Mini 783: Cowboy Bebop Mafia - Game Over, Space Cowboy


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Post Post #1675 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:46 am

Post by Zilla »

Honestly, I don't know how we were supposed to contend with that Crime Boss power.
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Post Post #1676 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:47 am

Post by Zilla »

Also: we were all totally done for from the end of Day 2 onward.
Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele
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Post Post #1677 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:49 am

Post by Zilla »

Also also: This game is going to hurt my scum meta so much. I played that to the hilt.
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Post Post #1678 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:50 am

Post by ZEEnon »

Good game everyone. I was pretty sure hohum (Korlash) and Xtoxm were town, and I was right, yay.
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Post Post #1679 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:52 am

Post by VP Baltar »

This game was a lot of fun even though it was basically impossible for the scum team to win once the Crime Boss passing down plan came into effect. Jahudo, was this something you had considered when you made the game/was there a way for the scum team to get around it that we didn't realize?

Vi played really well and I wish we had killed her on N1. Things might have gone slightly differently then.
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Post Post #1680 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:54 am

Post by Jahudo »

I'll give more notes when the USA / Brazil match is done but I can tell you that VP Baltar could have still won because the Crime Boss role would not have transferred from Gorrad. The mod note (which I'm not sure I remembered to give Korts) was that the role "weakened" after 2 transfers.

Still I will be the first to admit I made alot of "confirmable" roles that Xtoxm, Juls, Vi and ZEEnon took advantage of by claiming early. I did not expect that :)

The scum team had an interesting suggestion that Juls (miller) could not be Crime Boss and VP Baltar (godfather) could be crime boss. That was not in my mod notes however.
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Post Post #1681 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:03 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Ha, my weakened flavor was semi-correct! I would have been ok with all of the town powerroles if the scum would have had something better to balance it out with or at least some way to counteract the DV more proactively.

I can understand how the null-vote could have been beneficial to the team, but in a lot of ways it didn't do much for us.

Oh well, I enjoyed playing with everyone a lot and didn't really have any point where I wasn't excited to check and post in this game.

Zilla, this game totally screwed up my read of you in Pale Moon. I really think that is why I jumped to the conclusion of you and myk as a team. I think we should nom you for the title of permanent bus driver!There were some exchanges D1 where I thought you were honestly going to try and get me lynched.
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Post Post #1682 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:12 am

Post by don_johnson »

my apologies to the scum team. honestly i think the set-up could have gone either way. first post miller claim was excellent move, and town in general played really well as a unit. personally, i feel like i let my team down in this one. i should have taken the lynch day 2 instead of bussing, or at least pushed it off and tried to get a mislynch. rhinox was playing good scum and his ability(lack thereof) would have been awfully useful had it been there the last day. i.e. it could have been used to mislynch someone claiming the "boss" ability. egocentrically, i went for self preservation because i think i'm good scum, but this game was humbling. sorry, rhino, you were playing excellent. day 3, the self hammer backfired and seemed to offer town points to both juls and gorrad. in short, i am sorry guys.

on the bright side, i loved the cast and had an absolute blast in this one. always entertaining to read.
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Post Post #1683 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:26 am

Post by Korts »

RIP Space Cowboy.
scumchat never die
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Post Post #1684 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:33 am

Post by Jahudo »

Here's everyone's role PMs. I'll let the Mafia and Masons decide if they want to release QuickTopics.

Mafia Role PMs

You are
Spike Spiegel
, a bounty hunter on the Bebop along with
don_johnson, Zilla, and Rhinox
. Your martial arts are best described like a river, always flowing and never breaking. Do you understand? Yeah, as if.

You are the
Mafia Godfather
. At night you can talk with your fellow bounty hunters on this QuickTopic. Anyone of you can perform the night kill by PM’ing the mod. Additionally, at night you as Godfather are immune from investigation scans.

You win when your team can no longer be lynched or killed.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
You are
Jet Black
, a former cop at the ISSP on Ganymede but now you’re a full time bounty hunter with
VP Baltar, Zilla, and Rhinox.
You are the black dog and when you bite… you don’t let go.

You are a
Mafia Goon
. At night you can talk with your fellow bounty hunters on this QuickTopic. Anyone of you can perform the night kill by PM’ing the mod.

You win when your team can no longer be lynched or killed.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
You are
Faye Valentine
, a bounty hunter on the Bebop with
VP Baltar, don_johnson, and Rhinox.
You don’t remember much about your past but while you may look 23, you’re actually closer to 77 years old. Wait, don’t punch me! I’m sorry, I’m sorry!

You are a
Mafia Goon
. At night you can talk with your fellow bounty hunters on this QuickTopic. Anyone of you can perform the night kill by PM’ing the mod.

You win when your team can no longer be lynched or killed.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
You are
Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV
but most people just call you
Ed
. You’re a net diver from Earth that’s just having fun on the Bebop with
VP Baltar, don_johnson, and Zilla.


You are a
Voteless Mafia Goon
. During the day you are allowed to vote, and it will show up on vote counts, but your vote will never count in a lynch decision. At night you can talk with your fellow bounty hunters on this QuickTopic. Anyone of you can perform the night kill by PM’ing the mod.

You win when your team can no longer be lynched or killed.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.


Town Role PM's

Given to ZEEnon, then charlatanYou are the (Town Aligned)
Crime Boss
of the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. Your vote has the power of two votes, although the second vote will not be shown on the vote count.

