Mafiascum.net

Annnnnd I'm biased because I just saw scum counterclaim town protection in 2272 and die for it.

In post 1648, Elsa Jay wrote:Because if I claimed Bodyguard in a later post then immediately after someone claimed Doctor I would be called a liar.

I come back from YouTube and see that shit.

I... don't think that would have been the case?

Did you crumb this anywhere?

UNVOTE: Elsa

In post 1649, Crescent wrote:

In post 1644, Alexcellent wrote:

In post 1640, gibus wrote:VOTE: BBT

I think Elsa is the play. If wagon grows on BBT I will move there, but with a bit over half a day left, it's not happening.

I would say I echo this sentiment. I'm less on the "automatically give BBT a night" as I was before, though.

This feels like a "scum was blindsided by this claim" kind of moment. Anyways, Elsa's wagon (the 3 of us if Gibus comes back) is almost certainly clean, and Gibus either has 2 scum on him or Gibus/Vivax is split 1/1. No way is this Gibus train pure. I feel like scum's been fighting for this train all day.

I agree about the Gibus train.

I do have one problem with Elsa's claim though.

The redacted seems to insinuate yet another power role that hasn't been claimed. This makes at least 5 town power roles. For a setup that has to 2+1, that seems like a lot of power.

Damnit Cres stop focusing on other games and play with me.

Alexcellent wrote:

In post 1648, Elsa Jay wrote:Because if I claimed Bodyguard in a later post then immediately after someone claimed Doctor I would be called a liar.

I come back from YouTube and see that shit.

I... don't think that would have been the case?

Did you crumb this anywhere?

UNVOTE: Elsa

My immediate first post this game specifically mentioned me dying night one.

I guarded Eira if you were curious. Regret it completely since I listened to Cres talking about scum killing one of those 2 and went with the one I townread. Would've been on Clidd otherwise I guess.

Detective+Vig+Gibus+Elsa+Redacted = 5.

I find it curious why Elsa would just sit there and accept Gibus' claim.

Because if [Redacted] is either Doctor or Detective or possibly for scum's Roleblocker I'm not outting that shit until they kill me and see it on my card.

I'm not giving anymore hints on what it actually is.

One of these two is probably scum... But the correct course of action is obvious.

UNVOTE: Elsa

We don't vote either of them today. Rushing votes/reads onto protection claims late in a day is not a good idea.

Tbf Gibus claiming this kinda fucked up everything in my head.

What are the odds of there being 2 protective roles? Like how far-fetched would that be?
I'm also assuming scum probably have some big powers.

If he just claimed pure Doctor I would've immediately just said kill him, but the checker part is what's got me.

Alexcellent wrote:What are the odds of there being 2 protective roles? Like how far-fetched would that be?
I'm also assuming scum probably have some big powers.

If there's a Vigilante it's significantly higher chance for multiple. one for town and scum. Though a Bodyguard for scum makes little sense in the long run as that just means it would die instead of their teammate?

Though considering I'm also an enabler, and the mention of a checker implies Roleblocker, now I don't know.

Combined doctor/checker is such a specific thing that I'm inclined to believe it. But at the same time, yeah, it can be manufactured. I'm way more inclined to believe something with more detail like that than if he just came out and said "I'm the doctor!"

That feels like a big risk for scum!Elsa to come out with that as a counter claim though, especially if we're believing there's only 2 scum left... and I kind of am leaning towards buying it at least for today.

Either case, I agree that neither Elsa or Gibus should be the launch today.

In post 1658, Elsa Jay wrote:Tbf Gibus claiming this kinda fucked up everything in my head.

You both claiming what you did completely changed the scope of the game and the game doesn't have enough time to process those changes. Rushing this process is the single dumbest thing a town can do here. There are things I dislike about both the claims.

I do have one very interesting question about meta here, given what you both claimed. From my experience, games tend to avoid having both a doctor and a bodyguard in them to avoid the conflict of them both protecting the same target who gets shot. People argue whether or not the BG should die in the process (I'm of the belief that it does, because it prevents the shot from hitting the target in the first place, and therefore the Doctor does nothing).

How do these two roles you guys have claimed interact here? I suspect the Wiki is not going to be much help.

Actually yeah. If we have a vig, then there's potential for multiple night kills, I follow the logic of multiple protection roles to try and counter balance that.

VOTE: BBT prefer this over Vivax.

