@Dwlee I feel so terrible about accidentally misgendering you. Please accept my sincerest apologies. I would never do that intentionally but I realize that doesn’t make it okay. <3
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:43 am
by Wallflower
I truly have tried to get an understanding of the math scumread and it still seems to boil down to what I said here?
In post 1585, Wallflower wrote:my understanding is that the main reason this matches Math-scum is the giving up on saving HEM rather than just continuing to push the townread, right? I am concerned by that too, but given the state of the game and especially HEM not even posting at the time, I can see a world where math truly feels that way.
HQ is there something I'm missing?
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:51 am
by Bellaphant
@titus, when have you actually played with me scum? My memories of our games are us both being town and you freaking out at me. Can you point me to a game where I was scum and you were town.
Also, I haven't had a red role pm in literally years, so ...that answer has me really worried.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:09 am
by Harley Quinn
In post 1626, Wallflower wrote:I truly have tried to get an understanding of the math scumread and it still seems to boil down to what I said here?
In post 1585, Wallflower wrote:my understanding is that the main reason this matches Math-scum is the giving up on saving HEM rather than just continuing to push the townread, right? I am concerned by that too, but given the state of the game and especially HEM not even posting at the time, I can see a world where math truly feels that way.
HQ is there something I'm missing?
It’s far more than that. Far more. I should pull up my posts or you can ISO me.
Math is scum because he doesn’t believe anything he says. ISO him and look at the reasoning/or more like lack there of for his reads.
Examples: His push on Dwlee has no substance behind it. He sr Gamma for “not having found town!him yet”, eventhough Gamma played identically in Koba’s mini normal where they were both town. He sr Ausuka for being “nice about maths” or something. When is being nice ever a valid scumtell and especially for Ausuka who - when is she not nice? His progression on STD went from STD lockscum to STD locktown in pretty much the blink of an eye. He posted that if ANY not ALL of Dwlee, Titus, Gamma flip scum, he would then put me or Implosive in hid PoE. However, I am now extremely confident all 3 are town.
And yes, his entire progression on HEM is not what I’ve experienced with town!Math ever. He initially called HEM his top townread but voted HEM under pressure from Aristelia. Town!Math would never allow his arm to be twisted like that to vote a genuine top tr like that. Town!Math is bullheaded and obstinate to a fault. He is also one of the most anti-survivalistic players as town and I don’t recall Math ever being willing to policy anyone. Sometimes town!Math actually gets it right like in Koba’s mini normal and other times very wrong as in White Flag but there is always substance to his reads no matter how outlandish it looks to others. ISO both games to contast them with this one. Town!Math overflows with conviction and is also consistent with his reads. Here, he seems to change his reads on a dime without rhyme or reason. Town!Math doesn’t change his reads easily and definitely never under pressure.
Also he switched his srs on both Ausuka and Ari when they either voted the way he wanted or tr him. He gave me shit for initially not voting but had no issue with bella not voting, eventhough I had the exact same reason for having not voted as she had.
He had STD and Roden as top trs but is now takinv that at least partially back with STD. He did something similar with Gamma. He referred to them both as T/T but now he’s suddenly scum because he couldn’t find town!him early enough.
There are just so many reasons why Math is scum here.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:12 am
by Harley Quinn
In post 1627, Bellaphant wrote:@titus, when have you actually played with me scum? My memories of our games are us both being town and you freaking out at me. Can you point me to a game where I was scum and you were town.
Also, I haven't had a red role pm in literally years, so ...that answer has me really worried.
Why are you not engaging at all/ let alone even addressing Gamma/Titus/Mine Math sr?
Ari addressed it and now Wallflower is as well but you seem to refuse to even address it, why is that?
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:12 am
by Titus
In post 1627, Bellaphant wrote:@titus, when have you actually played with me scum? My memories of our games are us both being town and you freaking out at me. Can you point me to a game where I was scum and you were town.
Also, I haven't had a red role pm in literally years, so ...that answer has me really worried.
I can't recall a specific game we were in together period. I just went by memory.
Since based off Math associatives, HEM is probably scum, Math wagon is extremely likely to be alltown. Why? Because Math is voting his former top “tr” HEM and HEM isn’t fighting it.
So if HEM flips red, scum is probably on that or offwagon. I think Math wagon is very likely pure. Roden is still town but it’s far better for the gamestate to lim Math first, that’s why scum is willing to sacrifice HEM, if he’s red and very likely.
I was scum in a game with a double scum wagon on d1, which was between my buddies Titus and I believe Ircher and I felt Titus had a much better chance to go the distance than Ircher, so I strategically bussed the weaker of my two buddies.