If you die you must PM the mod and select who you want to succeed you as Crime Boss. Please rank every living player in order of who you want the most to be the Crime Boss, to who you want the least to be the Crime Boss. The top living townie will become the next Crime Boss. Crime Bosses cannot be confirmed in-game by the Mod. If you choose a town power role, they will keep their power role in addition to becoming the next Crime Boss. Both powers would be revealed upon their death.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
Given to Xtoxm (rep. ShadowGirl) and PokerFaceYou are an
Elder Mason (Town Mason) with PokerFace/ShadowGirl
in the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. You can talk to each other at night in this QuickTopic. While you know he/she is town, this fact cannot be confirmed in-game by the Mod.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
Given to charlatanYou are a
Soldier (Town Watcher)
in the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. When you target someone at night you will learn who, if anyone, also targeted that person that night. You will not learn what actions they took.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
Given to ViYou are a
Corrupt ISSP Agent (Town Interrogator = (Town Flavor Cop + RB))
assisting the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. Each night you may target a player and learn if they watch
Big Shot
or not (only bounty hunters watch Big Shot). You will also block your target from performing a night action.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
Given to JulsYou are a
Corrupt Bounty Hunter (Town Romani = (Town Commuter + Miller))
assisting the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. For eons you’ve wandered the stars looking for a big, fat bounty. It’s your way. Unfortunately you might be mistaken for the wrong bounty hunter.

Every odd numbered night you will be protected from getting killed. Commuting will not prevent other actions from occurring on you. If an investigative role targets you, they will receive a guilty result.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
Given to Korlash (rep. Hohum, rep. Forbiddanlight) and GorradYou are a
Vanilla Townie
in the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. All you have is your vote and your wits.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Here is the game thread: Link (in the sub-forum: Coney Island)
Confirm in thread and start posting. Good luck.
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Post Post #1685 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:36 am

Post by hohum »

Sorry for falling out of this game like I did. I ran into some major IRL issues.
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Post Post #1686 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:43 am

Post by Jahudo »

Night Actions

Night 1

Rhinox kills Xtoxm
(success)

Vi cop investigates and roleblocks Gorrad
(gets innocent)

charlatan watches don_johnson
(nobody targets)

Juls is NK safe
Xtoxm is killed

Night 2

don_johnson kills Vi
(success)

Vi cop investigates and roleblocks Korlash
(unsuccessful, because he died)

charlatan watches don_johnson
(nobody targets)

Vi is killed

Night 3

VP Baltar kills PokerFace
(success)

charlatan watches PokerFace
(sees VP Baltar target PokerFace)

Juls is NK safe
PokerFace is killed

Night 4

VP Baltar kills charlatan
(success)

charlatan watches VP Baltar
(unsuccessful, because he died)

charlatan is killed

--------------------------
Crime Boss orders of inheritance:


ZEEnon

1. charlatan (successful)
2. don_johnson
3. Xtoxm
4. Zilla
5. PokerFace
6. Vi

charlatan

1. VP Baltar (unsuccessful)
2. Gorrad (successful)
3. Korlash
4. Juls
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Post Post #1687 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:01 am

Post by Jahudo »

My main goal was to create a 12 player setup with 4 mafia and make it close. I needed a way for the town to stay in the game past two mislynches so I started to mess with voting power.

The Voteless Goon gave the scum team a larger influence to guide discussion but the Crime Boss gave the town team a chance to stay competitive after a few mislynches.

The Romani was supposed to make the miller role more enjoyable for the player because they were also a commuter, but by random chances I think Juls got the one role she didn't like. I think she played it very well by claiming early and dealing with the suspicion it would naturally create.

All roles were randomly picked and it was a nice coincidence that the scum team was lined up by gender except for Rhinox (although I was smiling when I sent his role PM away :D).

If I could change one thing, it would be to make the Masons unconfirmed to each other. I didn't expect the masons to claim early, or claim to be a partner to anyone other than their mason buddy for that matter.

----------------------------

As far as the play is concerned, I thought the scum team did an excellent job distancing each other from the very beginning, and they didn't underestimate the town just because they were a four person team. They bussed when needed and I think if the power roles were favoring the town side, the scum could have dictated three straight mislynches.

Vi did some great scumhunting and I think she or someone else called most, if not all, the scum at one point. Xtoxm made an unusual gambit by claiming partners with ZEEnon, and while I still don't understand it, the play worked out for the best by directing the scumkill and allowing PokerFace to be confirmed townie for a day.

This was a really fun game to watch because scumhunting was at a high level from the very beginning and people didn't flake or self-destruct. I think this was one game where replacements and inactivity did not disturb the flow of the game or hurt one side or the other.

Good job everyone.

----------------------------

@Pokerface: Did you remember us talking about the Romani and Interrogator roles in the Best Mafia Roles thread in MD?
Jahudo wrote:
PokerFace wrote:You know I think we can still come up with something better and call it Romani. Give me some time and take tyour time and I'm sure we'll get something really good.
How about a miller with a hider or commuter power?

Is there a comparable role to the Jailkeeper (protect and roleblock combo) that is instead an investigative (flavor preferably or alignment) and roleblock combo? Maybe a Police Lieutenant or Chief of Police?
The Interrogator was the only role from my smalltown to make it into this game, sorry Vi :D

@Korts: Should I post our game setup thread to show how the theme and flavor evolved?
Last edited by Jahudo on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1688 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:03 am

Post by Korlash »

See Juls, sometimes you just have to trust that Korlash has a plan! Hurah!

