In post 1623, Infinity 324 wrote:Check out 473 and the engagement afterwards. VP clearly is aware of the fact that I don't have scumreads, but drops the whole thing until someone else brings it up much later.
So you're saying it's my responsibility to make you scumhunt?
You say nothing changed about your play. That seems to be the problem. And I believe I brought this up around page 50 and just earlier today.
Don't mistake kindness for weakness. Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt doesn't mean I'm not willing to vote you out.
In post 1623, Infinity 324 wrote:Check out 473 and the engagement afterwards. VP clearly is aware of the fact that I don't have scumreads, but drops the whole thing until someone else brings it up much later.
So you're saying it's my responsibility to make you scumhunt?
You say nothing changed about your play. That seems to be the problem. And I believe I brought this up around page 50 and just earlier today.
Don't mistake kindness for weakness. Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt doesn't mean I'm not willing to vote you out.
You're correct that you brought it up on your own.
Not your responsibility to make me scumhunt, but it is your responsibility to follow up on your own solving of my slot. Now I'm wondering why you didn't start pushing me around page 50.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:16 am
by VP Baltar
In post 1626, Infinity 324 wrote:Not your responsibility to make me scumhunt, but it is your responsibility to follow up on your own solving of my slot. Now I'm wondering why you didn't start pushing me around page 50.
There is a lot of jabroni play in this game, what can I say.
I don't have a good answer for why other than it wasn't really my ideal yeet today. I spent more time trying to persuade people to my point of view and you kind of fell off the radar, I'll admit. I don't find taylor very compelling. Like I said, D1 I'm going to make the best play for town I can. I'd still be down for a gerain yeet. Less so for Koba. Those appear to be the three legitimate options at this point.
I went after shelly early game, but I like gamma's entrance into the game. He seems willing to mix it up with people. I'd have him in my townish column atm, but still lots to hear from him.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:24 am
by DkKoba
VOTE: infinity yeah sure bud
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:27 am
by Tayl0r Swift
i hate monkeys.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:27 am
by Tayl0r Swift
especially *vintage* monkeys
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:30 am
by Tayl0r Swift
i feel a bit better about infinity now. i dont like at all that VPB is pushing on infinity and promising to go after me tomorrow on a green flip. thats setting up a chain of lims.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:31 am
by VP Baltar
In post 1634, Tayl0r Swift wrote:i feel a bit better about infinity now. i dont like at all that VPB is pushing on infinity and promising to go after me tomorrow on a green flip. thats setting up a chain of lims.
So you're saying you think infinity is gonna flip green? Nice walk back
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:32 am
by VP Baltar
Why specifically do you feel better on infinity? And don't say tone
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:33 am
by Tayl0r Swift
tone
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:35 am
by VP Baltar
UNVOTE: VOTE: taylor
Cool. Very serious about this. Taylor is cheeky scum.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:36 am
by Tayl0r Swift
UNVOTE: VOTE: VPB
Cool. Very serious about this. VP is uncheeky scum.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:38 am
by VP Baltar
Taylor has pushed for an infinity yeet all game, and then tries to claim uncertainty at the last possible moment the wagon gets real. Classic scum play.
She also tried to claim she couldn't possibly state a clear case on infinity when I pushed her because I made a comment about her list being bad. AtE everywhere, lack of responsibility.
Yeet Taylor and prosper.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:39 am
by Infinity 324
Lol taylor is town
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:40 am
by VP Baltar
Taylor also spent every opportunity cutting into the geraintm wagon, claiming we are going to get a miracle performance from them tomorrow. Wants to keep the game state unsteady right up to deadline.
I could certainly see scum!VP here, the main reason being he often doesn't follow through all the way with his thought processes from earlier in the game. Part of the problem is that he admits to being not totally open with his reads, but I would expect some more questioning relating the concerns with certain slots (shelly and me for example). In some spots, it feels like he's being manipulative or keeping his options open for a mislim. However, the way he described being a journalist influencing his playstyle can explain some of this, since he likes to ask player A about their thoughts on player B a lot without giving his own opinion. I can see a towny mindset shining through in a few spots, which also gives me pause. Some potentially relevant quotes:
In post 361, Infinity 324 wrote:Fair enough, and I agree that it was clear you thought it had merit. But you didn’t give an opinion or commit yourself to anything, it felt kinda like throwing shade to me.
I mean, the way I tend to see it is that town is a push and pull with other town players. Koba was doing a good job pushing shelly hard. I wanted to notch that pressure up a bit (or at least reinforce Koba was not alone in suspicion), but felt no need to take over the inquisition. I think it is fine for town to play supporting roles when the situation calls for it.
This post seemed to match up with his play at the time and felt like a towny way to go about it.
In post 624, Infinity 324 wrote:I don't agree they're open ended, she literally said scum is likely 3 out of a group of 4. Don't see why targeting high activity slots or PoE is scummy, even this early (I love PoE). I get there's a playstyle barrier here, do your best to explain it. My only read on taylor is a light townlean since in a recently finished scum game she seemed to care more about what people thought of her.
Curious why you see this slot as townlean when she called you scum for pretty weak ass reasons.
This feels manipulative to me in retrospect.
