find scum in and around there. From the wagons that formed during d1 and the interactions between Hectic/Chara/Nacho, it makes absolutely no sense that there isn't scum among those three.

Today's lynch is always Hectic or Farkran. Pick your preference.

HURT: Farkran as i said, mislynching town is better than sparing scum in this specific game. I will obviously update to a Hectic fight if someone wakes up to that.

Bingle is not the correct lynch for today. Except the resistance displayed by Replica and Bingle individual scum equity - which has just fallen down several levels of magnitude since he got back without unvoting me; it only required a quick VC read to grasp the current situation, so it's not just because of limited internet access: i doubt he would take his time to post, 2 days before the deadline, without even checking the easiest and quickest thing to assess the new gamestate - there's not really anything worth lynching there, except a generic flip, which however still contrasts with my reads of both Almidia and Replica. Bingle is probably town, and not a useful lynch. We can likely solve this game by lynching Hectic > Chara/Nacho. At this point i could almost consider sparing outside that group, i'd just rather not in case i am immensely wrong. Flipping them is just so much easier and involves less risks.

golly
id laugh irl if i weren't playing this game

well i wanted an obvtown unlikely to get NKed

>"farkran is too stubborn"

>Literally everyone else in this game fails to reconsider the most obviously scummy interactions around a general consensus townread slot when the ONLY one pushing hectic is me and you are ALSO townreading me. I'm sure that scum is just afk and throwing, because that's all that any scum that ever existed is capable of doing.

Good luck sparing the slot who is townreaded by everyone

HEAL: Hectic

Spare Votecount 2.7

Hectic -----------------------------------

(5)

Chara, Nachomamma8, Replica, Psyche, Hectic

Replica ---------------------------------

Farkran --------------------------------

(2)

Chemist1422, Bingle

Amrun ----------------------------------

Chara -----------------------------------

Nachomamma8 ------------------------

Chemist1422 ---------------------------

Bingle----------------------------------

Psyche -------------------------------------

Not sparing:

- (2) Farkran, Amrun

Fight Votecount 2.7

Hectic ----------------------------------

Replica ----------------------------------

Farkran ---------------------------------

(3)

Hectic, Replica, Farkran

Amrun ----------------------------------

Chara -----------------------------------

Nachomamma8 ------------------------

(1)

Chemist1422

Chemist1422 ---------------------------

(1)

Nachomamma8

Bingle--------------------------------------

(1)

Amrun

Psyche -------------------------------------

Not Fighting:

- (3) Psyche, Chara, Bingle

That kill makes no sense, I'm highkey mad it wasn't me, and this means another day of Cats (2019) for everybody.

I'm probably looking to spare Bingle today then lynch in Fark/Chemist/Nacho tomorrow.

I guess in honor of Psyche I actually have to try to read Amrun for alignment now instead of coasting off of us having similar reads

Thanks, I hate it

I honestly don't know how else i could contribute to this game. If you think that quickspare is town, good luck to you all.

HURT: Chara

If it's not Chara, i'm going for Nacho.

I have already cased enough for a solve, the game is still salvageable if i am correct. I am not up to have another week of discussing why sparing again is immensely wrong though, so if you are not yet willing to listen, call me when you are done. I still want to win though, i'll answer when asked to.

If anyone is interested, i think right now we can find town in Bingle > Amrun = Replica > Chemist, and one out of Chara/Nacho. Hectic quickhammering when we were waiting for Bingle to speak when he had just returned from a shortened V/LA is huge townpoints to bingle imo. And i think Psyche was killed to remove an obstacle to a Chara spare.