Possible. I still lean that HEM is town. Regardless, I feel your conclusion is right. Scum prefer an HEM flip over a math flip.
In post 1627, Bellaphant wrote:@titus, when have you actually played with me scum? My memories of our games are us both being town and you freaking out at me. Can you point me to a game where I was scum and you were town.
Also, I haven't had a red role pm in literally years, so ...that answer has me really worried.
I can't recall a specific game we were in together period. I just went by memory.
What are your thoughts on Math?
Pedit yes
You/me/Gamma and others have explained why Math is lockscum and she keeps ignoring those posts. I don’t understand this.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:23 am
by Bellaphant
@hq, I think math, especially this game, whether town or scum, is an easy elim. I don't think it's right for today. I'll reconsider this read later. Your posting on about math is becoming a little math posting aboout hem like.
I have no opinion on gamma really. Titus I'm concerned about, but their other scum reads reassure me a bit.
Noone seems interested in my scum reads and I don't think will be until we've flipped some or the more controversial slots. We have like a day and a half left and I just want to be done with today.
@titus I've spoken about math a lot. I don't think most people are scum reading him for reasons that I haven't seen them do as town. Also, as a competing wagon to hem who really hasn't shown a want to solve, I'm going to vote hem.
P-edit I just disagree. I'm not saying I can't be convinced, but I've explained why my read is what it is. I haven't ignored it, I've discussed it with Roden.
with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-14 01:30:00).
Lol, gee Math, I thought you and HEM were TYT and now you’re voting him?
I have laid out why Math is 99.9999% going to flip scum but it seems not everyone is reading mine, Gamma’s and Titus’ posts? If I had any doubts, I wouldn’t be saying that I’m 99.9999% sure Math is scum. He will flip scum here and if I was kingmaker, I would see to it that he was flipped today.
with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-14 01:30:00).
Also, look at these wagons, from my pov. Maths wagon is made up of my null, null scum reads and ....you. The hem wagon is made up of basically my town reads. Why is it incomprehensible to you that I'm not jumping on the math wagon, when my own experiences outside of this game, plus my own reads in this game, suggest it's a bad move?
Since based off Math associatives, HEM is probably scum, Math wagon is extremely likely to be alltown. Why? Because Math is voting his former top “tr” HEM and HEM isn’t fighting it.
So if HEM flips red, scum is probably on that or offwagon. I think Math wagon is very likely pure. Roden is still town but it’s far better for the gamestate to lim Math first, that’s why scum is willing to sacrifice HEM, if he’s red and very likely.
I was scum in a game with a double scum wagon on d1, which was between my buddies Titus and I believe Ircher and I felt Titus had a much better chance to go the distance than Ircher, so I strategically bussed the weaker of my two buddies.
Possible. I still lean that HEM is town. Regardless, I feel your conclusion is right.
Scum prefer an HEM flip over a math flip
.
It’s possible but HEM isn’t fighting it. Math is on HEM wagon for self-pres regardless and he should absolutely not get tr for it irrespective of what HEM flips.
Yep, Math wagon is almost certainly pure, HEM’s is not but if HEM is town than one scum is probably offwagon but I totally agree scum are trying to save Math regardless of HEM’s flip. HEM is either a Math buddy or scum!Math initially tmi’d him town. His not fighting his wagon in light of the developing Math wagon isn’t exactly filling me with confidence however.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:28 am
by Harley Quinn
In post 1633, Bellaphant wrote:@hq, I think math, especially this game, whether town or scum, is an easy elim. I don't think it's right for today. I'll reconsider this read later. Your posting on about math is becoming a little math posting aboout hem like.
I have no opinion on gamma really. Titus I'm concerned about, but their other scum reads reassure me a bit.
Noone seems interested in my scum reads and I don't think will be until we've flipped some or the more controversial slots. We have like a day and a half left and I just want to be done with today.
@titus I've spoken about math a lot. I don't think most people are scum reading him for reasons that I haven't seen them do as town. Also, as a competing wagon to hem who really hasn't shown a want to solve, I'm going to vote hem.
P-edit I just disagree. I'm not saying I can't be convinced, but I've explained why my read is what it is. I haven't ignored it, I've discussed it with Roden.
I’m not exactly thrilled that your responses to both mine and Titus’ very valid concerns appears to be to shade us. :/
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:30 am
by Harley Quinn
Also @Bella, in what world is Math an “easy lim” here? The resistance to that wagon is fierce unlike HEM’s by comparison. So that is just not the case at all.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:32 am
by Titus
Name one game, aside from a guilty or supposedly this game, where Math has been an easy lim. I'll wait.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:34 am
by Bellaphant
? I am concerned about Titus, as the seem to be playing differently from most times we've played together. This is just a fact.