Anyway, pretty good game from everyone. I really don't like the distribution of power here. All these town powers and scum got nothing? Just doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Plus the whole town has a DV and instead of balancing out with an equal power, scum got a voteless goon... It just seemed one sided from the get go. Unless I'm missing something.
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Post Post #1689 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:09 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Jahudo wrote:If I could change one thing, it would be to make the Masons unconfirmed to each other. I didn't expect the masons to claim early, or claim to be a partner to anyone other than their mason buddy for that matter.
Heh, I don't think there is anyway you could have predicted that.
Jahudo wrote:@Korts: Should I post our game setup thread to show how the theme and flavor evolved?
I would definitely like to see it if Korts is cool with it.

@Juls and Korlash--Honestly speaking, did I have any chance on the last day of convincing you I wasn't scum? Did my arguments sway you at all?
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Post Post #1690 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:13 am

Post by Jahudo »

The cop/rb combo was countered with the godfather.

I thought the influence of a four man scumteam would outweigh the influence of a 8 man town team that for however long did not know they had a double voter.

Maybe I should have been more vague in the double voter role PM about how/if the power transferred, like maybe tell the double voter that scum could inherit the role even if I knew they couldn't. Once ZEEnon claimed the town had a way to take control of the game.
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Post Post #1691 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:22 am

Post by Zilla »

Juls lined us all up on day 2. At the time I was accused of lurking, it was because I was in a complete stupor on how to deal with this game; we had no reasonable mislynches to go for. Sure we could have TRIED for a Juls mislynch, but at that point, doing so would have been suicide, unless we managed to WIFOM that the whole team couldn't possibly be on her case. Gorrad was a slight possibility for a day 2 lynch, but Vi had already investigated him, so that would also have gotten us fingered. I think my push on hohum/Korlash was the best strategy we had at that point. Pokerface, Charlatan, and Vi were too pro-town to lynch (Pokerface by mason claim more than action, though), and as evidenced by my hypo-case on Vi, there wasn't even enough traction to start a case on her.

Vi, you remind me of me when I play town. I am almost never lynched as scum, and there were only two times I was lynched as town; one from an insane PO claim, one from day 1 and nobody taking the game seriously. Conversely, I am almost always nightkilled by scum, usually by day 2.
Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele
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Post Post #1692 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:26 am

Post by Zilla »

Town could have won even without the mason claim, in my opinion, with the cop/RB and the method of confirming people as town when the crime boss died, AND that very same role being the doublevoter.

It wouldn't have been as much a problem if it wasn't the doublevoter that was more than protected. If we had a way to kill the doublevoter, which was in-thread confirmable via lynching, and the power that passed on wasn't as easily tracked as something that messed with the votecount, there would have probably been tons more games played with fakeclaiming receiving the power.

I honestly thought ZEEnon was lying about the "only passes to town" thing, and that he was just setting Xtoxm up like Xtoxm set him up to claim to try to catch scum.

BTW: scum quicktopic. http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/mAAivTpxAA8j this explains what I was thinking a little more clearly.
Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele
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Post Post #1693 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:28 am

Post by Zilla »

Also, you'll notice Charlatan wasn't our target because he agreed with us day 1, and we thought we could use his doublevoting to our advantage.
Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele
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Post Post #1694 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:25 am

Post by PokerFace »

Vi did some great scumhunting and I think she or someone else called most, if not all, the scum at one point.
I don't know if Vi did it too but I certainly did. Go back and read my day one play when I went after rhinox and said VP and Zilla were likly partners. only one of 4 scum I did not point at then was DJ.

In this game...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8537
...early into day 1, PokerFace was a mason and said Rishi and Iceman were one scum group and the other scum group was Muffin/Korts and Farside. He later changed his read to Muffin/korts and a lurker were the second scum group. PF was correct, Grimy was the lurker

In this game...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11344
...early into day 1, PokerFace was a mason and said Rhinox, Balter and Zilla were a scum pairing very early into day 1. On Day 2 many people noticed that DJ's claim was bull shit. The scum did contain all 4 of those people.

Conclusion: I need to trust my early day 1 reads more, and I need to be a mason in 4 scum games more often.

And before you even say it, NO I am not attempting to take credit. Just like the first game where I was mason I lurked alot due to some real life issues and vacations. So yay my reads were accurate then off when I changed some opinions late day 1 early day 2, then they were accurate again when rhinox and DJ were gone after. But still I was not as helpful or as useful as I wanted to be. And I still don't get why a bunch of people thought I was infering I had a name. I don't know how or where you guys got that logic. I'll admit to not reading the rules carefully to the extent I expected more Bebop characters in the game possibly as millers, but I don't see how any of that said i have a name myself. Perhaps the elder mason got confused in my head and I said something wrong. I'd apreciate anyone giving a sound explanation to the fiasco of why everyone read that wrongly

What won us that game was Vi, Char, and yes ZEEnon forced this game into lock down. Vi spoted the possibility of a voteless player very early. Its a damn good thing my crazy drunk plan wasn't tried. And the double voting confirmation getting handed to an investigation role caused great havoc. Keep char alive and he will watch you make a kill. Kill him and he confirms or investigates another player. There might have been too many confirmable roles in this game Jahudo. Vi and Char drove and caught some scum, ZEE made a good choice on who to send the crime boss stuff too.

