Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Bacde]

OH SNAP

lol!

So I'm convinced Mac is town, which of you guys is the wolf?

Right now I'm actually leaning Syr but I haven't reread anything

actually I sorta am turning on Syr

lol what if it was bulba this whole time and he's just gonna question-nazi and then wait for us to eat each other

[Bacde]

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

[Bulbazak]

2) Gut mostly? He even voted me at the end of the day yesterday which I felt was legit because I was doping around and not sure who the scum was

We kinda need more than gut at this stage. Why do you feel that Mac's actions yesterday were genuine and not fake and the actions of an impatient scum?

My thoughts are that we should no-lynch. My reads are scattered to fuck and gone right now and I'm not rereading tonight.

I'll probably no lynch as well later on. However, we have a nice full day phase to try to sort everything out. Let's talk.

AW HELL NO

things that I think:

Syr is town

and it's between bacde & bulba

and I think it's bulba based on his early chat with fuzzy

Getting back into the same old mindset I see. I'd like to talk to you about that discussion with Fuzzy as well. There are some things that I noticed when going through your ISO that I want to ask you about.

why have you turned on me and not syr as well?

I don't like the way this is phrased.

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

I'd actually like to hear the answer to this.

[Mac]

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

mafia hunting?

[Mac]

question away bulba

[Bulbazak]

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

mafia hunting?

How is that? I had a strong meta read on GM that said otherwise (incorrect, I know, but still...). If I was going to shoot someone I thought was mafia, it would have been Syryana.

[Mac]

k it's kinda wifomy but i still got it wrong and you did say she was town. This is hard.

Why no questions?

[Bacde]

Syr I could see having a reason to shoot G_M

then again, the case was probably going to be bullbutt

[Syryana]

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

I've an idea, but it's pretty WIFOM-y. I'll put it out there if you all want, but I'm not sure it's a good use of our time to discuss WIFOM-y things like this.

I'll probably no lynch as well later on. However, we have a nice full day phase to try to sort everything out. Let's talk.

In any other situation I would agree with you. However, this being MyLo, I think if we're going to no-lynch we should put off the discussion until tomorrow. It saves time for town in that we have less suspects to analyze and more importantly it will make life difficult for the wolf toNight (no current reads means wolf will have less info and consequently a much harder time fucking with our minds).

If we're going to lynch toDay, I'm all for discussing right up till the last second. However, in my opinion it would be counterproductive to lay all our cards on the table then no-lynch.

[Bacde]

VOTE: no lynch

eh

[zabriel]

Vote Count 5.0

No Lynch (Syryana, Bacde)

Day 5 will end in (expired on 2013-06-30 20:00:00)

[Bulbazak]

Why no questions?

I was sorting through some last minute ISO things on you. Mostly, though, I was catching up on another game. Two really important ones came to mind, though.

1.)You started crafting a case early d1 on a partnership between Fuzzy and myself, yet when you would attack someone with it, you always attacked me and layed off Fuzzy. Why?

2.) On d4 you started on a big kick about how the DBK NK was supposed to be me setting you up. Yet, if you remember correctly, I called you town immediately on d3 and explained that it was due to the Klick mafia flip, not the Bo NK like you were trying to push. What about the Bo NK suggests that it was to set you up, and why did you wait until a day later to bring it up, especially since my town read on you had nothing to do with that flip?

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

I've an idea, but it's pretty WIFOM-y. I'll put it out there if you all want, but I'm not sure it's a good use of our time to discuss WIFOM-y things like this.

Now's the perfect time. What do you got?

I'll probably no lynch as well later on. However, we have a nice full day phase to try to sort everything out. Let's talk.

In any other situation I would agree with you. However, this being MyLo, I think if we're going to no-lynch we should put off the discussion until tomorrow. It saves time for town in that we have less suspects to analyze and more importantly it will make life difficult for the wolf toNight (no current reads means wolf will have less info and consequently a much harder time fucking with our minds).

If we're going to lynch toDay, I'm all for discussing right up till the last second. However, in my opinion it would be counterproductive to lay all our cards on the table then no-lynch.

I'm all for lynching today if we are convinced that we've figured it out. We just need to realize that we do not have to and can no lynch if we are still unable to figure things out. This is a day phase to sort through as much information as possible in order to make the best decision possible. It's true that more information may help the wolf, but it also may prove to be a thorn in his side if there's too much for him to properly sort through. I for one want to make sure that if the wolf decides to kill me, the decision is more likely to hurt him than to actually help him. Besides, I think I might have an idea who it is, and if I'm correct, now is the time to sort through everything we have and ask the correct questions in order to discover the truth and make the right decision.

[Bacde]

UNVOTE:

what do you got bulba

[Bulbazak]

I'll let you know when Mac answers. I need to finish going through your's and Syryana's ISOs. Will probably do that tonight via 3DS.

[Syryana]

Now that the site's back and I can actually finish my post:

Now's the perfect time. What do you got?

K. Disclaimer: The following is WIFOM as fuck. You has been warned.

Vote: Egg

I realise I'm pretty bad at reading Bulba but I really don't think it's him. More on this when I get back.

I super duper promise that I am almost done with my super duper convincing case on Syr. In the meantime I will super duper enjoy this slugfest. I am super duper sure of EggScum at this point, though that did go super duper poorly last time.

Relevant quotes. Why did you kill GM? 1) She was the only person that outright buddied you yesterDay and 2) killing her generates nice WIFOM about me, given the case she was supposedly making against me. 1) is helpful in the most WIFOM sense; it makes it less reasonable for you to be the killer. Why, when at L-1 for a great duration yesterDay, would you, having made it past the Day and given an Egg townflip, kill your only supporter? It doesn't seem reasonable that you would, which gives you an excellent reason to do so. Second, GM's death has the added benefit of throwing suspicion onto your main detractor: me. At Day's end, she was promising a case on me. Why not knock her out of the game, as it makes others look worse and you look better for doing so?