In post 650, VP Baltar wrote:Like, I want andres to be town here, but I'm not seeing as much fire in the belly as I might expect. I don't know what his D1 play is usually like though.
Follows up on the andres read, which is good. I do think the way he's approaching this read has been a bit odd though, since he hasn't questioned/engaged andres a lot. Could be setting up a possible mislim down the line.
In post 683, shellyc wrote:balt what is the progression on me? If you SR'd me do you think I bussed by starting that wagon?
Did I answer this?
Im still a bit skeptical of you, but flash wagoning math was protown. I don't think I'd want yeet you today, even though I said that earlier. Willing to hear you out some more and see if I was wrong earlier
I don't like this, there's not much initiative in terms of solving shelly and he sorta just drops the read.
In post 838, VP Baltar wrote:Not too late for scum to bus Math here. Premium seats are almost filled and that speed hammer is gonna look bad!
Buy now!
This feels towny lol
In post 891, VP Baltar wrote:
Yes, I would still rather yeet someone we agree is scummiest.
I think it's a complete waste of a day to some degree to have to yeet n_m, but it is also very annoying behavior to encourage. Last resort for the day if needed I guess
This feels like keeping options open and I don't like it.
In post 1114, JacksonVirgo wrote:VP gives me pause as their tone gives off an almost authority like vibe which makes me think they play good as scum.
Registration and ID please.
This sort of feels like town on town, but Koba, I'd be interested in you responding to the broad strokes of Jackson's case if you will.
This feels very journalist-y, which does fit with the VP's description of his playstyle. (There are a bunch of spots where VP does this kind of thing). More likely to be town-indicative, since it's resorting to his natural style instead of faking.
In post 1275, Andresvmb wrote:What I would say is that I would have maybe preferred to have seen these reasons you’re articulating now more clearly stated at that time.
This tends to be my play. It's probably a personality trait from my job (journalist). I'll often hold back initial reasoning a bit because it can prompt reactions. Always happy to be clear though if asked.
Anyhow, I'm biased about the TR on me because I think my own town play is pretty clear most times. I always get some suspicion or concern though because I play OK as scum too.
The bias on the TR is more likely to come from town since scum may not think of that.
In post 1461, Tayl0r Swift wrote:im a tonereader mostly. normally i mindmeld with infinity, and infinity generally comes of as obvtown to me. that isnt happening here. and the tone feels off. for more concrete things, see my iso.
I'm on my phone and not ISOing anyone atm. If you have something more substantial than tone/meta, spit it out.
I'm not asking you to make a wall. Literal bullet points will do and I'm not asking you to back it up with evidence. Just tell me
Sort of looks like he's trying to get taylor to "convince" him to vote me. I do think he seems to be looking for justification to SR me in some spots, rather than just saying that he's willing to compromise on me.
Need to think about this a bit more, but leaning scum atm.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:54 am
by Tayl0r Swift
In post 1642, VP Baltar wrote:Taylor also spent every opportunity cutting into the geraintm wagon, claiming we are going to get a miracle performance from them tomorrow. Wants to keep the game state unsteady right up to deadline.
hmm now youre misrepping me to discredit me. thats a bad faith push.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:08 am
by DkKoba
then what are you looking for from ger
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:15 am
by Almost50
Now aren't you all happy to see me? I know you are.
I see 4 new names (unless alts), and another 3 who haven't played me in a while.
To the 4: I have a tinging sense of sarcasm, and I am sometimes mean (ask the mod).
However, if you show some effort (and avoid asking really silly questions) I may consider giving you a pass (after all I've got more fish to fry than I can actually feed on)
1 scum in these 3 (not a rule of thumb, but is usually the case. You can verify in your own previous games, and I suspect you will find it's between 60%-80% that one scum is in the first 3 to post in the game)
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:24 am
by VP Baltar
@Infinity -- let me give you a clear example of why I ask people to "go on record" like that, as I would describe it.
Here is a post from my most recent game. Reckoner was scum caught in a lie D3. This post is from D5 when I started to go back over possible evidence of his buddies. We were in Xylo and I needed to find scum, since I was confirmed town and a swing vote. Gamma can vouch for my play here since he was in that Xylo.
In post 874, VP Baltar wrote:Ok, so let's entertain this for a minute. Who is your best guess at the full scum team reck?
great question. i'd probably wager 2 of the unrevealeds and then one of the claimed roles just based on probability. the extra manipulator role has to be something unclaimed since everything else is at least ACTION confirmed, but not alignment confirmed
so 2 of {gamma, skies, duppin, noraa} and 1 of {ut, ythan, haschel}
out of those, gun to my head, dont think it's gamma or ut.
This might be the revealing post we needed. Put yourself in Reck's shoes here. I forced him to tell me his scum team after he got caught lying. What are the odds he puts both of his buddies in the same grouping in this post? I would think low, particularly in the bracket where he says there are 2 scum.
If true, that means Haschel is definitely scum here. My only hang up with that vote is I don't trust duppin to sort noraa and gamma tomorrow in an open minded way.
Asking people to state their positions and why without revealing your own perspective (I was 100% convinced Reck was lying scum when I asked him for his scum team) can really yield fertile info to harvest later when you know more about the he state after flips.
It may draw attention to me earlier in the game, but I don't really care. I don't think I'm particularly easy to yeet as town.