GG everybody. Oh and sorry I didn't get enough time to participate in this game. Real life stuff and all. I so wanted to be involved in more korlash craziness since he is always funny. Him helping catch Zilla and VP likly means one thing... PF still owes Korlash. Damn it!

_________________
Jahudo wrote:
@Pokerface:
Did you remember us talking about the Romani and Interrogator roles in the Best Mafia Roles thread in MD?
Jahudo wrote:
PokerFace wrote:You know I think we can still come up with something better and call it Romani. Give me some time and take tyour time and I'm sure we'll get something really good.
How about a miller with a hider or commuter power?

Is there a comparable role to the Jailkeeper (protect and roleblock combo) that is instead an investigative (flavor preferably or alignment) and roleblock combo? Maybe a Police Lieutenant or Chief of Police?
:shock: I remember talking about it in that thread with Korts, but not with you. Me and Korts talked about a few possibilities but never discussed millers, comuters, or cops. I don't remember that quote from you there at all. That's crazy man. Would have been cool for me to catch and remember that but looks like I didn't need to.

_________________

@VP Balter,
I CAN think of 1 scenario where you could have won things in a 4 player end game like that.

Step 1: Get Korlash lynched <Not sure how you would pull this off
Step 2: No kill at night or fail to kill as a result of juls comuting from your kill
Step 3: Get Juls lynched <Gorrad didn't like Juls so maybe that would work
Step 4: Kill Gorrad during the next night. You Win Yay!!

I'll admit that scenario sound impossible in some areas especially since you and gorrad were involved in a counter claim war but it was only thing I could think of.

_________________

Jahudo Setup was pretty good. I like how he subtracked one vote from the scum and gave town power to double vote. That was a nice twist that would have allowed us to mislynch one other player even though it was 8 on 4. To better balance the setup I would have made Vi just a cop and not a cop and a blocker. I would have made Faye a Mafia Roleblocker. And either got rid of the watcher or made me and xtoxm neighbors (Unconfirmed neighbors). You would of had to edit the masons flavor some hinting that perhaps one of us was ratting out the WTC to the bounty hunters, because calling us elder with relation to 3 old leaders would have likly made people think they were both still town even if they were neighbors.

You had some awesome flavor Jahudo all the way through. I like how I got drunk and tricked/arrested by Faye as you implied. The picture you hade up for when players were killed was a nice effect. The pic that should show up for Juls had she gone down should have been that fortune teller litle girl that went with Jet Black in one episode in search of her father. You could have found just about any gangster to be pics for the vanillas. In general this was a fantastic and fun game. I had fun and think both sides played really well. VP really had little conection to his buddies, and DJ didn't strike me as scum until his claim was crap. Rhinox and Zilla managed to fight off some suspicions placed on them at times so they did well too. A really well made, interesting, and fun game on all ends of the town and scum. I'm glad I was a part of it. Good way for me to come back into things at MS.

I'll pm Xtoxm and let him know the game is over. I got nothing wrong with posting what was said in our QT and if he has nothing wrong with it either I'll glad you should you all what the masons talked about.
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Post Post #1695 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:55 am

Post by Juls »

Yay! It was a fun game and I seriously thought I would be gone by town's hand on D1 or D2 and then felt for sure that scum would get rid of me on N4 so not to have a counter-claim battle with the crime boss ability and because I would have been commutable the following night.

Question for Jahudo...I considered proposing we mislynch Gorrad and have her pass her ability on to me since I could not be killed and then VP would have killed Korlash in night. Going into the next day it would have been me versus VP and I would have the Crime Boss ability. My question is, would the Crime Boss ability been passed down to me? I ultimately decided not to propose it because a) Gorrad hated me in this game and b) I was scared the power wouldn't pass down to me.

Another thing...I was very scared to claim Romani because in a previous game I had with Vi and Rhinox I was scum and claimed "gypsy". The first thing I noticed in the definition of a Romani was that a Romani was a gypsy.

This was one of the best games I have played. Besides the whole night-vig debacle and going emo on D1 I think I was reading people pretty good.

Finally....
VP Baltar wrote:@Juls and Korlash--Honestly speaking, did I have any chance on the last day of convincing you I wasn't scum? Did my arguments sway you at all?
Honestly, it was a good route to go by casting doubt in our head. Ultimately, it came down to my iso read of you and some weird choices you had made with your "bus driving". The Crime Boss ability was pretty powerful and I probably would not have killed off charlatan and took the chance that he would have watched the wrong person. Actually, looking back that would have been a good gamble because he watched you. Then you could have probably pushed my lynch since I had the miller role. But hind-sight is 20/20.
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Post Post #1696 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:07 pm

Post by Jahudo »

Had you guys mislynched day 5, the scum would have won the game by killing Gorrad. This is what I mean when I say the crime boss role got weakened:

Gorrad's Crime Boss Role PMcharlatan has passed on leadership of the White Tiger Crime Syndicate to you in his death.
The Crime Boss role is yours but has also been weakened now that it has been transferred twice.

Here is the modified role PM:
You are the (Town Aligned) Crime Boss of the White Tiger Crime Syndicate. Your vote has the power of two votes, although the second vote will not be shown on the vote count.

If you die your role will not transfer.

You win with the town when all threats to the town are eliminated.


