Calvin and Hobbes Mafia(GAME OVER! Grownups Mafia Wins!)

[Nobody Special]

I'm with NS and TSO. But can we please kill varsoon so if we're wrong we didn't just lynch an uncced doctor?

Fine.

unvote

Vote: Varsoon

[Psyche]

@ Psyche - I wonder what happens if the town loses its majority but the scum teams are uneven (1 slimy girl vs 3 on the other team). Does the game continue?

Think we'd still have a chance of winning.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote Count 4.1 - With 11 alive, it requires 6 to lynch - Day ends 7/28/13(plus possible additional time)

Nobody Special(2) - Psyche, Varsoon

(L-4)

varsoon(2) - TiphaineDeath, Nobody Special

(L-4)

Dante - TSO
Psyche - Rubicon

[Skullduggery]

There's no question that Pope was the one who got eaten by a grue or whatever. He'd have made a hundred posts by now if he was still alive.

Dante, why do you think Desp was killed?

It's weird that he was chosen for the NK since his ability was harmful to the town and he was under scrutiny that might have led to a lynch.

Isn't it obvious? Desperado was killed because he could mess with Scum's actions at night. Hell, the only reason I'm still in the game is because Desperado switched me and Radioactive Wolf on night one. I would be dead otherwise. If he had gotten lucky, he may have even been able to cause a Scum player to shoot his teammate, right? The only player who put any real scrutiny on Desperado was Pope, and as I already pointed out, Pope's suspicion didn't amount to a hill of beans.

I think a better question to ask is why Pope was Janitor killed/eaten/whatever the heck happened to him. Scum likely used this mystery kill on him because they didn't want him to flip Tracker. If he did, then we'd know that he was telling the truth and his results were accurate. According to Pope...

* He followed Varsoon on Night 1 and saw him performing an action on Radioactive Wolf (Varsoon tried to neighborize me, but Desperado switched me and Radioactive Wolf, so Pope saw Varsoon visiting Wolf instead of me)
* He followed Desperado on Night 2 and saw him performing an action on Pope (but not Boxxy even though Desperado said that he switched Pope and Boxxy)

Scum didn't want us to know that there is truth to these results. Why? What kind of incriminating evidence is hidden in here?

(Of course, this whole line of thought is pointless if you assume that Pope wasn't really a Tracker, but I see no reason to believe that he was lying about that.)

I'm still trying to figure out what role he had...originally assumed he was a Bus Driver...then I read Skull's post suggesting a Sidekick...the way I read the roles doesn't explain what happened last night.

Guess...I'm confused on who was the scum's target last night? Did Despo die as a scum target or did he die using the sidekick ability?

Desperado was a Town Bus Driver. Boxxy was a Scum Sidekick. Desperado did not have a Sidekick ability. Pay closer attention, please.

If your confusion is genuine then you're much more likely to be town, because a boxxy partner would know that he was the Sidekick. But you could also be pretending to be confused on purpose to make me think that.

Doubtful. I don't think Dante is smart enough to pull off mind game shenanigans like that. (No offense, Dante.)

But we don't know that we have no town killing role.

Well, we

did

already lose our Vigilante. How many more killing role do you suppose we have?

Another example would be WWE when one of the scum listed off a bunch of boxer names that were "likely" scum flavor names - sure, he could have guessed that information from knowing about WWE, and that's what he was hoping people would think, but actually he got it from the scum QT.

Are you talking about this? Cuz, uh, Goat was Town. Just sayin'.

I'm currently thinking that there's a chance that TiP belonged to one scum team and the other team killed/covered up his flip results just in case the slot flipped scum--mostly to keep town from knowing.

If that was true, then the Scum team that killed him wouldn't know his role or alignment either. How would that be advantageous to them?

ns pls

you're town

so I don't feel like defending a player as good as you

gameface on, ja?

In case you missed it:

Spoiler:

Also, why is Nobody Special Town? Don't give us a cop-out answer either. Link to specific posts, please.

You seem to be in the minority thinking that Nobody Special is Town. If you're going to take that stance, then you'd better be prepared to defend it. "I don't feel like defending a player as good as you" isn't gonna cut it.

Who did you protect?

Not telling.

Well, if you won't tell us, can I at least ask

why

you don't want to tell us? I don't see any compelling reason for you to withhold this information.

