Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Prism]

Tayl0r, can you talk more about the scumread of Puppy you gave in 500?

It looks like you swapped to thinking Puppy was town either by 659 (Where catboi took the top slot) or by 751 at the latest.

The Puppy posts in between these sections are all on Pages 22/23 and a bit more on Pages 26 and 27, if you need help jogging your memory.

[Morning Tweet]

Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑) trying to figure out who would actually make sense as being teamed with the elements slot and it's, like...lavender, taylor, redtea, or

I guess

Prism and that's it. Hrm.

this was killed.

i've been thinking about this post as a "maybe i *am* overthinking it too much?"

Pretty sure we kill all those slots besides Prism and win.

Unless we miss -> one of them suicides as Not Chara -> last scum alive is the deepwolf not inside of there

Then we'd have to tryhard

[Prism]

Part of me is now wondering if Tayl0r did the vote knowing it didn't count. I've assumed it was an honest mistake as either alignment either way just because that seems more likely, but bussing Sujimichi with a vote that won't count is the ultimate bigbrain move here.

[Tanner]

Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑) trying to figure out who would actually make sense as being teamed with the elements slot and it's, like...lavender, taylor, redtea, or

I guess

Prism and that's it. Hrm.

this was killed.

i've been thinking about this post as a "maybe i *am* overthinking it too much?"

Pretty sure we kill all those slots besides Prism and win.

Unless we miss -> one of them suicides as Not Chara -> last scum alive is the deepwolf not inside of there

Then we'd have to tryhard

i am so annoyed at this game
on one hand, the person i was townreading and who was townreading me, and who had very similar thoughts to mine about the game, was killed. maybe it is as easy as it looks.
on the other, did scum really just like??? lay on the floor and die??? and also if we miss today and maaaybe tomorrow, i'm gonna be next in the firing line, and holy hell i am not in the mood

[Prism]

puppy is coasting and not engaged. whens the last time you saw a post from puppy that wasnt fluff?

I'm really confused by this read. You've openly admitted to doing the same. Town has a very high chance of winning this game, especially with several confident townreads like it seems Puppy has.

In general what makes you so hard to read this game is you seemed to be openly dart throwing off of gut, being very unashamed about it and generally avoiding explaining your process for how they switch.

[Prism]

Town has a very high chance of winning this game, especially with several confident townreads like it seems Puppy has.

"Why is this scum from Puppy?" is the completion to my thought here

[Tanner]

Part of me is now wondering if Tayl0r did the vote knowing it didn't count. I've assumed it was an honest mistake as either alignment either way just because that seems more likely, but bussing Sujimichi with a vote that won't count is the ultimate bigbrain move here.

now i'm thinking about this, since she never made that mistake up until then, but i'm too small brain to get the scum motivation behind that

[Hectic]

HEAL: Hectic for flavour reasons. I dive into the water - Glyde's ideal habitat.

I am very confident on Morning being town, Tanner. She perfectly matches my mindset today too, and I'd be suprised if I was resonating with her so much if she were scum.

[Prism]

I'm taking a nap but I WILL BE BACK IN 45 CHARA

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

did a ctrl+f redtea re-read of catboi

he trs redtea fairly hard which makes the nightkill not make a lot of sense if redtea is chara or scum here(more so as chara.

He also expresses suspicion of TSwift so I think we have better odds of hitting scum there now.

[Prism]

Hectic I'm on my phone but I would love to point you to a certain post of Amrun's about mindmelding with Chara and why that is such a bad tell imo

She's still town tho

[Chara]

Hectic I'm on my phone but I would love to point you to a certain post of Amrun's about mindmelding with Chara and why that is such a bad tell imo

She's still town tho

i discarded that tell because of that game, haha.
see you soon.

[Prism]

Hi! <3

First, back in 753 you posted the following about redtea:

266 stood out to me at the time and it still does. the defense of Elements and the attribution of a lot more forethought to Elements' angle on Puppy than i believe Elements' question really warranted gives me pause.
Elements sees what appears to be a contradiction. they question it. redtea's interpretation feels... too much? if redtea flipped mafia i'd call it an Elements townspew, if anything.

Redtea mafia -> Elements town is the contrapositive of Elements mafia -> redtea town, so this implies redtea is town via Ele's flip

How do you feel about this now?

[Prism]

This isn't really something I have a question about, but it also looks like you fundamentally have a misconception about redtea's catboi read. It seems like you think that redtea never justified this read, but I think they pretty clearly did even though for some reason they didn't just repeat themselves to Pooky (??? Confuses me too)

Very early on, they made it clear that they townread catboi for the mechanics/EV discussion. 166, 182, 183.

These are two very concrete stances, and redtea leaps off of them to pressure two people. In the first, they misinterpret a post of Hectic's to think he's discrediting catboi's EV attempts, rather than just explaining why my approach specifically was town. 266, 382, 390. In the second, redtea criticizes catboi for not including me in his townblock. 524

I don't know if this changes your view of the slot at all, but I am just curious to hear your thoughts. It seems like a lot of your Day 1 you thought they didn't really justify it or take many concrete stances.