-------------------

If you had gone to the Best Roles Idea thread looking for the Romani or Interrogator role I proposed before this game started, you would have found this Easter egg: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#1490160
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Post Post #1697 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:09 pm

Post by Korlash »

VP wrote:@Juls and Korlash--Honestly speaking, did I have any chance on the last day of convincing you I wasn't scum? Did my arguments sway you at all?
If you hadn't claimed crime boss sure. But when you started arguing Gorrad couldn't have a DV but also probably had a DV I knew you were full of it.
Juh wrote:Maybe I should have been more vague in the double voter role PM about how/if the power transferred, like maybe tell the double voter that scum could inherit the role even if I knew they couldn't. Once ZEEnon claimed the town had a way to take control of the game.
I think maybe not even telling the boss his power transferred. In the event of his death just ask him for a list out of the blue. It would at least keep a limit on how town can misuse it.
PokerFace wrote:GG everybody. Oh and sorry I didn't get enough time to participate in this game. Real life stuff and all. I so wanted to be involved in more korlash craziness since he is always funny. Him helping catch Zilla and VP likly means one thing... PF still owes Korlash. Damn it!
Ha ha... yeah... All is right with the universe...
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
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Post Post #1698 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:41 pm

Post by Vi »

Juls 1695 wrote:Another thing...I was very scared to claim Romani because in a previous game I had with Vi and Rhinox I was scum and claimed "gypsy". The first thing I noticed in the definition of a Romani was that a Romani was a gypsy.
I'm of vague Romani descent, so claiming one is
always
safe for me :D

Some of my own notes.
*For the love of all that's holy, Korlash and Gorrad. Learn to look/play pro-Town. PLEASE.
*I like how I backed off the Rhinox/Zilla busfest D1 by suddenly thinking they were both Town. Zilla asking "Uh... why?" was priceless in retrospect.
*This was the first game where I used a spreadsheet for vote analysis. That I managed to pick out VP Baltar and Zilla from it seems to suggest that there needs to be less discussion and more voting people in games (not that I don't say that already) and less second-guessing myself from my own department.
In other words, I am always right; listen to me :P

*Considering I wasn't quite sure what to make of the wording of Jahudo's default lynch rule, and that I never actually noticed until it was pointed out that the
(Largest Current Wagon)
was based on voting people and not voting power, I was actually surprised Rhinox flipped Voteless in the end. I second-guess myself waaaaay too often.
*VP Baltar was pretty much dead in LyLo because of the Crime Boss ability. Why the idea of a doublevoting scum was STILL in the air at the time is beyond me. (If VP Baltar somehow pulled out the win in this game, I know me and charlatan would have been upset...)
*About not having an RVS: Speaking as the Cop, I was feeling pretty pressured D1 after Juls claimed (meaning the whole time). I felt so sure I was giving something away somewhere. So for a while I regretted the decision. I changed my mind when Rhinox flipped scum, since he got the first two votes.
*Scum counterclaiming scum is a first for me. I really didn't expect it in a Mini.
*I'm glad Zilla liked my play in this game, but since dying I've picked up a job. I've had to alter what I do to fit into a much narrower timeframe than before, hence my sig (speaking to myself as well as others).
*
AMIGO!

*Also, thanks for introducing me to the source material, Jahudo. I probably wouldn't have ever seen it otherwise.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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Post Post #1699 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:42 pm

Post by PokerFace »

ha ha yay. Perhaps I don't truly owe you for bebop since this game was a team effor just like Clerks mafia. Those two definatly cancel each other out but I definatly still owe you Korlash for "Loser Mafia" and "The AiTP Mini Restarted"

At any rate, I talked to Xtoxm, so for you personal enjoyment here is the mason QT.
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/vskRaF7kUg53Q

At one point I tried to post in that QT and it blocked me from doing so. My posting had a lot of thread game links so I had to PM what I wanted to say to Xtoxm. Here are the contents of the pm port QT wouldn't let me make:
Ok assuming ZEENon skills is what it says it is, Charlaton will either be revealed as scum when DJ gets the power or Charlaton will be cleared.

Charlaton had some bad perhaps fruedian slips and I did have some difficulty reading him so a good choice by ZEE there.

If charlaton is scum I can see him paired with hohum. He was on Hohum for some crap reasons and vise versa so that can be distancing on both ends. But also when ZEEnon came clean Char said this:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 38#1684438
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 21#1684521
Char didn't vote Zeenon there and gave some slight reasons. and then
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52#1684752
He jumps off Hohum to ZEEnon for crap reasons. If he still genuinely suspected Hohum he would have stayed on him. He jumped off hohum at a time Hohum could have been preped for the gallows. Only way he would do that was as Hohum's partner.

I got a bad feeling this game does have 2 scum groups. I realize there was a Flavor disclaimer and all but there being one paragraph about Spike and Jet and then one about Ed and Faye makes me think the 4 main characters really are split into two groups. If char and hohum are group A than Vi and VP are Group B. Their jump on me together to run me up seemed Fake or Manufactured expecially on Vi's end since his reasons for droping of his cases on Rhinox and Zilla were BS. So what if they were all wall of texting. Vi's late unvote of me after he had already believed me looked bad too.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#1684686
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#1684709
Vi should have stayed on Rhinox and Zill if he was genuine and how he said he could get on hohum but never did when he already knew and understood the case on him at the start...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 61#1684261
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1684787
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69#1684869
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1684926
also seemed very telling. I could see a char, hohum, VI team or Vi with VP.