I just can't get that this is legit. He claims way too early as a PR, claims as Doc, won't give flavor or results. Varsoon then refuses to share anything from the QT while simultaneously confirming anything Psyche says (as if that means anything) with no words of admonition at all. This is bullshit.

If you think Psyche's claim is bullshit, why aren't you voting for him?

[Psyche]

Nope.

[Skullduggery]

[TiphaineDeath]

I dunno if nobody special is town skull, but he's working with me for now against var-scum, so I'm willing to let it slide. He's either town or the last of the slimy girls.

[Skullduggery]

@Varsoon:

TheIrishPope: Null-leaning-town. Claimed tracker, seems to be tracker.

Psyche: Null-leaning-town.

I'm in a QT with him and he comes off as very town, but if he's a good liar, I'd be pissed. Haven't seen much of him lately, though.
Varsoon: That's me!
penguin_alien: Scum. Lurks too hard and has really poor posts that confuse and turn town on town (in my opinion).
Rubicon: Town. His PGO claim checks out.

Skullduggery: Town.

Unless Skull has the amazing ability to play the most hardcore town in scum games, I probably can't be convinced that Skull isn't town.
boxxy: Null-leaning-scum. Lurks hard, makes strange posts/votes, doesn't usually use good evidence for them.
Desperado: Null-leaning-town. Don't like his exchange between TIP about all the bus-driver stuff, but, as it seems, it implicates Boxxy. Or something. It's just a weird back and forth.
Metal Sonic: Null-leaning-town. Mostly basing this on meta of MS. I'd like it if Metal Sonic would be active.
T S O: Null. I don't know what to think of this slot.
TiphaineDeath: Null-leaning-scum. Seems too defensive of himself and also turned my shitty pressure into a poorly parsed case against me. I explain this more in 1362.
EddieFenix: Null. Lurks too much, but doesn't really feel like scum in the content posted.
Nobody Special: Null. Same as Eddie, I feel.
Dante: Null-leaning-scum. I don't like the ellipses everywhere, but that's not why I feel he might be scum. Content produced feels less town than it does scum, also is largely reactionary in posting method.

Why was I a stronger Town read than Psyche on day three when Psyche had already told you that he was a Doctor by that point? Did you have doubts about his claim?

I dunno if nobody special is town skull, but he's working with me for now against var-scum, so I'm willing to let it slide. He's either town or the last of the slimy girls.

Translation: "He's either Town or he's Scum, but it doesn't matter because he agrees with me."

Yes, very helpful, thank you.

[TiphaineDeath]

This is multiball, it's hard to tell, give me a break XD.

[Psyche]

Seriously it is probably a good idea to lynch the last slimy girl if we can manage it. :/

[Varsoon]

As usual, this interaction makes me dislike TD even more (in this game. You're actually a cool guy, cool guy.)


@Skull: I had my doubts about Psyche's claim for a few reasons.
-I'm a paranoid player
-His immediate doctor claim in the QT is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around.
-Some things he's said in the QT still confuse me, and we're trying to work that out in the QT as of now.
-His input today feels a lot like what the last slimy girl would do in order to stay alive.

Mostly, it's paranoia. Imagine if you Neighbored a guy and he started the convo with "I am the Doctor, here's who I protected."

Right now, though, I'm chalking it up to paranoia, because that's a majority of what I could even make a case on him about. Instead, we've got players like T S O and TD being -really- scummy even now, in D4.
Don't even get me started on how many people are actively lurking this game.

It does make me feel good that I was right on my feelings about Boxxy and Desperado, though. :3

Also, Skull, you're a solid-town-read for me because of your interaction with the game, your willingness to comply and contribute, the good pressure you put on scummy players, and the pro-town information and logic you share. If you're scum, I'd really be blown away by the level of commitment--you'd have really earned the win at this point.

As for my thought that the kill on TiP was censored to avoid his flip informing town, it could be for a few reasons. If he was scum and of the slimy team, that'd let town know that slimy girls were gone during the day phase rather than them not being able to figure it out for a day or two (If there was only one NK, we could always assume a kill got blocked or scum is running a no-kill gambit). If he was the tracker, then scum is still denying town info, which is good for scum. Either way, it makes sense that scum didn't want town to get info out of his flip.

What roles can censor flips like that? I haven't had that happen in any games I've seen until this one.