I town read you. I'm just getting frustrated that you are doing the same thing math is doing - repeatedly asserting you are correct about a thing and getting vexed other people aren't immediately conceding to this. This is literally happening.
@hq their style of posting, especially today, I would forgive most people for voting the slot to allow the thread to breathe.
P-edit, maybe I worded this wrong. I'm specifically talking about this game. I think, if math flips town, any scum could say 'yeah but look at the random shit he was talking' and noone would scum read them for it.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:35 am
by Harley Quinn
In post 1638, Titus wrote:Name one game, aside from a guilty or supposedly this game, where Math has been an easy lim. I'll wait.
In post 1626, Wallflower wrote:I truly have tried to get an understanding of the math scumread and it still seems to boil down to what I said here?
In post 1585, Wallflower wrote:my understanding is that the main reason this matches Math-scum is the giving up on saving HEM rather than just continuing to push the townread, right? I am concerned by that too, but given the state of the game and especially HEM not even posting at the time, I can see a world where math truly feels that way.
HQ is there something I'm missing?
It’s far more than that. Far more. I should pull up my posts or you can ISO me.
Math is scum because he doesn’t believe anything he says. ISO him and look at the reasoning/or more like lack there of for his reads.
Examples:
His push on Dwlee has no substance behind it. He sr Gamma for “not having found town!him yet”, eventhough Gamma played identically in Koba’s mini normal where they were both town. He sr Ausuka for being “nice about maths” or something. When is being nice ever a valid scumtell and especially for Ausuka who - when is she not nice? His progression on STD went from STD lockscum to STD locktown in pretty much the blink of an eye. He posted that if ANY not ALL of Dwlee, Titus, Gamma flip scum, he would then put me or Implosive in hid PoE. However, I am now extremely confident all 3 are town.
And yes, his entire progression on HEM is not what I’ve experienced with town!Math ever. He initially called HEM his top townread but voted HEM under pressure from Aristelia. Town!Math would never allow his arm to be twisted like that to vote a genuine top tr like that. Town!Math is bullheaded and obstinate to a fault. He is also one of the most anti-survivalistic players as town and I don’t recall Math ever being willing to policy anyone. Sometimes town!Math actually gets it right like in Koba’s mini normal and other times very wrong as in White Flag but there is always substance to his reads no matter how outlandish it looks to others. ISO both games to contast them with this one. Town!Math overflows with conviction and is also consistent with his reads. Here, he seems to change his reads on a dime without rhyme or reason. Town!Math doesn’t change his reads easily and definitely never under pressure.
Also he switched his srs on both Ausuka and Ari when they either voted the way he wanted or tr him. He gave me shit for initially not voting but had no issue with bella not voting, eventhough I had the exact same reason for having not voted as she had.
He had STD and Roden as top trs but is now takinv that at least partially back with STD. He did something similar with Gamma. He referred to them both as T/T but now he’s suddenly scum because he couldn’t find town!him early enough.
There are just so many reasons why Math is scum here.
(italics and bold added)
I do appreciate this and sorry if I've been making you repeat yourself. I see the italic parts as things that Mathblade as obstinate town would probably do. Particularly the part near the bottom about switching his SRs on people who do what he wants. Whilst annoying, I feel like at a basic level, someone is just generally more likely to warm to people who do what they want them to do.
The bolded is the part that has me unsure though, because I do agree that the progression on HEM is weird and does not fit with obstinate-town Mathblade, and ultimately I really just don't know.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:42 am
by Harley Quinn
In post 1639, Bellaphant wrote:? I am concerned about Titus, as the seem to be playing differently from most times we've played together. This is just a fact.
I town read you. I'm just getting frustrated that you are doing the same thing math is doing - repeatedly asserting you are correct about a thing and getting vexed other people aren't immediately conceding to this. This is literally happening.
@hq their style of posting, especially today, I would forgive most people for voting the slot to allow the thread to breathe.
P-edit, maybe I worded this wrong. I'm specifically talking about this game. I think, if math flips town, any scum could say 'yeah but look at the random shit he was talking' and noone would scum read them for it.
I have plenty of experience playing with Titus myself and I don’t see how she is any different here from any other town game of hers?
In post 1626, Wallflower wrote:I truly have tried to get an understanding of the math scumread and it still seems to boil down to what I said here?