VP and Vi both had shit reasons for wanting to lynch ZEE. They seemed to believe the claim and that it would be passed on and yet still thought ZEE should be lynched. If ZEE is town than don't lynch him its that simple.

Vi clearly believing Zee yet wanting him dead
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#1684686
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18#1684718
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 36#1684736
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#1684909
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 49#1685049

Vp believing Zee yet wanting him dead.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 12#1684712
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 66#1684866
This^ looks like Like he wants to policy lynch ZEE and believes him
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 22#1684922
This last one^ is bad because his bottom remark is shatcasm. Its like he agrees with you that ZEE can't be masterfully scum and he wants to laugh at it sarcastically and only reason he'd do that is if he knew ZEE was not scum. And he does all this while voting ZEEnon. Talk about craplogic/scumremarks


If Vp isn't Vi's partner then it is Rhinox since Rhinox's view of Vi has been skewed for quite some time.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1684863
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 93#1684893
Vi's push of Zilla over Rhinox
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 44#1683644
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 48#1683648
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52#1683652
could be further evidence of Vi being with Rhinox


Summary: PF's Current list from Scum to Town:
Char
Hohum - Zilla summed up the case on him real well near deadline
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 02#1684802
Vi
VP
Rhinox
Gorrad - He is either Cop because he was certain there is one. Or scum for all the lurking and skewed reads of those that claimed, especially his read of Juls. He has said things that may have been buddying to some players. He has read me as town from the start so if he is cop, he won't check us
Zilla - seemed scum until deadline where she did alot for the town
DJ - seemed nuetral until deadline where he did alot for the town. His jump of Vi looked genuine
Juls = Obv town