[Chara]

Redtea mafia -> Elements town is the contrapositive of Elements mafia -> redtea town, so this implies redtea is town via Ele's flip

How do you feel about this now?

i forgot about this.
i do find it less likely that scum redtea decides to defend partner Elements in this manner, provided i am reading it correctly as a defense.

[Prism]

You might find my 1581 interesting in that case.

or maybe it'd be boring iuno

[Chara]

re redtea's catboi read: i believe i was aware that redtea was townreading kitty on mechanics, but i found it strange how they responded to Pooky in that way when the justification was there.
i'm not comfortable saying the Elements interaction makes redtea definitely town, but it does give me a lot of pause. and yes, i recognize that it's something i said myself and then forgot about until you reminded me.

i don't know if redtea was ever a real SR, or just a slot i didn't know what to do with. i was really hoping to pressure whoever repped in, but with that not being an option, i think i would have tried pushing elsewhere if i'd been up to it this day.

HURT: Isis
i'll catch up. what's next?

[Prism]

Can I ask why you never voted Taylor Day 1? 882 sticks out to me here. The progression seemed to go from Taylor townlean to Taylor being your #1 scumlean. It isn't until 1017 that you flip back around to townleaning her (for a weak reason imo, but besides the point)

I'm also a bit curious as to your thoughts on Puppy around this time. In 822, shortly before the dialogue around Taylor comes up, you mention scumreading Puppy but this seems to disappear for awhile. I wish I could pose a more directed question here, sorry.

[Chara]

Re: Chara there's a lot of engagement between Tanner/redtea, I don't feel like grabbing post numbers but I'd consider just Ctrl+F searching their names in each. Tanner also immediately brought up a problem with redtea at the start of the day. Unlikely team imo.

you're so thorough. thanks.

[Prism]

I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic LOL

That is one of the few times I didn't provide a bibliography so sorry

[CantHateAPuppy]

no offense to anyone but spec on who chara is is kinda pointless. we'll find out after today right? interactions will probably get a lot simpler after that

tbh i didnt even remember chara scumreading those posts. i was having a bad day tbh. honestily i think im kind of obvtown, so ive been ignoring most of the scumreads on me (except you tanner ) but i always think im obvtown so if im wrong and someone wants me to jump in here lemme know

[CantHateAPuppy]

has anyone done my taylor homework yet? I started it but then my dog came up and ate it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no offense to anyone but spec on who chara is is kinda pointless. we'll find out after today right? interactions will probably get a lot simpler after that

tbh i didnt even remember chara scumreading those posts. i was having a bad day tbh. honestily i think im kind of obvtown, so ive been ignoring most of the scumreads on me (except you tanner ) but i always think im obvtown so if im wrong and someone wants me to jump in here lemme know

there is a point to chara spec - we can figure out who is unlikely to be the chara's partner after the flip if we were to miss based on the spec

[CantHateAPuppy]

no offense to anyone but spec on who chara is is kinda pointless. we'll find out after today right? interactions will probably get a lot simpler after that

tbh i didnt even remember chara scumreading those posts. i was having a bad day tbh. honestily i think im kind of obvtown, so ive been ignoring most of the scumreads on me (except you tanner ) but i always think im obvtown so if im wrong and someone wants me to jump in here lemme know

there is a point to chara spec - we can figure out who is unlikely to be the chara's partner after the flip if we were to miss based on the spec

every game of mafia ive ever played tells me there's a 50-50 chance that after scum flips everyone will have different opinions from the ones they said they'd actually have

i dunno, either chara is someone who won't change my reads, or im wildly wrong about some of my reads and then ill have to rethink things. like, if chara ends up being, uh, chara, or pooky, then maybe id have to sit and think hard about it, but im just chasing the car in front of me rn

[Chara]

Can I ask why you never voted Taylor Day 1? 882 sticks out to me here. The progression seemed to go from Taylor townlean to Taylor being your #1 scumlean. It isn't until 1017 that you flip back around to townleaning her (for a weak reason imo, but besides the point)

I'm also a bit curious as to your thoughts on Puppy around this time. In 822, shortly before the dialogue around Taylor comes up, you mention scumreading Puppy but this seems to disappear for awhile. I wish I could pose a more directed question here, sorry.

this is a good question, but i don't remember, so any answer i have on the subject is essentially conjecture and trying to psychoanalyze myself.
i thought Elements early-game was scummy, but then beeboy came in and i wanted to read him. he didn't end up doing very much besides the Taylor push, so i suppose he settled at null-scum and i forgot about him, which is why i said Taylor was my only real scumread.
i liked kitty's Taylor vote because i found it constructive and i liked that he was doing something instead of waiting around. i believe that was all, and it helped that i didn't townread her.

but you're misinterpreting 1017, Taylor wasn't a townlean there, it was just a small thing i in isolation found towny.

moving to Puppy... where you can again picture me clicking on the link you gave where i say i scumread Puppy's posts, and then keep scrolling as i try to find the posts in question and reverse-engineer what i was talking about.

pedit: oh god i hope all of that isn't questions for me