Bodyguard dies instead of the target. Doctor just prevents the target from dying. If we both somehow got on someone? I want to assume I die anyway as doc would have to heal me? Or because the target wasn't going to die I don't step in to die instead, meaning we both live?

Idunno. It's a rare interaction and sometimes Mods get minor lee-way in deciding it.

In post 1665, Elsa Jay wrote:Bodyguard dies instead of the target. Doctor just prevents the target from dying. If we both somehow got on someone? I want to assume I die anyway as doc would have to heal me? Or because the target wasn't going to die I don't step in to die instead, meaning we both live?

Idunno. It's a rare interaction and sometimes Mods get minor lee-way in deciding it.

And this is why I want to know what's actually supposed to happen if both of these claims were true and this interaction occurred.

As always, including multiple protective roles in the game can lead to broken role combinations. Doctor+Bodyguard can lead to circular protections, as can Bodyguard+Bodyguard. If you are going to include these combinations in your game, make sure you specify how they work - presumably in a way that does not allow them to cross-protect successfully.

Because this does not help. At all.

Technically speaking if someone with the actual role of bodyguard or doctor asked the host about how they would "theoretically" interact with the other role, it is mandatory for the host to respond. It does not confirm the other role exists, but it confirms what interaction would occur if it did.

It makes little sense for there to be a Mafia Bodyguard, as they have no reason to target anyone except a scumpartner; and a Vigilante who finds that their kill resolved on a different scum than they expected can simply shoot their previous target again.

As always, including multiple protective roles in the game can lead to broken role combinations. Doctor+Bodyguard can lead to circular protections, as can Bodyguard+Bodyguard. If you are going to include these combinations in your game, make sure you specify how they work - presumably in a way that does not allow them to cross-protect successfully.

Directly from the Bodyguard Mafiascum wiki page if these help my case at all. The second one is literally the same thing Cres asked to so it's fair. But it seems like it'll end in a way where we can't cross protect probably.

In post 1668, Elsa Jay wrote:

It makes little sense for there to be a Mafia Bodyguard, as they have no reason to target anyone except a scumpartner; and a Vigilante who finds that their kill resolved on a different scum than they expected can simply shoot their previous target again.

As always, including multiple protective roles in the game can lead to broken role combinations. Doctor+Bodyguard can lead to circular protections, as can Bodyguard+Bodyguard. If you are going to include these combinations in your game, make sure you specify how they work - presumably in a way that does not allow them to cross-protect successfully.

Directly from the Bodyguard Mafiascum wiki page if these help my case at all. The second one is literally the same thing Cres asked to so it's fair. But it seems like it'll end in a way where we can't cross protect probably.

Cross protect would imply two roles that can protect each other at 100% rate without dying. It doesn't imply what happens if those specific two roles go after the same target.

The existence of a scum rb should solve that, no?

Ok anyway that's enough on this topic

I'm going to have lunch and go for a walk.

@Elsa, I see you still have your vote on Gibus, do you have an alternative place for your vote?

In post 1654, Elsa Jay wrote:Damnit Cres stop focusing on other games and play with me.

Alexcellent wrote:

In post 1648, Elsa Jay wrote:Because if I claimed Bodyguard in a later post then immediately after someone claimed Doctor I would be called a liar.

I come back from YouTube and see that shit.

I... don't think that would have been the case?

Did you crumb this anywhere?

UNVOTE: Elsa

My immediate first post this game specifically mentioned me dying night one.

I guarded Eira if you were curious. Regret it completely since I listened to Cres talking about scum killing one of those 2 and went with the one I townread. Would've been on Clidd otherwise I guess.

Thought you were crumbing vig in your first post.

In post 1673, gibus wrote:

In post 1654, Elsa Jay wrote:Damnit Cres stop focusing on other games and play with me.

Alexcellent wrote:

In post 1648, Elsa Jay wrote:Because if I claimed Bodyguard in a later post then immediately after someone claimed Doctor I would be called a liar.

I come back from YouTube and see that shit.

I... don't think that would have been the case?

Did you crumb this anywhere?

UNVOTE: Elsa

My immediate first post this game specifically mentioned me dying night one.

I guarded Eira if you were curious. Regret it completely since I listened to Cres talking about scum killing one of those 2 and went with the one I townread. Would've been on Clidd otherwise I guess.

Thought you were crumbing vig in your first post.

If you thought she was vig why was she in your elim pool/why did you vote her when vig was confirmed