Town is likly powerful and against 2 scum groups. A three man scum group with a dub voter goon is a bit strong while that dub voter being in one group and a GF in the other seems about right. Juls being a miller to slow a strong town also makes sence. Town likly has only 1-2 vanillas. This is all I got and can think of for right now.
Aside from all that me and Xtoxm also talked over aim for a bit. The following aim log is me and him chatting. This chat happened some hours BEFORE I wrote up that last pm the QT didn't like.
Noj Koor1584: yo
Xtoxm: hey pf!!
Xtoxm: i posted my main suspicions in the qt last night
Noj Koor1584: Yay I'm trying to catch up on whatr I missed before the deadline right now
Noj Koor1584: sorry i wasn't there
Xtoxm: its fine
Xtoxm: im guessing it means sucm got a dub voter tho
Xtoxm: i'll be annoyed at zee if he read his role wrong.
Noj Koor1584: me too
Noj Koor1584: charlaton getting double voting means he is town
Xtoxm: im inclined ot think zilla is town
Xtoxm: yes.
Noj Koor1584: ok. I'll catch up on the game entirly. then talk to you and then we can go from there.
Noj Koor1584: reading thread now. I think Vi is more likly scum than VP at the moment
Noj Koor1584: <<still reading. i'll throw final view in qt when I'm done
Xtoxm: yeh, he's my top pick atm. i could see a rhinox-vi scum actually.
Xtoxm: rhinox's response to our attempt to lynch vi was pretty poor
Noj Koor1584: Juls = obv town
Xtoxm: unfortunately.
Xtoxm: she still thinks im scum
Xtoxm: i hope the cop isnt retarded enough to check us
Noj Koor1584: yay rhinox did seem a little poor and fact he knows now how to act when you are mason gives me cause to think his belief in the claim was null
Noj Koor1584: i doubt a cop will
Xtoxm: a lot of people pushed it. i think if theres a cop it might be gorrad, and i dont think he would tho
Noj Koor1584: i think gorrad either is the cop or is scum. He seemed WAY too certain there was a cop and way he treated Zeenon and juls feels off. Either he is scum or is the cop
Noj Koor1584: wow. I typed that without reading what you typed.
Xtoxm: lol.
Noj Koor1584: seems we both think gorrad would be it. heh heh. and yay I doubt he would check. at least his active lurkage should keep him alive til tomorrow as long as a vig doesn't wack him
Xtoxm: i thought the way he spoke about zee at the end of the day was pro-town
Xtoxm: his failure to participate in dealdine can be scummy, but a cop would also have reason to
Xtoxm: you got a read on hohum?
Noj Koor1584: some of it felt a little wierd to me. I'll post my final view on him in the QT shortly. him being cop after that certainty makes sence and active lurkage would protect him from mafia kills
Noj Koor1584: that was pretaining to gorrad
Xtoxm: ok.
Noj Koor1584: i am a little confused on hohum and dj. I am having trouble getting a good feed on them. hohum is acting like his old dcorbe self except i never seen him as scum so i can't tell, and DJ hasn't really done anything to convince me either way
Xtoxm: i think he looked pro-town at the deadline.
Xtoxm: and he's been after vi all day
Noj Koor1584: well I'll keep reading and see if that solves things for me
Xtoxm: zilla's attempt to balance the votes and clear Zee looked real.
Noj Koor1584: <<not lookingat that part yet
Noj Koor1584: Vi said "If we lynch ZEEnon and he's Town, there's no loss of role... although the fact that he's replacing out means it's rather possible that the mod may cancel that ability." That sentence sounds like some BS since no mod would delete a skill when someone replaced
Xtoxm: mm, i have no idea what he was going on about there
Xtoxm: i didnt like vp's post (isolation:63) the one where he mentions his vote is locked.
Noj Koor1584: ok I'll take a good look at that
Noj Koor1584: i read 63. it does look scummy and not because of the locked phrase. He says...
Xtoxm: yeh, not cos of that, that was jsut to identify it
Noj Koor1584: "Zeenon is a much better choice, particularly considering he has said his role would transfer upon death. Meta about him lying as town doesn't excuse out and out scummy play in this game, even if you think he would go along with the mason claim for it." That sounds like he is calling for a policy lynch and yet also belieies Zeenon
Noj Koor1584: like he saying lynch him on LAL. I don't care if he is now telling the truth
Xtoxm: maybe. i dont like how he pushes for a lynch based on his role transferring, thats not a reason to lynch someone, or make them more liekly to be scum. and i fail to see how zeenon was at all scummy.
Xtoxm: LAL is a fallacious argument and a poor policy lynch.
Noj Koor1584: i agree with your view of VP there. only thing that seemed scummy about ZEE was him going along with it. I suppose i can understand it now from the perspective you point out on page 33, but I guess i just wouldn't have went along with the fake since I am not a player like him
Noj Koor1584: what you said makes sence for ZEE but it wouldn't make sence if I was in his shoes
Xtoxm: i dont see why any scum would back me up
Xtoxm: and zee likes faking as town, i thought he would back me up.
Xtoxm: thats why i did it.
Xtoxm: if he was scum i thought he would call bs on me
Noj Koor1584: yes i understand that since it characterizes ZEE
Xtoxm: tho i was p much certain he was town by that point
Xtoxm: ive played with zee several times, i think ive got a pretty good meta on him
Xtoxm: its null now hes dead anyway. shame.
Noj Koor1584: that's what I gathered from you there
Noj Koor1584: I however I am a fake claim expert as scum. I have successfully faked mason and won as scum. As town I would have come forward since I only fake as town in extremem situations. As scum I would have used and abused your lie since I have pulled off alot of good fakes in the past
Xtoxm: oh, ok.
Xtoxm: well it seems like you'd be caught as soon as i died
Xtoxm: i dont see how itd be any type of good move for scum
Xtoxm: you'd just have to say no, and id be the lynch for d1
Noj Koor1584: if you were lynched and come up mason I don't know what would have happened
Xtoxm: well i mean if u were scum and didnt know
Noj Koor1584: if I hid under it I think I could do a couple of things like shoot you night 1 and make myself look confirmed
Xtoxm: you'd not think i was a mason with someone else right
Noj Koor1584: hmm ok maybe you are right there
Noj Koor1584: still I think I would at least consider hiding behind you lie as scum for alittle bit because it is something I'd want to exploit assuming i could exploit it
Noj Koor1584: I'd take time to see if it was good for me and then act for the best
Xtoxm: i think it would remove any chance of you survivng to the end.
Noj Koor1584: if I kept you alive to I could exploit you and the claim for quite some time. But you are right that if you died and any real mason with you died. I'd be in trouble
Noj Koor1584: when I got into trouble my team could benefit from things then, my scum buddies can buss me like hell and get free tickets to the end should no one catch the bus
Noj Koor1584: just a thought though. I'll pick up where I left off reading the game now
Noj Koor1584: there is one think that hohum said that bothers me
Noj Koor1584: If xtoxm claimed mason and lied, and ZEEnon happily went along with the lie, then they're both fucking stupid, but I still don't buy the claim.