Hmm. I seem to remember some similar discussion about DBK being killed for something like this. I'll go reread the game and find it.

[Mac]

huh my post has gone. that's fun. but I think Bulba is the wolf. let me explain.

when Klick flips mafia, Bulba clears me as town because of the way I pushed Klick to the point where it couldn't be bussing. he doesn't think I'm a wolf because of the way I pushed fuzzy to the point where it couldn't be bussing. correct? I think I am. now we get into mylo and he decides to bring up that I pushed him over fuzzy early in the game. why didn't he bring this up earlier? why has he left it until now? I feel like his reads are fake

to answer your questions in a straight way bulba.

1) I always find fuzzy's playstyle scummy, therefore there is no point in me pushing him because I won't gain anything from it. I'll leave it to others.

2) whenever I first mentioned it was when it came into my head. it was just a theory, and I dismissed it at first. but there was no reason why I couldn't have been, in your eyes bussing klick to get lynched. strictly speaking, the DBK mafia flip should have cleared me as not-mafia since that would mean I bussed two of my partners yet you never mention it, instead referencing only Klick who was pretty much obvscum.

I feel like if we look at your early interactions with fuzzy, particularly the "I hope your scum game has improved" part of them, then you are the wolf, Bulba.

[Mac]

but then bacde's slot did literally nothing prior to him replacing in.


aaaa

[Syryana]

when Klick flips mafia, Bulba clears me as town because of the way I pushed Klick to the point where it couldn't be bussing. he doesn't think I'm a wolf because of the way I pushed fuzzy to the point where it couldn't be bussing. correct? I think I am.

I looked into this after mentioning that GM stuff. You are correct.

Your case is interesting. Will go look at fuzzy-Bulba early interactions.

[Bacde]

but then bacde's slot did literally nothing prior to him replacing in.


aaaa

not to mention I didn't really do much after the Autti/PP slot flipped town

[Bulbazak]

Why did you kill GM? 1) She was the only person that outright buddied you yesterDay and 2) killing her generates nice WIFOM about me, given the case she was supposedly making against me. 1) is helpful in the most WIFOM sense; it makes it less reasonable for you to be the killer. Why, when at L-1 for a great duration yesterDay, would you, having made it past the Day and given an Egg townflip, kill your only supporter? It doesn't seem reasonable that you would, which gives you an excellent reason to do so. Second, GM's death has the added benefit of throwing suspicion onto your main detractor: me. At Day's end, she was promising a case on me. Why not knock her out of the game, as it makes others look worse and you look better for doing so?

Why would I, as wolf, kill GM, who I had a town read on, when we were entering into Mylo with 1 Mafia member left, which threatened a possible win? I would be more likely to kill you, since I had read you as Mafia. From that perspective, a GM NK makes no sense, but again, as you said, that's all WIFOM.

when Klick flips mafia, Bulba clears me as town because of the way I pushed Klick to the point where it couldn't be bussing. he doesn't think I'm a wolf because of the way I pushed fuzzy to the point where it couldn't be bussing. correct? I think I am. now we get into mylo and he decides to bring up that I pushed him over fuzzy early in the game. why didn't he bring this up earlier? why has he left it until now? I feel like his reads are fake

I thought that your Fuzzy push was harder than it was. It was only on reviewing your ISO that I realized that you more or less left him alone, and that he ignored you for the most part. As for the reason I didn't bring this up earlier, that has to do with the fact that we're in Mylo, and I always reevaluate all of my reads via ISO during Mylo and Lylo.

[Syryana]

not to mention I didn't really do much after the Autti/PP slot flipped town

Why don't you do something and start contributing then?

Why would I, as wolf, kill GM, who I had a town read on, when we were entering into Mylo with 1 Mafia member left, which threatened a possible win? I would be more likely to kill you, since I had read you as Mafia. From that perspective, a GM NK makes no sense, but again, as you said, that's all WIFOM.

Optimal wolf play would be to NK townies and lynch Mafia. So, assuming your Mafia read on me was legit, optimal play for Bulba-wolf would be to kill a townread and get me lynched today.

Still need to go back and read those interactions, Mac. Will get to it this evening.

[Bacde]

Wouldn't it be just as optimal to lynch townies and NK mafia?

Why is it that a wolf necessarily wants to lynch mafia and NK townies?

[Syryana]

Wouldn't it be just as optimal to lynch townies and NK mafia?

Why is it that a wolf necessarily wants to lynch mafia and NK townies?

I feel like we went over this somewhere before. Lynching townies and NK'ing mafia would end up with the same net result, but in my opinion lynching mafia would be safer from a wolf perspective since the wolf gets towncred for every successful mafia lynch that they participate in rather than possible suspicion from mislynching townies (depending on the mislynch, not all mislynches are created equal).

[Syryana]

Bacde. Give us an updated list of reads please.

[AngryBeavers]

Wouldn't it be just as optimal to lynch townies and NK mafia?

Why is it that a wolf necessarily wants to lynch mafia and NK townies?

I feel like we went over this somewhere before. Lynching townies and NK'ing mafia would end up with the same net result, but in my opinion lynching mafia would be safer from a wolf perspective since the wolf gets towncred for every successful mafia lynch that they participate in rather than possible suspicion from mislynching townies (depending on the mislynch, not all mislynches are created equal).

I don't really feel like this is true, since I don't think a single person in this thread has given someone town cred for lynching mafia, just not-mafia cred.