[Psyche]

Maybe there's something subtle about the art of claiming that I'm missing out of overconfidence.

[penguin_alien]

But we don't know that we have no town killing role.

Well, we

did

already lose our Vigilante. How many more killing role do you suppose we have?

Eh, that's true that with a limited shot vig we're less likely to have a JOAT with a kill power.

Looking at the boxxy-roflcopter ISO, boxxy pressures EddieFenix a decent amount and really pushes the idea of a Varsoon-Psyche scum team. That latter part looks like scum hunting their opposite number, so if we think there's another slimy girl left we don't want to lynch there today. EddieFenix, the interactions with him look a bit forced. boxxy eliminated T S O as a lynch candidate for being null, but didn't afford NS the same courtesy after an analysis that boiled down to 'null.' Makes me wonder why...

Will look through it again when I'm less zonked, like in the morning.

[Varsoon]

@Penguin: I agree on your analysis, but, honestly, -everyone's interaction- with boxxy felt really forced. Like, any time that Boxxy engaged someone in a discussion, it felt slimy. I really don't like the Dante/Boxxy interaction, obviously, but you raise a really strong point against Eddie and NS.

I'm sorry if I've been harshing your browns for so long, your recent contributions are really good. Keep playing like that and we're much more likely to catch scum. There's bound to be some relational tells in the game-history, so I suggest scoping them out.

[Varsoon]

@Psyche: I'm just a paranoid player. To me, everyone is scummy until proven otherwise. It was really terrifying for you to enter the QT and establish yourself as such a strong town PR. I've trusted people who've claimed strong town PRs and got me to lynch out town before, and those wounds are pretty fresh. :/

[Varsoon]

So, you'd see why I'd be skeptical. Still, I believe you're town, even if there's a nagging part of my brain that's telling me not to do that so easily.

[Nobody Special]

Maybe there's something subtle about the art of claiming that I'm missing out of overconfidence.

Or, the more likely scenario: You're fakeclaiming scum and you're pretty bad at it.

[Varsoon]

@NS: As in, he's scum and he's fake-claiming?

[Varsoon]

It really bums me out when the thread is slow and when Psyche won't chat in our QT.
I might just pack up my computer or go to sleep. I leave tomorrow, so when I'm gone tonight, it'll be the start of my V/LA.

[Nobody Special]

@NS: As in, he's scum and he's fake-claiming?

Yes; sorry I wasn't more clear. I'm calling him scum (whether of the Slimy Girls or some other variety, I don't know) and I think his Doc claim is totally bogus.

[Varsoon]

To be fair, I could see that as a possibility, even though I really hope it isn't true.

To be even more fair, there's way better lynches to be made today.
NS, if you really want to follow the Psyche = scum thing, I'd believe you a lot more if you didn't just parrot my paranoia and instead built a solid case on him.

[Nobody Special]

I can do that. Not tonight, though. Bed soon.

But also notice how Psyche keeps insisting I'm scum, but never says

why.

[Varsoon]

Well, until you build that case, I'm keeping my vote where it is. At this point in the game, everyone should be pressured/given incentive to contribute and put their thoughts forward.

Your second sentence is really good. Give some good trajectory with Psyche's rationale for people being scum and it could pay off in a case against him.

Honestly, I think he's town, but I want to see you do work and put forth good reasons why you think otherwise. Building your case will make your alignment more transparent, which, at the very least, is very pro-town.

[Dante]

WRT:

Psyche Doc claim: Unless he gets countered I'm thinking he's the Doc.
Psyche claim that Varsoon is Town: thinking he's misguided or naive...could easily distorted your views from the start.
Rubicon voting Psyche: Sketchy play...I don't like the Psyche/Varsoon alliance either but no reason to vote an uncountered Doc.
Psyche refusal to name his actions: cat's out of the bag...see no reason not post these action now...could you explain?
MS ban: WTF did he do/say? lol...lol...lol
T S O claim: Again...I'm thinking Varsoon is the correct play from his Miller claim...you claim both him and Psyche are scum mates...little bit of a stretch...could easily turn the tables and claim you and Rubicon are scum mates trying to get our Doc lynched.
Nobody Special vote on Psyche: terrible...again...uncountered Doc has to get benefit of doubt...just as easily lump you with Rubicon and T S O

Still need to look back at some things...

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates is replacing metal sonic.