In post 1585, Wallflower wrote:my understanding is that the main reason this matches Math-scum is the giving up on saving HEM rather than just continuing to push the townread, right? I am concerned by that too, but given the state of the game and especially HEM not even posting at the time, I can see a world where math truly feels that way.
HQ is there something I'm missing?
It’s far more than that. Far more. I should pull up my posts or you can ISO me.
Math is scum because he doesn’t believe anything he says. ISO him and look at the reasoning/or more like lack there of for his reads.
Examples:
His push on Dwlee has no substance behind it. He sr Gamma for “not having found town!him yet”, eventhough Gamma played identically in Koba’s mini normal where they were both town. He sr Ausuka for being “nice about maths” or something. When is being nice ever a valid scumtell and especially for Ausuka who - when is she not nice? His progression on STD went from STD lockscum to STD locktown in pretty much the blink of an eye. He posted that if ANY not ALL of Dwlee, Titus, Gamma flip scum, he would then put me or Implosive in hid PoE. However, I am now extremely confident all 3 are town.
And yes, his entire progression on HEM is not what I’ve experienced with town!Math ever. He initially called HEM his top townread but voted HEM under pressure from Aristelia. Town!Math would never allow his arm to be twisted like that to vote a genuine top tr like that. Town!Math is bullheaded and obstinate to a fault. He is also one of the most anti-survivalistic players as town and I don’t recall Math ever being willing to policy anyone. Sometimes town!Math actually gets it right like in Koba’s mini normal and other times very wrong as in White Flag but there is always substance to his reads no matter how outlandish it looks to others. ISO both games to contast them with this one. Town!Math overflows with conviction and is also consistent with his reads. Here, he seems to change his reads on a dime without rhyme or reason. Town!Math doesn’t change his reads easily and definitely never under pressure.
Also he switched his srs on both Ausuka and Ari when they either voted the way he wanted or tr him. He gave me shit for initially not voting but had no issue with bella not voting, eventhough I had the exact same reason for having not voted as she had.
He had STD and Roden as top trs but is now takinv that at least partially back with STD. He did something similar with Gamma. He referred to them both as T/T but now he’s suddenly scum because he couldn’t find town!him early enough.
There are just so many reasons why Math is scum here.
(italics and bold added)
I do appreciate this and sorry if I've been making you repeat yourself. I see the italic parts as things that Mathblade as obstinate town would probably do. Particularly the part near the bottom about switching his SRs on people who do what he wants. Whilst annoying, I feel like at a basic level, someone is just generally more likely to warm to people who do what they want them to do.
The bolded is the part that has me unsure though, because I do agree that the progression on HEM is weird and does not fit with obstinate-town Mathblade, and ultimately I really just don't know.
Yeah, that’s why my #1 reason for believing Math is scum is the total lack of substance and conviction behind any of his reads but yes. Town!Math would not flip on a locktown read so easily. And you are correct, his entire progression on HEM changed once he started being sr. He initially sounded pisssed but resigned about HEM being flipped to hard tr him to suddenly doing a 180 and policying him. That isn’t town!Math but he has done that for the majority of his reads this game.
Also, did you notice now that Titus is hard tr Roden, he suddenly is saying nothing about that slot? My read on Roden hasn’t changed one iota but I think his goal was to use Titus’ initially wrong read on Roden against her and now that she switched that read, he fails to even comment on it.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:57 am
by Wallflower
thanks harley, it's sleep time for me now and I've just had a bit of RL drama so now is not the time for me to be making decisions, but I'll look over it all in the morning/day.
This is why I’m so confident you’re flipping scum, you keep making scumpost after scumpost ad nauseum. The only post that isn’t is about the mass claim which is nai.
This is why I’m so confident you’re flipping scum, you keep making scumpost after scumpost ad nauseum. The only post that isn’t is about the mass claim which is nai.
Scum are scared of something.
I am not scum.
Scum don’t want the thing to happen.
I do the thing.
Like you saying I don’t make sense is sus as hell
I shouldn’t have to break that down
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:28 am
by MathBlade
In post 1639, Bellaphant wrote:? I am concerned about Titus, as the seem to be playing differently from most times we've played together. This is just a fact.
I town read you. I'm just getting frustrated that you are doing the same thing math is doing - repeatedly asserting you are correct about a thing and getting vexed other people aren't immediately conceding to this. This is literally happening.
@hq their style of posting, especially today, I would forgive most people for voting the slot to allow the thread to breathe.
P-edit, maybe I worded this wrong. I'm specifically talking about this game. I think, if math flips town, any scum could say 'yeah but look at the random shit he was talking' and noone would scum read them for it.
Damn Bella saying what I am thinking. Minus the TR of Titus