Xtoxm: yeh, i would think scum would cotton on to a mason fake claim a lot more quickly than town.
Xtoxm: wish he'd got lynched >.>
Noj Koor1584: maybe. its just its like he says it could be fake. And that makes them dumb. he doesn't say that alone makes either of you scum
Noj Koor1584: sorry I wasn't there to help you with that but at least we now know there could be a scum double voter
Xtoxm: mm
Noj Koor1584: and maybe ZEEnons role passing will catch someone
Xtoxm: or clear someone
Noj Koor1584: yep
Xtoxm: clearing char would be useful, and obv so would catching him
Xtoxm: so that was a good chice by zee
Noj Koor1584: yep
Xtoxm: think he had better choices for no.2
Noj Koor1584: char voting Zee over Hohum at the end did seem off
Noj Koor1584: DJ's jump on vi at the end does look kinda genuine
Xtoxm: yeh
Xtoxm: i dont understand why any town role would have voted zee
Xtoxm: and actually, char was very quiet at the end there
Xtoxm: could be char-hohum
Noj Koor1584: char votting Zeenon over hohum when char didn't vote Zee for first coming clean looks bad. Char and hohum could be partner
Noj Koor1584: oh shit we did it again!
Xtoxm: lol
Noj Koor1584: this masonry = real fun
Xtoxm: hehe
Noj Koor1584: hmm... the flavor early on is divided into 2 paragraphs... paragraph one mentions spike and Jet. Paragraph 2 mentions ed and faye. The mod is ein. If there are 2 scum groups I wonder if char and hohum are one group and VP and Vi are another
Xtoxm: it could be a possibility
Noj Koor1584: VP and Vi jumping on me seemed bad scum team up and the two of them wanting to lynch ZEE for his role even if he is town while criticizing each other for that statement...REEKS!
Xtoxm: town does seem quite powerful
Noj Koor1584: yay. make sence we would a get a miller to be slowed down
Noj Koor1584: there is probably only 1 or two nillas
Xtoxm: we prob dont have much in the way of protection
Xtoxm: seeing as juls has commution
Noj Koor1584: you might be right there
Xtoxm: char has actually pushed hohum today
Xtoxm: cant rember how hard
Xtoxm: but he voted him close to deadline
Noj Koor1584: yay and then jumped on ZEE without firm abandon. I smell he was bad distancing
Xtoxm: ok
Noj Koor1584: damn. read this post http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69#1684869 Vi's view of hohum looks skewed. I am really starting to think 2 scum groups now. Vi & VP. Hohum and char
Noj Koor1584: <<wishes he had lynched hohum and not been afk
Xtoxm: nah it was zilla's fault. she changed to hohum right at the end after dj secured a hohum lynch
Noj Koor1584: <<Still reading. I'll see if that is correct. but right now I am feeling 2 groups with that read out
Noj Koor1584: yep vi is scum
Noj Koor1584: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#1684909
Noj Koor1584: more crap logic and desire to lynch ZEE thought believing his claim
Xtoxm: mm
Xtoxm: yeh i find it hard to believe town being on zee's wagon at the end there
Noj Koor1584: Vp = scum
Noj Koor1584: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 22#1684922
Noj Koor1584: he says "something like that..." when you mention If ZEE non is scum he is master. that statement looks fake like he knows Zee is not scum
Xtoxm: yeh i think those are good choices
Xtoxm: i didn't really think much of that in itself
Xtoxm: however vp made a lot of inconsequential posts at deadline there
Noj Koor1584: the statement "something like that" sounds like VP agrees with you. If he agrees with your view that ZEE can't be really good scum, then why was VP voting ZEE?
Xtoxm: well i took it as sarcasm from him
Noj Koor1584: still looks like a tell to me
Noj Koor1584: I've seen sarcasm be expressed as scum tells before
Xtoxm: ah right.
Xtoxm: i tend to use it as town
Xtoxm: (and scum)
Noj Koor1584: same here since i like to make jokes but when it is sarcasm directly related to the view of a player it definatly pings my radar
Xtoxm: ok, if you say so
Xtoxm: i could see that comment form town personnally, but he's still a good scum pick
Noj Koor1584: well I'm calling him on it in the game and if his response to it is poor then I'm taking him to the gallows
Xtoxm: ok.
Xtoxm: getting juls/zilla on your side could be hard work
Noj Koor1584: maybe
Noj Koor1584: woah shit hold up. DJ is not first on ZEE list to get the power. Char still is!
Noj Koor1584: "Alright, seriously. The first list I posted is the list that I am going to send to the mod.
The one with charlatan first because he is the most scummy to me.
charlatan: I suggest you start thinking of what a Crime Boss would work like. "
Xtoxm: yepp
Xtoxm: thats why its so useful
Xtoxm: we'll find out char's alignment
Xtoxm: supposedly
Xtoxm: dj, im really thinking is town, now.
Noj Koor1584: if char is scum then hohum is scum and the should be lynched back to back. then we can go after vi and vp
Noj Koor1584: yep i too think DJ is town
Xtoxm: and im cool with him getting the dub vote, he looks a good player
Noj Koor1584: him dub voter would help us lynch vi..
Xtoxm: yeh
Xtoxm: but if dj gets the vote
Xtoxm: char gets lynched
Xtoxm: thats got potential to end the day quick, whihc could help scum
Xtoxm: i dont think you'll die tonight, but theres a good chance the night after
Noj Koor1584: yep. Giant QFT all that!
Xtoxm: so i'd rathr char be town and get the vote so u can push this 2moz
Noj Koor1584: if char is town I'm goin g after vi otherwise i'm going after char while stating all my other views so town can get scum later.
Xtoxm: thing is, town never listen to dead townies
Xtoxm: and i really cant see juls going with it
Noj Koor1584: it happens sometimes. maybe we'll get lucky with players that aren't as closeminded as juls
Xtoxm: i need to start cooking tea now, its getting pretty late here. i'll be in and out, i'll respond to stuff when im here tho
Noj Koor1584: ok. I'll throw some of this in a file and solid read out and my 4 scum picks (VI, VP, hohum, char) in the QT
Noj Koor1584: ok finished reading. nothing has changed. those are my views. I'll save this and post solid stuff in the QT. not sure how to go about testing if char can double vote. easiest way is if DJ claims to have it tomorrow then we know char doesn't have it. And if that happens then lynch char and hohum. The vi and vp. that's all I got and best plan
Noj Koor1584: I'm gonna take a nap since i got bad sleepage last night and then I'll post in the QT
Xtoxm: ok.
Xtoxm: yeh i think if he claims he got it, thats good enough
Xtoxm: if no one claims it, and its silent, im not sure what we can do
Xtoxm: i guess we'll have to put someone at L-2
Xtoxm: and see if char hammers with his vote
Xtoxm: and have to make sure the possible sucm dub voter isnt there
Xtoxm: no one from zee's wagon
Xtoxm: oh, crap
Xtoxm: that doesnt work
Xtoxm: char can be scum dub voter. hopefully someone will get pmed
Noj Koor1584: yep that's what i hope
Xtoxm: actually, given flavout its likely
Noj Koor1584: yep
Xtoxm: they'll prob be told theyre taking over the buisness or whatever
Noj Koor1584: i agree with xtoxm
Xtoxm: lol
once again gg all. this was alot of fun
When I joined this site I was a software tester for mobile applications and the song PokerFace was not yet written by Lady Gaga
Now I test lottery and gambling software. Its funny how my life has turned out. Somewhere a Time Traveler is laughing madly
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